Author Topic: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)  (Read 1963 times)

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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2020, 01:09:57 AM »
I want to note that the "deep connection with the land" need not mean some quasi-mystical connection with nature in general, which is how I first read that sentence (primed by noble savage tropes no doubt), but rather probably refers to the straightforward fact that people whose ancestors have been living somewhere for tens of thousands of years probably have a stronger connection to that area than people who showed up a few centuries ago.

It should be noted that the Tasmanian government that is instituting this program is the same party that runs the country (the right-wing Liberal Party). That they are doing anything with the local indigenous is a step forward. Whether this is just a token action to get ahead of the opposition parties call to action here (Labor and the Greens), is still yet to be seen.

At least they are getting indigenous people and knowledge involved which is a surprisingly correct move from the Liberals.

Uncharacteristically so.
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2020, 02:21:58 AM »
I want to note that the "deep connection with the land" need not mean some quasi-mystical connection with nature in general, which is how I first read that sentence (primed by noble savage tropes no doubt), but rather probably refers to the straightforward fact that people whose ancestors have been living somewhere for tens of thousands of years probably have a stronger connection to that area than people who showed up a few centuries ago.

It should be noted that the Tasmanian government that is instituting this program is the same party that runs the country (the right-wing Liberal Party). That they are doing anything with the local indigenous is a step forward. Whether this is just a token action to get ahead of the opposition parties call to action here (Labor and the Greens), is still yet to be seen.

At least they are getting indigenous people and knowledge involved which is a surprisingly correct move from the Liberals.

Uncharacteristically so.

It may be a pure political move to appease certain left leaning members of the party and an Independent.

Tasmania's parliament is complicated at the moment. Liberal holds a 1 seat majority (13 to 12)
The speaker of the house continually crosses the floor to vote with Labor and the Greens on social and environmental issues. So Liberals were effectively a minority party on those issues.

To further complicate the Parliament, last year a Labor member retired. His position was taken by a woman who had run as a Labor candidate, but left the party after she disagreed with some of their policies.
Now an Independent, She has sided with the Liberal party on contentious issues, giving them back their 1 seat majority.

Crazy  ??? You'd think with a majority of women (13/12) the behaviour would be better. But it has got a lot worse.

Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2020, 02:40:34 AM »
NASA is predicting that in the coming days Western Australia will get smoke from the fires in the east coming from the west.  ??? The smoke will have done a full circuit of the Earth.
Though it may be too dilute to be visible.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-13/bushfire-smoke-plume-expected-to-lap-the-globe-nasa-says/11863298

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SmugTinyBushsqueaker-mobile.mp4

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EthicalMindlessAsiaticgreaterfreshwaterclam-mobile.mp4


Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2020, 12:11:01 AM »
At the risk of going off topic, by talking about the threads original topic of discussion.  ;)

The Tasmanian government is going to make three new specialist Aboriginal positions within the Tasmanian Parks and Wildlife Service.

Media release from the Premier Will Hodgman:

New support for cultural land management
Aboriginal cultural burning practices, undertaken for tens of thousands of years, have helped shape the Tasmanian landscape we know today.

In recognising this rich cultural and environmental understanding, the Tasmanian Government will be committing three new specialist Aboriginal positions within the Parks and Wildlife Service to further strengthen our understanding of and practice in land management and cultural burning methods, and the impact of fire on Aboriginal heritage.

The Government will also invite Aboriginal representation on the Statewide Fuel Reduction Steering Committee, to provide expert advice on fire management practices and to further assist agencies to learn from and utilise traditional management techniques.

We will also establish a pilot Grants Program with $100,000 available to support Tasmanian Aboriginal communities to engage in cultural burning practices within their local community area.

As our nation suffers from devastating bushfires, we should draw on the deep connection Tasmanian Aboriginals have with the land and share this knowledge in improved land management practices, to help reduce the impact of wildfires in our community.



This program was his last official act as Premier. A day later, with no hint of going, he resigns from being Premier and retires from politics.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-14/tasmania-premier-hodgman-announces-resignation/11867124

I told you this State's politics is crazy now  ???

Offline Gigabyte

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2020, 11:05:51 AM »
Actualy the thread is about Australia and ancient wisdom
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2020, 12:07:51 PM »
You know the fires in Australia are still burning, the smoke is literally circling the globe and the practices of the native population of using controlled burns to reduce the risk of fire are being reported in mainstream media.

While this is a very interesting conversation about the European technology compared to the technology of natives in the lands they colonized, so maybe it could be moved to its own thread?

Mods?

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

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Offline Rai

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 02:48:20 AM »
Moderator Comment Topic split,It wasn't easy and hope I didn't make a complete mess of it  :)

Do continue the off-topic discussions here: https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,51698.0.html
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 03:08:55 AM by Rai »
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Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2020, 03:02:58 PM »
Moderator Comment Topic split,It wasn't easy and hope I didn't make a complete mess of it  :)

Do continue the off-topic discussions here: https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,51698.0.html


This is exactly how controlled burns are supposed to work. You are using indigenous technology. You may even be appropriating it.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2020, 06:54:31 PM »
Moderator Comment Topic split,It wasn't easy and hope I didn't make a complete mess of it  :)

Do continue the off-topic discussions here: https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,51698.0.html

I'm confused.

What's off-topic for which thread? They seem to have same subject.

Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2020, 06:56:42 PM »
Actualy the thread is about Australia and ancient wisdom

The thread title specifically includes "indigenous fire management" and "Australian bush fires".

As such I would expect it to be mostly confined to ancient practises applicable to fire management.

Online gmalivuk

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2020, 07:07:19 PM »
The off topic discussion (about military technology and the European colonization of the Americas) has been split out from this thread.
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Offline Gigabyte

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2020, 01:12:10 PM »
Fire was/is probably the most important "tool" man has to use in the "war" against nature.  Or to be kind, to manage and try and control what we can in regards to nature.

The writings of Europeans who "discovered" lands free of Europeans frequently mention fire, and how the locals were always using it, something that seemed strange and/or dangerous to the explorers. 

http://learnline.cdu.edu.au/units/env207/introduction/history.html

In contrast to what the Europeans believed, which we now know was complete nonsense, native people used fire, a lot, to control and change their land, to enable crops and wildlife to grow as the natives wished.  One might say they had it down to a science, and the natives made sure they were not at risk from wild fires and dangerous conditions that would threaten their lives.  Perhaps the modern descendants of white Europeans don't want to ever admit they are fools when it comes to land management, maybe it would be a crushing blow to the collective ego of the ancestors of the conquering hordes, to realize the locals knew more than they did about nature, managing the land and how to protect from fire dangers.

It's an interesting issue.

http://www.methowvalleyinterpretivecenter.com/references/Native-Fire-Use/Williams-Aboriginal-Fire-Use-2002.pdf

I've read many of the writings of explorers and conquerors, and they always mention the fires they observed, it seemed most strange to them, the natives were always burning something it seemed, especially when conditions were safe to do so.  THIS OF COURSE MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Even now in Florida (and maybe other areas) there are regular burns to keep pasture land productive for cattle. There are regulations and course material on it, it's a known thing, and it is important.  Each year about 2.1 million acres are burned.

https://www.fdacs.gov/Divisions-Offices/Florida-Forest-Service/Wildland-Fire/Prescribed-Fire

https://nwdistrict.ifas.ufl.edu/phag/2013/04/05/get-fired-up-about-your-pasture-or-hayfield/

Native people also used fire to create better grass for animals, even though they didn't herd them, they certainly knew the advantage of creating desirable pasture for animals they hunted.  They also used fire to get rid if plants they didn't want, and to help those they cultivated.  Fire is as natural as sunlight, but it's something that can be created, used, controlled and protected from.  I can't find a source that simply states this, perhaps because it is so obvious, but native people did not allow a ton of dangerous fuel to build up around where they lived or hunted.  That would be insanity. 

Something people suffering from the horrific fires recently, know all too well.

It isn't just the danger of lightning starting a fire nearby (that would destroy pretty much everything), they were no doubt were quite aware of how easy it would be for an enemy to set a fire to destroy them.


« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 01:15:10 PM by Gigabyte »
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Offline Gigabyte

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2020, 01:36:16 PM »
Just last week their was a "wildfire" that "broke out"  in the smoky mountains, (it is thought to be power lines, from a great wind that preceded the storm front) and oh the alarm and fear it brought.  Conditions were still damp from previous rains, but power lines will catch even wet wood on fire, and there it was, a wildfire raging in the fierce winds before the rain.  Because of the great Gatlinburg fire of 2016, (STARTED BY KIDS), and the horrific death toll and damage from that, it was an extreme emergency.  And since it was in rough mountain country, and the high winds, there wasn't a lot to be done about it.  Air drops not going to happen, can't get to it by roads, it was 100% uncontained.  No firebreaks at all, since no burning is ever allowed in the area, it was quite dire.

Except it wasn't, because the heavy rain was coming and very fast.

The rain put it out, and nobody died. It was a rare instance where some fire did what it has always done.  Got rid of  lot of dead tinder (and man is there a lot of that), opened up some spaces for young trees and other plants to grow in the coming years, and enriched the soil.

Because of the practice (and laws) prohibiting any fire at all in the Great Smokey mountains, there is so much dead wood, so much fuel (standing dead trees, downed trees, branches, dead shrubs, leaves, every kind of fuel you can imagine), any fire that does break out in dry windy conditions is going to be just horrific. (The Galtlinbgurg fire of2016).

It;s almost impossible imagine, but if you drive through the park you can simply see it.  Just from the roads you can see this amazing amount of fuel everywhere.  One can imagine that if an enemy of the people wished to set fire and terrorize multiple states, millions of people, it would be childs play. (that is some dark humor, since it was actually children setting off fireworks that led to the deaths of 14 people, 175 injuries and devastating loss of homes and businesses in 2016)

It was an accident.  Children playing.

While the danger from accidental fires is great, the danger from intentional terrorism using fire is beyond belief.  It's a real problem, a very real danger, one that native people probably couldn't have imagined possible.

This is in a very wet area, the Smoky Mountains. Dry areas are of course at a much higher risk.







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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Indigenous fire management 'ancient wisdom' (Australian bush fires)
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2020, 11:14:04 PM »
Indigenous cultural burn a factor in helping save home from bushfire, as fire experts call for more investment

Quote
Gavin Brook fought to save his home from bushfires for weeks.

The long road to his house, in bushland west of the NSW town of Ulladulla, is testament to that.

It is lined with scorched, blackened bushland.

It is also lined with the charred remains of his neighbours' properties and cars.

The devastation stretches for kilometres, but Mr Brook's property sits in stark contrast to the scenes around it: his house is still standing.

"The fires burnt all around us," he said.

"It was 360 degrees around our home."

His brick bungalow, grassy yard and thriving garden look like a green oasis amongst a brown and burnt landscape.

The family had several close calls and they believed their home was at serious risk at least four times.

In two of those occasions, his wife and children fled to safer ground...

Read more at the link.
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