Author Topic: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?  (Read 513 times)

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Offline stands2reason

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2019, 02:08:05 PM »
So the story, "Spanish speakers didn't by Nova's because it literally means 'no go' in Spanish" is false but it is somehow true because GM drove themselves into decline on account of mismanagement and hubris?

Sure, that's part of it. Like I said, the premise is true (Idiocracy-style, the brand/model name basically tells you if it's junk, or what the value proposition is) but the specific details (of this story) are all backwards or otherwise sarcastically twisted, definitely not literally true as stated. They are actually talking about white trash Americans (quote-unquote blue collar). (I don't really know if people really sarcastically say Mexican to mean this, but it sure sounds like it sometimes).

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2019, 02:59:34 PM »
Yeah none of that in any way means any part of the anecdote is true, even implicitly or metaphorically. Except for the extremely general (and not germane to the story) fact that GM management happened to also have other problems vaguely around the same time as the Nova story is supposed to have taken place.
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Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2019, 03:02:59 PM »
And no, no one telling the story is using "Mexican" as some veiled reference to poor Americans, because then the whole point about what the word means doesn't work.

Though if you're actually just parodying the conspiracy theory obsession with hidden meanings by pretending to find hidden meaning in the fake Nova anecdote, then well played.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline gebobs

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2019, 03:41:46 PM »
If Google Translate disagrees with the Spanish Royal Academy, you shouldn't go with the often absurd machine translator.

I'm not going with anything. Far be it for me to question your superior knowledge of the language. I know fark all about Spanish. I'm just reporting what I found.

Quote
Also, things have been sold with the "nova" name in Spanish-speaking countries for ages. No one thinks it means they don't go.

I don't buy that bit of nonsense one bit. Who the hell is going to not buy a car because of that? I mean, it was a crap American car from an era of particularly crap American cars. No conspiracy needed.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2019, 03:56:20 PM »
Here I was expecting this thread to be all about real esoteric conspiracist language batshittery like white supremacist dogwhistles, Pizzagate wordplay, sovereign citizen legalese, and David Wynn Miller, but instead we're getting the Chevy Nova and "George Orwell's 1984 is a conspiracy theory?!?

Come on, we can do  better than this.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:01:08 PM by John Albert »

Online Ah.hell

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2019, 04:30:15 PM »
Here I was expecting this thread to be all about real esoteric conspiracist language batshittery like white supremacist dogwhistles, Pizzagate wordplay, sovereign citizen legalese, and David Wynn Miller, but instead we're getting the Chevy Nova and "George Orwell's 1984 is a conspiracy theory?!?

Come on, we can do  better than this.
That is generally what I had in mind but hey, conversations are unpredictable.

" According to Miller, only nouns have legal authority" huh?

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2019, 04:47:04 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevy_II_%2F_Nova#Third_generation_(1968%E2%80%931974)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla_(E20)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#1971%E2%80%931973

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/ford_usa/mustang_1gen/mustang_1gen_base_fastback/1971.html
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/make/chevrolet_usa/chevy_ii_nova_3gen/chevy_ii_nova_3gen_coupe_ss/1968.html

Even the Mustang got 20 MPG, compared to 11 MPG for the Nova.

Ford and Toyota saw the writing on the wall. They figured out by now that cars were "unsafe at any speed", and petroleum was going to be a "big deal". GM made an overweight boat, with thick steel, and a big engine to compensate. With literally the worst possible timing, and it has been a laughingstock since. As crappy as brakes & handling were back then, the Pinto & Corolla were functionally pretty similar in terms of usable size & even performance, but at least they weighed less, so they were probably safer.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:52:22 PM by stands2reason »

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2019, 05:32:01 PM »
Okay buddy I already realized you're playing a conspiracy theorist obsessed with finding hidden meanings in pointless anecdotes. You can stop now.

The story about Novas failing in Latin America due to linguistics is both completely false, and completely unrelated to gas mileage or the other subsequent issues GM faced.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2019, 05:36:56 PM »
Okay buddy I already realized you're playing a conspiracy theorist obsessed with finding hidden meanings in pointless anecdotes. You can stop now.

The story about Novas failing in Latin America due to linguistics is both completely false, and completely unrelated to gas mileage or the other subsequent issues GM faced.


Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2019, 06:43:40 PM »
I graduated high school in 1969, and I don't remember the Nova being considered "hot" right from the factory. We did drop a big block V8 in them when the opportunity presented itself, but the stock jobs were considered Mom cars.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2019, 06:53:44 PM »
I heard - and this is one of those things I don't recall the source for but I've "known" it since I was a kid - that the Mitsubishi Pajero has a problem similar to what is being described for the Nova. And that is that though the literal meaning of the word pajero in Spanish is "stallion", colloquially it is used to describe someone who is being a bit of a dickhead. Is this true? Has anyone else heard this?
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Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2019, 01:01:53 PM »
I wonder if this is why a lot of companies just make up words now for car names.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Online Ah.hell

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2019, 03:03:37 PM »
I wonder if this is why a lot of companies just make up words now for car names.
From what I gather it is part of it, cars and drugs, they want names that are evocative but not meaningful.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2019, 06:22:54 PM »
I graduated high school in 1969, and I don't remember the Nova being considered "hot" right from the factory. We did drop a big block V8 in them when the opportunity presented itself, but the stock jobs were considered Mom cars.

Good point. I think the Nova's reputation as a dirty whip started some time during the 1990s muscle car revival.

Online Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Language fixation by the more insane conspiracy theorists?
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2019, 08:00:22 PM »
I graduated high school in 1969, and I don't remember the Nova being considered "hot" right from the factory. We did drop a big block V8 in them when the opportunity presented itself, but the stock jobs were considered Mom cars.

Good point. I think the Nova's reputation as a dirty whip started some time during the 1990s muscle car revival.
Dunno. I didn't own a car from '89 to '09. No interest, no need.

You can think of the Nova as an early version of the Ford Fiesta. Sorta.
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