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Offline Captain Video

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2020, 01:01:04 PM »
I've never been a fan of pressure cookers, except for canning, back when I had a 1/4-acre garden in North Dakota. I have known people who claim that pressure-cooked food has more nutrition because of the short cooking time. I disagree: The higher temperature will denature the vitamins more than slow cooking at a lower temperature. And while individual tastes vary, I find that slower cooking has better results. But since I can buy really delicious low-sodium beans in a can, I don't have a lot of incentive to cook my own.

I will look into the InstaPot, which I had never heard of before. But I'm starting with a prior opinion and experience that pressure cooking is inferior.

I would be interested in hearing the opinion of Captain Video and any other professional cooks who may be here, regarding pressure cooking vs. slow cooking.

Slow cooking produces better results in most cases however pressure cooking will often produce completely adequate results much faster.  Pressure cooking does not concentrate a sauce in the same way that slow cooking will.

In some specific cases of beans I believe pressure cooking will produce better results. The experiment I did with garbanzo beans and the instapot in the humus thread proved that to me. You are trying to get them to absorb moisture which they will do faster under pressure plus you wont loose as much moisture during cooking.  If I was making baked beans from dry I mite start with the pressure cooker to get the beans soft then switch to a cast iron slow cook in the oven.

The instapot is flexible for several cooking styles. Unlike a crock pot it will get hot enough to saute and brown things (hot enough to burn if you are not stirring which is good). You can then add liquid and choose to either slow cook for 4-8 hours or pressure cook for up to 30 minutes. It has quick buttons for soup, chili, stews, etc.  It comes with settings and a steam rack for vegetable or dumpling steaming. It has settings to be used as a rice cooker, multigrain, and porridge.  After cooking it reverts to a warm cycle for many hours.  The lid is pressure tight so you can make a stew and keep it hot all day giving you time to eat it all.

Canning as you mentioned is also a benefit.

 I can make chili with rough cut meat in 45min in the instapot vs 3-4 hours of slow cooking. Tougher cuts of meat will break down quickly under pressure. There is not much of a taste difference, I add less liquid.




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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2020, 01:51:07 PM »
There's this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551098/

Quote
Steam pressure cooking (1 kg/cm2) and boiling (100°C) for 3 standardized time periods were assessed. Prolonged cooking in both pressure cooking and boiling resulted in a significant (p ≤ 0.05) loss in Fe and Ca. A significant loss of ascorbic acid and ß-carotene were observed during 2 cooking methods, the greater loss was during boiling. Pressure cooking and boiling resulted in significant (p ≤ 0.05) destruction in the anti-nutrients like phytates, tannins and trypsin inhibitors. The in vitro protein digestibility was highest (93.9%) on 3 min pressure cooking followed by 15 min boiling (91.0%). The results indicated that pressure cooking should be preferred cooking method. Pressure cooking for 3 min and boiling for 15 min improved in vitro protein digestibility by reducing antinutrients considerably./quote]

The loss of the non heme iron and calcium from boiling or pressure cooking is a non starter.  Iron from vegetable sources is not particularly bioavailable for a start, calcium is everywhere in a good diet.  Decent portions of animal products will provide those nutrients in spades.  Humans are built to eat a diverse diet that includes animal products.  You want strong bones and muscles in your old age, push weights and eat meat.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2020, 04:26:06 PM »
I've never been a fan of pressure cookers, except for canning, back when I had a 1/4-acre garden in North Dakota. I have known people who claim that pressure-cooked food has more nutrition because of the short cooking time. I disagree: The higher temperature will denature the vitamins more than slow cooking at a lower temperature. And while individual tastes vary, I find that slower cooking has better results. But since I can buy really delicious low-sodium beans in a can, I don't have a lot of incentive to cook my own.

I will look into the InstaPot, which I had never heard of before. But I'm starting with a prior opinion and experience that pressure cooking is inferior.

I would be interested in hearing the opinion of Captain Video and any other professional cooks who may be here, regarding pressure cooking vs. slow cooking.

Slow cooking produces better results in most cases however pressure cooking will often produce completely adequate results much faster.  Pressure cooking does not concentrate a sauce in the same way that slow cooking will.

In some specific cases of beans I believe pressure cooking will produce better results. The experiment I did with garbanzo beans and the instapot in the humus thread proved that to me. You are trying to get them to absorb moisture which they will do faster under pressure plus you wont loose as much moisture during cooking.  If I was making baked beans from dry I mite start with the pressure cooker to get the beans soft then switch to a cast iron slow cook in the oven.

The instapot is flexible for several cooking styles. Unlike a crock pot it will get hot enough to saute and brown things (hot enough to burn if you are not stirring which is good). You can then add liquid and choose to either slow cook for 4-8 hours or pressure cook for up to 30 minutes. It has quick buttons for soup, chili, stews, etc.  It comes with settings and a steam rack for vegetable or dumpling steaming. It has settings to be used as a rice cooker, multigrain, and porridge.  After cooking it reverts to a warm cycle for many hours.  The lid is pressure tight so you can make a stew and keep it hot all day giving you time to eat it all.

Canning as you mentioned is also a benefit.

 I can make chili with rough cut meat in 45min in the instapot vs 3-4 hours of slow cooking. Tougher cuts of meat will break down quickly under pressure. There is not much of a taste difference, I add less liquid.

Thanks.

The cost of an InstaPot is not a problem for me, but counter space is. I could make room for one if I moved the Cuisinart and the toaster out of the kitchen. I'm not going to move either the flour mill or the fish roaster, which also works for some kinds of veggies.

The thing is, I really have no excuse for not making beans or bean soup from scratch, and I suspect it would be better from scratch.

Now I have a craving for split pea soup. Decision made: Split pea soup tomorrow. (The pizza crust for today is already half made.)
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2020, 05:11:46 PM »
A nutritionist referred to beans as "Nature's miracle food" once. Except for the flatulence I'd be inclined to agree.
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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2020, 05:33:13 PM »
Pigeon peas. Pigeon pea pizza. You haven't lived until you've acquired a taste for pigeon peas.
As the Bowery King said: I wouldn't advise you to eat them.  ;D

They are pretty and have lots of flavour. Recommended.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2020, 07:04:46 PM »
A nutritionist referred to beans as "Nature's miracle food" once. Except for the flatulence I'd be inclined to agree.

Beans, beans, the musical fruit;
the more you eat , the more you toot.
The more you toot the better you feel,
so let's have beans for every meal!

Today's bean pizza was again delicious. This time I included onion, olives, and bell pepper, making it a little more like my regular pizzas. I also mixed some nutritional yeast in with the beans because it thickens the liquid which I didn't want to throw out, but which would have made it more messy.

Pea soup tomorrow.
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2020, 07:26:16 PM »
Peas be with you.  8)
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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2020, 07:40:32 PM »
Even if the Instant Pot is not as good as stovetop cooking, there's no doubt it's a damn sight better than buying pre-cooked canned beans.

I'm not big on kitchen gadgetry. But in terms of bang-for-the-buck in kitchen appliances my Instant Pot comes in a solid third place, right after the Zojirushi water boiler (which I've had for over 10 years and use several times a day) and the little 4-cup Cuisinart food processor (which was relatively cheap, but I've also used it almost every day for over 10 years).

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2020, 09:23:08 PM »
Even if the Instant Pot is not as good as stovetop cooking, there's no doubt it's a damn sight better than buying pre-cooked canned beans.

These are really good pre-cooked canned beans. :)

I'm not big on kitchen gadgetry. But in terms of bang-for-the-buck in kitchen appliances my Instant Pot comes in a solid third place, right after the Zojirushi water boiler (which I've had for over 10 years and use several times a day) and the little 4-cup Cuisinart food processor (which was relatively cheap, but I've also used it almost every day for over 10 years).

I may get one if I can figure out a way to organize my counter space to accommodate it.

A friend in Mexico when I was living there said that only her grandmother made better beans than I did. My method was a two-step process that would not work in a pressure cooker or InstaPot: Step one was to check for and remove any small stones, rinse the beans, then cover them with an inch of water and cook until all the water was gone and they just barely started to burn the slightest little bit. No salt or other seasoning in that first step. Then I added half water and half tomato juice, again covering the beans by an inch or two, plus chopped onion, chopped poblano pepper, and two de-veined and de-seeded smooth green jalapeno peppers, chopped finely, and some garlic, and seasonings. (Jalapenos with lengthwise scratch marks are hotter; ones that are a smooth flat green are milder. I prefer the milder ones. Two of them for a pot of beans gave the right amount of hot for me. Linguistic curiosity: In English we describe the sensation of chili pepper as being hot. But in Spanish it is described it as stinging. Picante, from the verb picar, to sting.) I don't remember which seasonings I used. Maybe tarragon, celery seed, black pepper, probably others. Then I cooked it on low heat until the beans were tender. At that point I could either stop, and have frijoles de olla, or run the whole thing through the blender for frijoles molidos. Generally I'd eat frijoles de olla with tortillas (fresh tortillas are a world apart from store-bought tortillas) and I'd use frijoles molidos as a spread on bread or as a dip.

For split-pea soup I cook the split peas first and then mash them, leaving some lumps, and then add that to the soup. Again, not a one-step toss-it-in-an-InstaPot process.

I had a slow-cooker a long time ago, but didn't care for the results. I like slow-cooked foods, but that was too slow and nothing seemed cooked enough.

In Mexico I lived at an elevation of about 6,000 feet above sea level. Now, my stovetop is about 40 feet above sea level. That means water boils about 12° F. hotter here than it did where I cooked beans in Mexico. Not sure if that would make a noticeable difference in how the beans turn out.
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Online John Albert

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2020, 12:01:51 AM »
The local grocery store where I buy most of my food actually gets fresh tortillas daily, from a local tortilleria called Atotonilco. When they first arrive, they're still hot.

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2020, 12:15:14 AM »
We have an abundance of Vietnamese fresh bread shops. Get in there early and the smell is amazing. The bread's even better.
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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2020, 05:22:19 AM »
I'm making some Hue-style Vietnamese beef soup for dinner this weekend.

https://pupswithchopsticks.com/bun-bo-hue/

Offline Captain Video

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2020, 08:03:08 AM »
I'm lucky to have all of that available.

We have Lees bakery which provides rolls for the majority of banh mis in town as well as their own.

Lots of fresh tortilla places including the world farmers market that will press them while you wait.

@Daniel
I also tend to have counter space issues and just pull out the appliance being used one at a time as I would a new pot for the stove.  The instapot is out more than the others but has to fight for space with a deep fat fryer, toaster, blender and a stand mixer. I use the toaster the least.

I moved my coffee maker and hot water pot to another location away from the counter using a shelf on the wall. I have never used it to make coffee for myself but use the hot water pot almost daily.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2020, 10:03:42 AM »
The local grocery store where I buy most of my food actually gets fresh tortillas daily, from a local tortilleria called Atotonilco. When they first arrive, they're still hot.

You're fortunate. They need to be still hot to be really fresh. I've never been able to get fresh tortillas since I left Mexico, but in Spokane I did have a tortilla press and could buy masa harina (what the Mexicans just call masa) in the store. That's the dried, powdered, lye-treated corn that's used to make tortillas if you don't have nixtamal,  which is the fresh lye-treated corn. I did not bring my tortilla press from Spokane because it's heavy and I had not used it for years.

Totally off topic, what I really miss is lefse, a very thin potato bread from Scandinavia, which was widely available in Fargo and throughout Minnesota, but which I never found in Spokane or here.

I'm lucky to have all of that available.

We have Lees bakery which provides rolls for the majority of banh mis in town as well as their own.

Lots of fresh tortilla places including the world farmers market that will press them while you wait.

@Daniel
I also tend to have counter space issues and just pull out the appliance being used one at a time as I would a new pot for the stove.  The instapot is out more than the others but has to fight for space with a deep fat fryer, toaster, blender and a stand mixer. I use the toaster the least.

I moved my coffee maker and hot water pot to another location away from the counter using a shelf on the wall. I have never used it to make coffee for myself but use the hot water pot almost daily.

I have the nicest kitchen I've ever had (the entire house is far and away the nicest house I've ever lived in) but a shortage of both counter space and storage space. The bread maker has long since moved into a closet, since I have switched to making bread from scratch because it's just a LOT better than the bread-machine bread. I'm inclined to think that an InstaPot would be a convenience that would make food not quite as good as the stovetop.

Pea soup today.

Edited to correct the spelling of "lefse."
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 07:49:58 PM by daniel1948 »
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Re: Bean pizza
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2020, 11:49:56 AM »
There's this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551098/

Quote
Steam pressure cooking (1 kg/cm2) and boiling (100°C) for 3 standardized time periods were assessed. Prolonged cooking in both pressure cooking and boiling resulted in a significant (p ≤ 0.05) loss in Fe and Ca. A significant loss of ascorbic acid and ß-carotene were observed during 2 cooking methods, the greater loss was during boiling. Pressure cooking and boiling resulted in significant (p ≤ 0.05) destruction in the anti-nutrients like phytates, tannins and trypsin inhibitors. The in vitro protein digestibility was highest (93.9%) on 3 min pressure cooking followed by 15 min boiling (91.0%). The results indicated that pressure cooking should be preferred cooking method. Pressure cooking for 3 min and boiling for 15 min improved in vitro protein digestibility by reducing antinutrients considerably./quote]

The loss of the non heme iron and calcium from boiling or pressure cooking is a non starter.  Iron from vegetable sources is not particularly bioavailable for a start, calcium is everywhere in a good diet.  Decent portions of animal products will provide those nutrients in spades.  Humans are built to eat a diverse diet that includes animal products.  You want strong bones and muscles in your old age, push weights and eat meat.


You don’t understand your cited source.  You don’t understand the difference between a statistically significant reduction in iron and calcium (which was demonstrated in the experiment involving three cookings) and a significant reduction in iron and calcium (which wasn’t demonstrated, with iron and calcium being both reduced by only about 10%, and with phytates also being reduced making iron bioavailability better) - cooking in water leaches minerals.  The really greatest reduction was in vitamin C and beta-carotene, both reduced by around 50%, which is understandable, since both are molecules prone to be broken down by heat.
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