Author Topic: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)  (Read 2656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John Albert

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7794
  • Coincidence theorist
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2020, 12:11:27 AM »
The cheese in pizza isn’t really cheese.

Sounds like you need to find a better pizza restaurant.

Yeah, no shit. Where do you live, bachfiend? St Louis?

Offline Shibboleth

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9062
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2020, 10:47:07 AM »
You would think that the use of rennet in a lot of cheese would make it so that no matter how the milk was made the cheese would not be vegan.
Large data of text  or Mediumtext or Longtext

Offline lucek

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2020, 02:33:27 PM »
You would think that the use of rennet in a lot of cheese would make it so that no matter how the milk was made the cheese would not be vegan.
Ther is bacterial rennet used in cheese already.
You have the power, but. . .
Power is just energy over time and. . .
Energy is just the ability to do work.

Offline Friendly Angel

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4651
  • Post count reset to zero twice, but not this time!
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2020, 03:24:54 PM »


Many years ago I tried fake cheese on pizza. That stuff is crap. It's the same color as cheese but it doesn't taste good and it doesn't melt right.


Fake cheese quality is lagging behind fake meat quality... but it's definitely getting better. 
I like cheese, vegan wife doesn't like that I like it and is always trying new substitutes on me. 
Here's the latest in pizza from a popular vegan cheese producer in California:

https://vegnews.com/2020/2/miyoko-s-new-world-changing-cheese-debuts-at-california-pizza-chain

They're also about ready to promote grilled-cheese sandwiches from food trucks.
Amend and resubmit.

Offline Jeremy's Sea

  • Kintsukuroi, baby.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5035
  • 667 - Neighbor of the beast.
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2020, 05:50:38 PM »
you're kind of the hyperbole master around here

Am I? Really?

The "hyperbole master"... I kinda like it. It sounds a just little bit dangerous

Anyway, the bit you quoted right there is basically a joke, though it is a pretty good approximation of my opinion on vegan alternatives.


but it's not all that bad, and surprisingly some of us have different tastes and a "pale imposter" is good, even preferable.

Not sure I'm following your line of reasoning. I certainly never demanded that my own tastes must apply to everybody.

The thing I was ranting about in my above post is those horrible vegan bastardizations of meat or dairy based foodstuffs, which taste nothing at all like the real thing. The point being that if I have a taste for some particular food and somebody serves me a mere approximation of that food, all I'm going to taste is the difference. There's no way to avoid it. If somebody whets my appetite with the prospect of a thick, juicy steak and then serves me a slab of texturized vegetable protein infused with beet juice, there's no way I'm going to feel anything but disappointed.
I certainly hope people aren't doing that! I think most establishments are up front about their vegan alternatives. It's like hamburgers or hotdogs though isn't it? A hamburger patty isn't what comes off the cow, nor is a sausage the shape of flesh off a pig, but it's become a recognizable assembly for consuming that animal. Why is that any different than the vegan version? It's not like it's trying to be an exact replica to lure you into sadness. I like that I don't have to eat a bowl of grains and vegetables every time I go out to eat. It's nice to have them seared on a grill, slathered in condiments and crammed in a bun. Same same.

Quote
I fucking loathe shellfish, but I don't feel like people are living a lie because they pay a shit ton of money to eat ocean cockroaches.  :laugh: :P

Of course it's not living a lie to eat the kinds of foods you love. Especially when they're not some kind of weird mock-ups.

The 'living a lie' part is choking down some Frankensteinian abomination of an otherwise delicious food, all the while forcing a smile and pretending it's just as good as the genuine article. All in support of the faith-based delusion that you can give up entire major categories of foods without actually having to sacrifice any enjoyment of those kinds of foods. That's the lie.

If you don't particularly like meat and you really want to go vegan, go for it. But talk to your physician first, and be prepared to change your culinary preferences.

And for the love of all that is good and delicious, let's not try to pretend that tofurkey is anything like actual turkey. 
I don't think anyone really does though? Not any vegan I have ever known. I'm not strictly speaking a vegan, but I have been, and really only slip out to vegetarian when I don't feel like monitoring everything I eat, but it's nice to have an occasional sandwich with fake lunch meat, or mix in tofurkey sausages with my pasta. My sense is that most consenting vegans understand all of this, so I'm not sure who you're interacting with to get this impression? Or maybe it's just the prevailing view of vegans that the early internet latched onto where they're all delusional and militant because someone knew that person at their dorm freshman year.  :laugh:
Knowledge is power. France is bacon.

Offline arthwollipot

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9780
  • Observer of Phenomena. Pronouns: he/him
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2020, 09:27:02 PM »
The specific microbes used to ferment the cheese probably make far more difference than the slight flavor differences of the milk. And I doubt that anybody will be able to tell the difference between cheese made from cow milk and cheese made from lab-grown milk with a bit of sucrose or glucose added for the bacteria to act on.

Except that in most traditional cheeses, milk from different sources is processed slightly differently into different cheeses. For example, you use goat milk to make Chavraux. You wouldn't use cow's milk for that. In general, when makers are making specific cheeses, the type of milk is not generally interchangeable.
Self-described nerd.

Offline arthwollipot

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9780
  • Observer of Phenomena. Pronouns: he/him
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2020, 09:27:54 PM »
You would think that the use of rennet in a lot of cheese would make it so that no matter how the milk was made the cheese would not be vegan.

Almost all cheese produced in Australia is made using non-animal sourced rennet.
Self-described nerd.

Online lonely moa

  • A rather tough old bird.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5157
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2020, 08:27:42 PM »
If this stuff doesn't have lactose then it will not be "culinarily identical" to real milk.
Best way I can put it is if you treat lab grown milk as milk durring cheese making you end up with cheese. If you do the same with soy or rice or almond milk etc. You end up with a mess. That's why vegan cheese is margarine thickened with starch.

Soy cheese is tofu. There are a few differences in the production method, but the basic idea is the same.

But daniel is right. There are as many varieties of veganism as there are vegans. Some will drink it, some will not. They make their own decision.

Actually, vegans don't use any animal derived products, in my experience.  Vegans cannot wear leather, wool, silk or down.  Makes life difficult IMHO.

Spoiler
Vegans are happy to eat non-animal mono crops, like soy, wheat, corn, barley, etc. and just deny the fact that multitudes of animals (lots with faces and mothers) are killed bringing food to the plate. One doesn't actually see the underground species killed but you do ,and I have, notice some pretty mutilated hares, rabbits, ducks and hedgehogs on the surface on the next pass during cultivation or mowing.
[close]

"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Jeremy's Sea

  • Kintsukuroi, baby.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5035
  • 667 - Neighbor of the beast.
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2020, 10:37:42 PM »
OMG and you're nasty and ignorant on top of everything.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 12:57:54 AM by Jeremy's Sea »
Knowledge is power. France is bacon.

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3312
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2020, 01:52:33 AM »
There's there's always going to be death involved somehow. The main killer of wildlife is land use and habitat loss (and climate change, which agriculture is a significant component of). We're not going to reduce that to zero. But livestock uses far more land per unit of nutrition.

Online lonely moa

  • A rather tough old bird.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5157
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2020, 02:23:09 AM »
There's there's always going to be death involved somehow. The main killer of wildlife is land use and habitat loss (and climate change, which agriculture is a significant component of). We're not going to reduce that to zero. But livestock uses far more land per unit of nutrition.

Generally on land that is unsuitable for arable agriculture.  In the US, beef livestock lives three quarters of its lives on unirrigated grazing that is completely unable to support cultivated agriculture, and finished in some unholy feedlot. In Aotearoa, beef and lamb are completely grown and finished on pasture .  When humans can successfully grow and reproduce eating the lush pasture on my farm, let me know.  ;)

Most of the agricultural land on earth is unsuitable for  arable cropping, btw.

My head spins when vegans (re. what is a vegan) wear petrochemicals in lieu of time tested material for clothing, btw.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5687
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2020, 06:20:05 AM »
The cheese in pizza isn’t really cheese.

Sounds like you need to find a better pizza restaurant.

Yeah, no shit. Where do you live, bachfiend? St Louis?

Is Saint Louis infamous for its pizzas?
Large data of text  or Mediumtext or Longtext

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3312
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2020, 06:17:47 AM »
Generally on land that is unsuitable for arable agriculture.  In the US, beef livestock lives three quarters of its lives on unirrigated grazing that is completely unable to support cultivated agriculture, and finished in some unholy feedlot. In Aotearoa, beef and lamb are completely grown and finished on pasture .  When humans can successfully grow and reproduce eating the lush pasture on my farm, let me know.  ;)

Most of the agricultural land on earth is unsuitable for  arable cropping, btw.

But we don't need to simply change which human activity is occurring on a given piece of land. We need to use less land and energy, and we need to allow for more forest growth and to protect and restore habitats.

At the very least the feedlots should be eliminated. Livestock shouldn't use more land than the land they're grazing on. And people are still clearing/burning more land for grazing. In any case we need to reduce global meat consumption, to be able to get rid of the worst of animal agriculture.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 06:24:32 AM by 2397 »

Offline arthwollipot

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 9780
  • Observer of Phenomena. Pronouns: he/him
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2020, 07:45:50 PM »
If this stuff doesn't have lactose then it will not be "culinarily identical" to real milk.
Best way I can put it is if you treat lab grown milk as milk durring cheese making you end up with cheese. If you do the same with soy or rice or almond milk etc. You end up with a mess. That's why vegan cheese is margarine thickened with starch.

Soy cheese is tofu. There are a few differences in the production method, but the basic idea is the same.

But daniel is right. There are as many varieties of veganism as there are vegans. Some will drink it, some will not. They make their own decision.

Actually, vegans don't use any animal derived products, in my experience.  Vegans cannot wear leather, wool, silk or down.  Makes life difficult IMHO.

Some vegans absolutely will avoid using animal products. But vegans can make their own decisions about what products they will and will not use, and don't need you to tell them what they can or cannot do. Especially when you're doing so specifically in order to brand them a hypocrite.
Self-described nerd.

Online bachfiend

  • Not Any Kind of Moderator
  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2911
    • View Profile
Re: Lab made milk (and what is vegan?)
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2020, 12:05:30 AM »
There's there's always going to be death involved somehow. The main killer of wildlife is land use and habitat loss (and climate change, which agriculture is a significant component of). We're not going to reduce that to zero. But livestock uses far more land per unit of nutrition.

Generally on land that is unsuitable for arable agriculture.  In the US, beef livestock lives three quarters of its lives on unirrigated grazing that is completely unable to support cultivated agriculture, and finished in some unholy feedlot. In Aotearoa, beef and lamb are completely grown and finished on pasture .  When humans can successfully grow and reproduce eating the lush pasture on my farm, let me know.  ;)

Most of the agricultural land on earth is unsuitable for  arable cropping, btw.

My head spins when vegans (re. what is a vegan) wear petrochemicals in lieu of time tested material for clothing, btw.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef_cattle

Take note of the section that states that most American beef cattle spend the last half of their lives in feedlots, which contradicts your claim that they spend 3/4 of their lives on unirrigated pasture.
Gebt ihr ihr ihr Buch zurück