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Media => TV & Movies => Topic started by: mindme on January 12, 2015, 09:57:31 AM

Title: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 12, 2015, 09:57:31 AM
We lost this one. TV shows that seem okay.

- Gotham
- Welcome to Sweden

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 12, 2015, 10:30:35 AM
I really don't get the love for Transparent.  I tried. I wanted to like it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 12, 2015, 10:39:47 AM
Gotham isnt the best but I usually look forward to it!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on January 12, 2015, 11:02:40 AM
Boston Legal

just finished a rewatch of season 1. not quite as satisfying as I recall, but it probably gets better.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 12, 2015, 01:48:43 PM
Gotham isnt the best but I usually look forward to it!

Thing I like best about Gotham is it's on a monday night. Something to easy into the week.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on January 12, 2015, 02:55:13 PM
Gotham is a hot mess, but I havn't ditched it yet.  Its so contrived, and constrained by the decades of history.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 13, 2015, 08:45:35 AM
My issue with Gotham is "oh, here are ALL the batman characters before you knew them. Ha ha."
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 13, 2015, 01:49:11 PM
I just love the little bruce wayne moments. Really enjoying his weirdness. Harvey Bullock is cool too.
Speaking of not the best- just caught a Teen Titans Go episode from a few weeks ago. If you arent familiar, it takes a bunch of Dc teen superheroes and puts them in 10minute shorts done with a vert cartoony art style and something like the regular show humour. Its pretty decent. The episode in question featured all the Robins (Dick,Tim,Jason and Carrie Kelly) in a competition to see who is the best one.
Pretty damn funny. Especially if you know the characters from the recent animated movies and the 60s series.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 13, 2015, 08:47:32 PM
I feel like everyone should at least try an episode of Episodes.
Its one of the few shows that really gets me laughing out loud these days. Matt LeBlanc is doing stellar work.
I feel like his character is what Joey would have been after 20years of success. But more of an asshole.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 14, 2015, 10:03:58 AM
Episodes is a good inclusion under this. Funny premise. Great acting. But. Hrm. Just stopped watching after most of the first season I think.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: materialist_girl on January 14, 2015, 10:15:51 AM
I feel like I really want to love Sleepy Hollow, but truth be told I haven't watched it since a few episodes into the second season.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 14, 2015, 12:12:01 PM
I really hate to put Bob's burgers on this list but I feel like its gone downhill.  It is however still a very good show, just no longer great.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 14, 2015, 01:35:10 PM
I feel like I really want to love Sleepy Hollow, but truth be told I haven't watched it since a few episodes into the second season.
I saw the first season on a plane and was tired and mostly making moon eyes at the lady cop but Ive always intended to catch up
They have said that when Crane puts on a pair of jeans it will be over.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 14, 2015, 01:54:25 PM
I feel like I really want to love Sleepy Hollow, but truth be told I haven't watched it since a few episodes into the second season.

A good one too. Such potential, I think. The "mystery" of who Ichabod Crane was should have been played out more. The cause of the murders, etc. Instead they sorta just dumped the whole universe into your laps in ep 1. And then this small town had so many brutal murders, it made me wonder why the state wasn't sending in the national guard.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: teethering on January 15, 2015, 03:17:00 PM
Transparent isn't very good.  The premise has excellent promise and Jeffrey Tambor in the leading role is simply outstanding, but the likeability of the rest of his family makes this show such a chore.  Imagine Arrested Development level of self-involvement minus the laughs to deflate it.

I'm only half-way through the season, so maybe the show will find its stride in the rest of the episodes but at the moment I have to say I'm disappointed.  All the reviews are raving about how awesome it is.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 15, 2015, 05:12:36 PM
Transparent isn't very good.  The premise has excellent promise and Jeffrey Tambor in the leading role is simply outstanding, but the likeability of the rest of his family makes this show such a chore.  Imagine Arrested Development level of self-involvement minus the laughs to deflate it.

I'm only half-way through the season, so maybe the show will find its stride in the rest of the episodes but at the moment I have to say I'm disappointed.  All the reviews are raving about how awesome it is.
Thank you!  I was starting to feel crazy.  I tried watching and while I actually liked the bits with Tambor, his storyline seems to occupy like 1/15th of each episode I watched. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: teethering on January 15, 2015, 05:41:38 PM
I feel like the problem is with the writing, which is the reason I'm going to continue watching.  If they just started making these characters more compelling and interesting, instead of annoying, selfish and self-absorbed I could change my mind.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 15, 2015, 05:46:37 PM
i might keep watching just to have on in the background while doing work, i'll see if it grows on me.

I did however like Amazon's other show, Mozart in the Jungle.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on January 16, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
Transparent isn't very good.  The premise has excellent promise and Jeffrey Tambor in the leading role is simply outstanding, but the likeability of the rest of his family makes this show such a chore.  Imagine Arrested Development level of self-involvement minus the laughs to deflate it.

I'm only half-way through the season, so maybe the show will find its stride in the rest of the episodes but at the moment I have to say I'm disappointed.  All the reviews are raving about how awesome it is.

Yeah, I watched about four episodes last night and it never really jelled for me. Great premise, and I hope it gets better. But, like you, I didn't really care much for the characters. Good music, though.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: teethering on January 16, 2015, 10:27:21 AM
i might keep watching just to have on in the background while doing work, i'll see if it grows on me.

I did however like Amazon's other show, Mozart in the Jungle.

Yeah, Mozart in the Jungle redeems itself.  I neaaaaarly quit in the middle of the first episode because.... wait for it... there was too much gratuitous sex.  Thankfully it got better and Gael Garcia Bernal is a lot of fun.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on January 16, 2015, 10:41:47 AM
I still haven't bothered to watch the 2nd half of the 1st season of Agents of Shield. Yes, I know it's supposed to get better. It's got to get a lot better...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 16, 2015, 12:40:50 PM
I still haven't bothered to watch the 2nd half of the 1st season of Agents of Shield. Yes, I know it's supposed to get better. It's got to get a lot better...
This should help. It really only gets good in the last few episodes. Most of it is very skippable.
http://io9.com/which-episodes-you-must-watch-to-catch-up-on-agents-of-1572676925 (http://io9.com/which-episodes-you-must-watch-to-catch-up-on-agents-of-1572676925)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 17, 2015, 12:33:10 AM
Was just announced "Benched" has been cancelled.

Sad, I really like Harrington since "Better of Ted".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tatyana on January 17, 2015, 01:42:45 PM
Downton Abbey. Really Americans, it is just a soap opera with great costumes and sets.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on January 17, 2015, 04:02:59 PM
You are all wrong about Transparent... seriously though if you don't like unlikable characters then I totally get the hate. I love unlikable characters. Even if every single character in a show is unlikable. I find it fascinating.

I also watch episodes. It's so dumb.. but I can't stop. And I do laugh out loud quite a bit.

Marco Polo belongs on this list. I didn't watch past the first episode, but from reading reviews it doesn't seem to get much better. Netflix has said they will be releasing something like 30 new shows this year, but that they will be very niche shows and none are intended for everyone.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on January 17, 2015, 07:34:47 PM
That's okay. Any show geared toward everyone isn't usually all that good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 17, 2015, 09:24:44 PM
You are all wrong about Transparent... seriously though if you don't like unlikable characters then I totally get the hate. I love unlikable characters. Even if every single character in a show is unlikable. I find it fascinating.

I also watch episodes. It's so dumb.. but I can't stop. And I do laugh out loud quite a bit.

Marco Polo belongs on this list. I didn't watch past the first episode, but from reading reviews it doesn't seem to get much better. Netflix has said they will be releasing something like 30 new shows this year, but that they will be very niche shows and none are intended for everyone.

Gets better from 5 and on. Not enough to make the show great, but firmly in the 'meh' category. Not really a fail, but not a success either.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 18, 2015, 02:51:32 PM
current seasons simpsons is still in the watchable category, certainly better than many shows
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 19, 2015, 07:04:54 AM
current seasons simpsons is still in the watchable category, certainly better than many shows

Seems new shows think showing lots of nudity can replace setting, story and plot. Seems to work to some degree I guess. But some shows buck the trend, like Orphan Black, Black Mirror, Utopia, the knick, and so on. Really would like to see something done with the Culture series on Sci-Fi and more done with Ascendancy.


Sci-fi is lacking real presence. I miss it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 19, 2015, 08:03:57 AM
I honestly find sex scenes on tv shows to be lazy time fillers. Yeah, it can often be a look into the psychology of the character but normally its more a look at the psychology of the director/writer or their perception of their audience.
I find it especially noticeable in period pieces where the sex and the participants bear no resemblance to what I read of sex during these periods. It tells me Im supposed to be turned on and not anything about the story being told. The lack of female body hair is a good thing to point to in that respect.
Supernatural is not something most people would point to as a great tv show but they did two sex scenes that I can recall which both spoke volumes about the characters involved. They did it in tropey ways but the tropes were totally at odds with what we had been shown of these characters to that point.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 19, 2015, 10:42:21 AM
Supernatural is an awesome show, and curses on anyone who says otherwise. I love the show. My daughter loves the show (for obvious reasons). I like the camp. It's just entertaining.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on January 19, 2015, 11:16:03 AM
I watched Supernatural for a while. never got much sense of an overarching plot, a little too isolated episodes'y for me
(but I watched up to the point an angel became god, or something, so...I guess there is one)

I was hoping there would be an episode set in Stars Hollow one day.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on January 19, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
I honestly find sex scenes on tv shows to be lazy time fillers. Yeah, it can often be a look into the psychology of the character but normally its more a look at the psychology of the director/writer or their perception of their audience.
I find it especially noticeable in period pieces where the sex and the participants bear no resemblance to what I read of sex during these periods. It tells me Im supposed to be turned on and not anything about the story being told. The lack of female body hair is a good thing to point to in that respect.
Supernatural is not something most people would point to as a great tv show but they did two sex scenes that I can recall which both spoke volumes about the characters involved. They did it in tropey ways but the tropes were totally at odds with what we had been shown of these characters to that point.

I recall reading John Cleland"s 1748 novel Fanny Hill, which was banned for years due to its heavy sex scenes. The book depicts sex common at the time, and really, it's little different from what you might expect to see on TV today. I suppose each generation thinks that it invented certain sexual practices. But really, most have been around forever.

Even film porn from the earliest days of movies are pretty much the same thing as today, with scenes of oral sex, girl-on-girl, etc.

I like to joke that Edison invented his kinetoscope in 1891, and that later that day someone used the device to photograph a sex scene.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: DoktorBob on January 19, 2015, 11:50:21 AM
I honestly find sex scenes on tv shows to be lazy time fillers. Yeah, it can often be a look into the psychology of the character but normally its more a look at the psychology of the director/writer or their perception of their audience.
I find it especially noticeable in period pieces where the sex and the participants bear no resemblance to what I read of sex during these periods. It tells me Im supposed to be turned on and not anything about the story being told. The lack of female body hair is a good thing to point to in that respect.
Supernatural is not something most people would point to as a great tv show but they did two sex scenes that I can recall which both spoke volumes about the characters involved. They did it in tropey ways but the tropes were totally at odds with what we had been shown of these characters to that point.

I recall reading John Cleland"s 1748 novel Fanny Hill, which was banned for years due to its heavy sex scenes. The book depicts sex common at the time, and really, it's little different from what you might expect to see on TV today. I suppose each generation thinks that it invented certain sexual practices. But really, most have been around forever.

Even film porn from the earliest days of movies are pretty much the same thing as today, with scenes of oral sex, girl-on-girl, etc.

I like to joke that Edison invented his kinetoscope in 1891, and that later that day someone used the device to photograph a sex scene.

hahahha, what a good joke.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 19, 2015, 11:03:06 PM
I watched Supernatural for a while. never got much sense of an overarching plot, a little too isolated episodes'y for me
(but I watched up to the point an angel became god, or something, so...I guess there is one)

I was hoping there would be an episode set in Stars Hollow one day.

The show basically takes the line demons and angels are both douchebags and both ego driven with humanity caught in the crossfire. The majority of angels in the show are worse than the demons and some of the demons are just as likable as the main characters.

As for plot the first 5 seasons? are driven by a single storyline, it gets resolved and then the show becomes more about family in general, and how we don't get to pick those we love the most... or how those we love hurt us the most... or cheese burgers.

In anycase, I love the show. It references itself in a few episodes and there is a running gag about fan fiction in which Sam and Dean are lovers and not brothers. Rare to find a show, even today, that doesn't take the medium too seriously and are willing to break up the format and take chances here and there.

We're not talking the Wire here, or the Shield. But...yeah... I look forward to the show constantly.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on January 19, 2015, 11:47:43 PM
I think Supernatural was one of the best shows on television up until the original showrunner left.

Spoiler
That would be the episode where Sam jumps in the cage with the devil and Michael, the final episode of the fifth season, which was the culmination of an arc they had been building since something like the ninth episode of the first season.
[close]

It had real character and plot arcs and it allowed the story and characters to grow and change, rather than myopically pursuing status quo. Sam and Dean are superbly acted and weren't reduced to caricatures until the show made a conscious choice to do so. At some point they decided to go after humor as often as they go after horror. The funny episodes are funny as hell but I think the horror episodes have become too bland.

Sure, it wasn't The Wire, but that's hardly criticism. The Wire is pretty much the best show ever.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on January 20, 2015, 12:33:08 AM
I watched Supernatural for a while. never got much sense of an overarching plot, a little too isolated episodes'y for me
(but I watched up to the point an angel became god, or something, so...I guess there is one)

I was hoping there would be an episode set in Stars Hollow one day.
I was about to ask the mods to bane you for this attack on Gilmore Girls but then I remembered that Jared "Dean" Padalecki is one of the stars of the show. Which, MEH. He is perhaps the most annoying recurring character on GG (Tristan / Chad Michael Murray might be worse, but at least he has the excuse of playing a douchebag). I remember watching the show at the time and being somewhat happy that for whatever reason Dean stopped being a major part of the show, although the flip side of that was that it gave more screen time to the overdrawn (but still 15% less annoying than Dean) Jess (played by Milo Ventimiglia).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on January 20, 2015, 12:45:48 AM
I watched Supernatural for a while. never got much sense of an overarching plot, a little too isolated episodes'y for me
(but I watched up to the point an angel became god, or something, so...I guess there is one)

I was hoping there would be an episode set in Stars Hollow one day.
I was about to ask the mods to bane you for this attack on Gilmore Girls but then I remembered that Jared "Dean" Padalecki is one of the stars of the show. Which, MEH. He is perhaps the most annoying recurring character on GG (Tristan / Chad Michael Murray might be worse, but at least he has the excuse of playing a douchebag). I remember watching the show at the time and being somewhat happy that for whatever reason Dean stopped being a major part of the show, although the flip side of that was that it gave more screen time to the overdrawn (but still 15% less annoying than Dean) Jess (played by Milo Ventimiglia).

Did Rory ever have a likable romantic interest? Of course her mother didn't always have the best taste in men so I guess she learned from the best. I actually came to Supernatural primed to hate it because of Dean, but Sam is much less annoying (despite being almost as whiny).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on January 20, 2015, 12:14:07 PM
I was about to ask the mods to bane you for this attack on Gilmore Girls but-
[/quote]

attack on Gilmore Girls? NEVER!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 21, 2015, 05:07:38 PM
Im a big Supernatural fan. Once you have watched a good cross section of it, the meta episodes are an absolute joy!
That highschool musical version of carry on my wayward son is on my phones playlist.
On ye olde sex- Yes, putting our bits in other peoples bits is likely the same as it ever was but standards of hygene and body hair preferences are vastly different. So Im more talking about the impossibility of certain "beauty" standards being presented. All those lithe ladies in GoT should have as much body hair as I do. Or most of them at least.
I cant imagine coitus being the olfactory joy we find today either.

So speaking of not the best. Just checked out Selfie and Ground Floor on the plane. Jesus!! Those are two unwatchable shows!!
I hating things that people may have worked hard on or could really affect their careers but holy hell....someone is responsible for the sheer awfulness of those shows and moreover the awfulness of the characters.
It was unbearable. And I had just watched Lucy from start to finish.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: goodthink on January 21, 2015, 09:55:05 PM
Im a big Supernatural fan. Once you have watched a good cross section of it, the meta episodes are an absolute joy!
That highschool musical version of carry on my wayward son is on my phones playlist.
On ye olde sex- Yes, putting our bits in other peoples bits is likely the same as it ever was but standards of hygene and body hair preferences are vastly different. So Im more talking about the impossibility of certain "beauty" standards being presented. All those lithe ladies in GoT should have as much body hair as I do. Or most of them at least.
I cant imagine coitus being the olfactory joy we find today either.

So speaking of not the best. Just checked out Selfie and Ground Floor on the plane. Jesus!! Those are two unwatchable shows!!
I hating things that people may have worked hard on or could really affect their careers but holy hell....someone is responsible for the sheer awfulness of those shows and moreover the awfulness of the characters.
It was unbearable. And I had just watched Lucy from start to finish.

Sex back then would have been rather odious. Pubic lice, poor hygiene-all-around, and the beauty standards were quite different. I hate how our preferences are cast backward, but then they are creating for an audience today. Just stop and think for a moment how prevalent various stds were, the lack of treatments and the like. Nothing like your cock or nose falling off, or pissing puss.  And the men back then would have stunk beyond any tolerable measure.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on January 22, 2015, 06:50:40 AM
Yeah, that's why people hated sex and wanted nothing to do with it for thousands of years. It's a miracle the human race survived at all.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 22, 2015, 08:01:38 AM
The point is that its being included in most shows simply to titilate rather than for any narrative value.
Its useful filler when they dont have 40min of material and it can help the tempo and the ratings but I find it really boring.
I actually think its a fascinating conversation but a bit of a derail I suppose.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Plastiq on January 22, 2015, 08:41:04 AM
The point is that its being included in most shows simply to titilate rather than for any narrative value.

God, I hate that.

Its useful filler when they dont have 40min of material and it can help the tempo and the ratings but I find it really boring.

Yup, lazy, and a straight up drag.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on January 22, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
Well personally I enjoy being titillated. I'm not sure why anybody wouldn't.

Anyway regardless of narrative value it's going to pretty damn rare that a sex scene is included in order to educate viewers about historical hygiene practices. If that's what you're looking for in a sex scene you'll probably never be satisfied.

In any event I think we can all agree that Game of Thrones is playing pretty fast and loose with history. I doubt the writers could even locate Westeros on a map.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on January 22, 2015, 03:29:50 PM
Sorry, Slick... I'm open to convincing but...

Gilmore Girls
I made it a season... I'm getting bored of the banter, how every conversation with Lorelai has to happen three times, first two she gets the sarcasm out of her system and then finally she takes it seriously and the scene can progress. She's really immature and self-centered... I guess that is the unspoken premise/pitch-line of the show-- imagine a 30 something mom raising a teen girl in an idyllic American small town, but here's the twist: the mother is actually the child!-- and the show really wouldn't stand without Lorelai's quirks and banter, but... it's just wearing thin to me. It's like trying to talk to a comedian, but they're "always on". I'm trying to do my usual gender-swap check to see if my male bias is showing, but I can't think of an equivalent male character to substitute. Maybe Sam Levine in Freaks and Geeks? But he was a kid... An adam Sandler role? Can anyone help there?

I think the main two dude love-interests are boring as hell, but I adore Rory, the grandparents, and all the secondary and tertiary characters. It's just all the time we have to spend in Lorelai's brain that turns me off.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on January 22, 2015, 03:55:47 PM
Well, I have a soft spot for flawed protagonists. I also think that GG really hits its stride around season 3 (and then kind of dies during season 6 and you probably want to avoid 7 altogether unless you really want to see closure from some of the characters for some reason). But yeah, absolutely it's about how Lorelai can be a bit of a snot and isn't terribly mature all the time. Rory I think starts to act more like a 16 year old (I guess 17 by that point) in the next and later seasons, and otherwise I agree that Emily and Richard are some of the most fun characters on the show.

And then, of course, I *like* the dialogue, the way it's overly done in the style of a 1930s era madcap comedy (which is pretty much what they're shooting for). If you find it something that you have to get past, then chances are that a. the other little touches that make the show something I find amusing and fun (the one-note townies, for instance, or the way it horribly fails the reverse Bechdel Test in most episodes) are also not going to be stuff that keeps you watching, and b. it may just not be the show for you. Hey, I can accept that you have execrable, pusillanimous tastes. It's cool.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: teethering on January 25, 2015, 11:29:32 PM
I finished Transparent season 1 and it really didn't get better much.  In fact with the exception of Tambor I hate all of them even more now.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on February 24, 2015, 11:09:34 AM
Not the very best, but quite good: 

I've started watching Justice League Unlimited.  There are so many animated costume shows out there that I can't keep straight which ones are supposed to be good and which ones are not, so I had no real expectations for this one.  I've found it quite enjoyable so far - it's gone in some directions I wouldn't have predicted.


Not the best and not that good:

Hulk and the Agents of SMASH.  I really enjoy Clancy Brown's over-the-top performance as Red Hulk, but that's about all this one has going for it.  It seems like it is directly and unapologetically aimed at younger kids, which is fine, but it doesn't ever really even give a nod to adults.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 24, 2015, 11:47:24 AM
JLU really affected me at times. Amd I agree 100% on Hulk. Its the strongest marvel cartoon there is (see what I did there?) right now.
Im finishing off Dexter right now. Season 3 was a chore becauase I hate Jimmy Smitts and his stoopid stoopid moustache. Also Dexter is too emotional for my liking.
Season 4 was brilliant, Jon Lithgow was complex and terrifying. On season 5 now, it features sad kids which are my achilles heel.

Watched both seasons of Peaky Blinders. A BBC crime drama set after WW1 based loosely on a real gang of the same name. Incredible cast but often very soap operaesque. Tom Hardy in season 2 gives one of his best performances ever. In a nutshell its about a gang of chavvy thugs who tread on and look down on decent people and do awful things with a sense of entitlement but its ok because they do it for "family" and they are kind to horses.
Some decent plots get derailed and spoiled by pointless love stories. Lots and lots of love stories.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 24, 2015, 12:09:05 PM
12 Monkeys. SyFy's attempt to get back onto the horse of producing good tv. Mostly meh. Reminds me more of Terminator than the Terry Gilliam movie. I like they take a more serious tone, scrubbing the humor. Some interesting time fuck mind fuck plots. I don't really buy the woman doctor so quickly accepting the time jumper's story. That might have been better developed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on February 24, 2015, 01:15:45 PM
I am finally giving up on 12 Monkeys I think. I keep putting it on and getting bored.

I thnk it suffers from having defined its goals too easily. Now they can't ever make actual prgress towards those goals because then the show would end very rapidly, or at the very least have to undergo a significant transformation. It would be cool if they chose the latter but it doesn't seem like that kind of show. Which means that pretty much any episode from now to the end of the series will be exactly the same.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 11, 2015, 02:50:58 PM
Da Vincis Demons.
What is this shit?! Da Vinci was a hipster and invented leather jackets and hairgel or something!
He has a photographic memory and can sketch anything he ever saw. Yet people still need to stand still to model for him.
He is all about science but puts alot of faith in a vision he had while taking opium.
Tailors in florence seem incapable of making a shirt whose V does not plunge down the abs.
And...he does that annoying tv genius thing where he gets all jittery and anti social.
Just everything in this show annoys me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on March 12, 2015, 09:39:13 AM
Da Vincis Demons.
What is this shit?! Da Vinci was a hipster and invented leather jackets and hairgel or something!
He has a photographic memory and can sketch anything he ever saw. Yet people still need to stand still to model for him.
He is all about science but puts alot of faith in a vision he had while taking opium.
Tailors in florence seem incapable of making a shirt whose V does not plunge down the abs.
And...he does that annoying tv genius thing where he gets all jittery and anti social.
Just everything in this show annoys me.

someone both smart and a great person in general seems like an implausible character. who's going to relate to that? the ticky nerdy types or the dumb socialites? both should feel upstaged and inferior, and we can hardly have an unrelateable perfect person as our protagonist! Imagine if House MD was also a model and MMA fighter in his spare time, rather than having unending pain to struggle with, and found polite ways to deal with people he disagreed with rather than being a douche. riveting!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: neverbug on March 12, 2015, 09:56:36 AM
Okay don't judge me for occasionally enjoying trashy "reality" TV shows, but Dance Moms has gone sooooo downhill. I actually used to like it in a "WHY am I even watching this?! Oh yeah, because it's so much fun!" kind of way, but now it's just unbearable. Everyone is so miserable, and it really sucks to see little kids subjected to so much drama and fighting from adults who should definitely know better. It's no fun to watch anymore, I can't see it lasting too much longer.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 12, 2015, 12:45:45 PM
Okay don't judge me for occasionally enjoying trashy "reality" TV shows, but Dance Moms has gone sooooo downhill. I actually used to like it in a "WHY am I even watching this?! Oh yeah, because it's so much fun!" kind of way, but now it's just unbearable. Everyone is so miserable, and it really sucks to see little kids subjected to so much drama and fighting from adults who should definitely know better. It's no fun to watch anymore, I can't see it lasting too much longer.

You are worse than HITLER!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 12, 2015, 03:18:10 PM
Da Vincis Demons.
What is this shit?! Da Vinci was a hipster and invented leather jackets and hairgel or something!
He has a photographic memory and can sketch anything he ever saw. Yet people still need to stand still to model for him.
He is all about science but puts alot of faith in a vision he had while taking opium.
Tailors in florence seem incapable of making a shirt whose V does not plunge down the abs.
And...he does that annoying tv genius thing where he gets all jittery and anti social.
Just everything in this show annoys me.

someone both smart and a great person in general seems like an implausible character. who's going to relate to that? the ticky nerdy types or the dumb socialites? both should feel upstaged and inferior, and we can hardly have an unrelateable perfect person as our protagonist! Imagine if House MD was also a model and MMA fighter in his spare time, rather than having unending pain to struggle with, and found polite ways to deal with people he disagreed with rather than being a douche. riveting!
After I wrote that post I watched a really good episode with Dracula in it.
Just watch that episode though. I realised David Goyer is the main writer on this show. Someday he and I will have a reckoning....
But yeah. Flaws added as an afterthought kind of annoy me because of the arrogance of thinking you have made a perfect character to begin with. And if they really are a mary sue then making them rude isnt going to solve the problem you have.
So anyway, Im in the home stretch now. Its the final thing on my hard drive that Ive yet to finish. In the latest episode he invented blood transfusions. Well...he "remembered" reading about it somewhere and insisted everyone wash their hands but didnt know why.

Edited because I screwed up the quote function.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lofgren on March 12, 2015, 03:32:14 PM
(http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ASMAnnual21banner-590x200.jpg)

Hi! I'm a brilliant self-trained materials engineer, an adventuring photojournalist, a swell guy who reformed my high school bullies just by being nice to them, wickedly funny, in perfect physical condition, a globe-trotting superhero, a celebrity with all of the fame and none of the baggage, and I ditched the millionaire heiress cat burglar who was always on my jock in order to marry the supermodel who lives next door.

Of course my enormous ego means that I feel pathological levels of guilt over literally everything that goes wrong in the world anywhere, but only because I'm so awesome that I probably could have prevented it if I hadn't been so busy being a great husband and son (nephew).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on March 13, 2015, 10:08:07 AM
(http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ASMAnnual21banner-590x200.jpg)

Hi! I'm a brilliant self-trained materials engineer, an adventuring photojournalist, a swell guy who reformed my high school bullies just by being nice to them, wickedly funny, in perfect physical condition, a globe-trotting superhero, a celebrity with all of the fame and none of the baggage, and I ditched the millionaire heiress cat burglar who was always on my jock in order to marry the supermodel who lives next door.

Of course my enormous ego means that I feel pathological levels of guilt over literally everything that goes wrong in the world anywhere, but only because I'm so awesome that I probably could have prevented it if I hadn't been so busy being a great husband and son (nephew).

I know nothing of the comic book world, but I've never seen a spiderman movie I liked.

apparently they just keep doing BS remakes of spiderman movies in order to retain the IP rights that prevents anyone else from doing something with it. kinda hilarious--do something hopefully to at least break even, just so you can prevent the competition from making a profit off it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 13, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
Except they failed so hard that spiderman will be in the next Avengers movie.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on March 15, 2015, 01:52:06 AM
So for some reason I've been watching episodes of "What's My Line?" from the mid-1950s on YouTube. On the one hand, it's fascinating to see stars of the era, people who, if they're alive at all are quite old now, juxtaposed with people who work at normal, every day jobs in the era (the gist of the show is that a panel of 4 people tried to guess what occupation a contestant had, and often they'd have on celebrity guests that the panel would have to figure out outright). The show also has this real "thing" about dressing up. The men all wear tuxes or formal dinner jackets and the women on the program (and there are 2 recurring female panelists) are made to wear evening gowns every week.

The thing that makes it a constant face-palming experience for me other than the pure history-nerd-gasm that it is is how the show is so obviously cooked. It's just dumb sometimes, the way the panel will appear to be completely stumped by someone until one of them out of the blue is just like "so, do you in fact sell orange brassieres at Woolworth's?". Looking it up, it appears that the events surrounding the Quiz Show scandal had occurred before the shows I'm watching (they came out in late 1956) but the actual scandal didn't happen for another two years, so I wonder if they got a little less, um, hippodrome-like (to borrow a phrase from 19th century baseball) after that. These shows, among other things, just make you wonder how people could be so gullible. I mean, even not knowing about the scandal (and before looking it up just now I had kind of figured this came out after the scandal and assumed they couldn't be doing any hanky-panky), it is soooo bleeding obvious about 15-25% of the time. All I can say is, I guess the 50s were a less skeptical time...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on March 15, 2015, 01:53:26 AM
dola,

On the other other hand

Quote from: actual thing I just heard asked on this show
Do you work at a job polishing animals?
YES SIR I AM A PROFESSIONAL HORSE POLISHER (note: not the actual response)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 21, 2015, 01:42:40 PM
I was really enjoying Banshee through season 1, season 2 was pretty decent, season 3 is almost unwatchable.
Im not fully up to date yet but it seems like they have just stopped trying to have plausible excuses for fight scenes at this point. No ones relationships or motivations make sense. Im being asked to care about a bunch of people who really arent very interesting.
Every word of dialogue that comes out of the military villains mouth is absurd and peoples fighting skills seem to be as good or as bad as the plot needs them to be to make a point. Theres just no continuity in peoples abilities and it seems like being really sad that one time turns just about everyone into Jason Bourne.
Aside from that, I cringe everytime a native american character puts paint on their face, uses a bow against a gun, throws a tomahawk (despite having more than one gun) or talks about spirits. And all those things happen quite a bit if Im not mistaken.

Bonus complaint- Theres a really awful scene where a mother and father show up to a house party to get their daughter and end up in a stupid martial arts brawl before they get her so they can go home and fuck. Fucking=reconciliation.
And for a show hinged on its fights, the choreography seems to have been taken over by a wwe coordinator who likes van damme movies.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 09, 2015, 09:17:25 PM
Didn't there used to be a thread on Orphan Black?

Anyrate, pretty good but for one glaring stupidity that kinda drives the plot.   They've established that the clones are part of some illegal experiment early on.   Then later they're all freaked out when they discover their genes have been patented.  How do you patent an illegal invention.  Legal protection for illegal activity?  They bring it up every episode now and it just seems so stupid that nobodies said, "this was illegal in the first place, how do the bad guys think their going to exercise their patent rights?   Oh and by the way I'm pretty sure I can argue in court that I'm still a human being regardless of this dumbass patent.   What does anyone think the patent will give whoever created them the right to do anyway?  Harvest their genes against their will? 

That whole thing is dumb and wasn't necessary, there was already enough tension with the whole, who created us, why and who the hell is killing us stuff. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 10, 2015, 09:29:12 AM
Yeah Orphan Black is really driven by the lead actress and her ability to believably switch roles. It's shot in Toronto and really does have that "BBC money, made-in-Canada feel." Degrassi Jr High Tech Cloning.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on April 10, 2015, 09:43:35 AM
Yeah Orphan Black is really driven by the lead actress and her ability to believably switch roles. It's shot in Toronto and really does have that "BBC money, made-in-Canada feel." Degrassi Jr High Tech Cloning.

Yeah, she is amazing. One of my great TV change the past projects is to go back in time and have her be the lead in Dollhouse.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on April 10, 2015, 10:04:05 AM
Can we bitch about broke girls? That show pisses me off, and it pisses me off that it get high enough ratings to warrant so many dam seasons....
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on April 10, 2015, 10:44:26 AM
Can we bitch about broke girls? That show pisses me off, and it pisses me off that it get high enough ratings to warrant so many dam seasons....

Haha I'm seeing this as your "paleo diet" issue. Soon every post on the forum  on any topic will end up devolving into a debate about Broke Girls.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on April 10, 2015, 11:18:04 AM
Can we bitch about broke girls? That show pisses me off, and it pisses me off that it get high enough ratings to warrant so many dam seasons....

Haha I'm seeing this as your "paleo diet" issue. Soon every post on the forum  on any topic will end up devolving into a debate about Broke Girls.

Seems like it, its just the stupidest thing on television right now, and I cant believe its popular.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Plastiq on April 10, 2015, 11:23:42 AM
Seems like it, its just the stupidest thing on television right now, and I cant believe its popular.

Jeez, I have that thought about most things on TV. I can't believe the success of 99% of the shit they play.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 10, 2015, 12:09:23 PM
Yeah Orphan Black is really driven by the lead actress and her ability to believably switch roles. It's shot in Toronto and really does have that "BBC money, made-in-Canada feel." Degrassi Jr High Tech Cloning.
You live in a world where 2 1/2 men was the number one show for like 10 years.  Get used to it man.  It wasn't any better in the past either, 3 company was the number one show for something like five years. 

Yeah Orphan Black is really driven by the lead actress and her ability to believably switch roles. It's shot in Toronto and really does have that "BBC money, made-in-Canada feel." Degrassi Jr High Tech Cloning.
I'm not complaining about the obviously CanCon feel of the show but the one plot element which they seem to think is important but really isn't and every time they bring it up it role my eyes and it really knocks out my suspension of disbelief.  A plot point that isn't at all needed or important. 

I suspect the writers think its obvious that the gene patent ratchets up the stake so they don't need to explain it but since it doesn't actually ratchet up the stakes, its really annoying to me.  Politcs side note of little significance follows:
Spoiler
  There's also a scene early in the show where they portray Thatcher's England like it was East Germany of the time with dissidents being spirited out of the country which just makes the characters seem paranoid to me.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 11, 2015, 02:22:59 AM
Can we bitch about broke girls? That show pisses me off, and it pisses me off that it get high enough ratings to warrant so many dam seasons....

Haha I'm seeing this as your "paleo diet" issue. Soon every post on the forum  on any topic will end up devolving into a debate about Broke Girls.

Seems like it, its just the stupidest thing on television right now, and I cant believe its popular.

think how long MadTV was on for... and imagine taking away the remotely sophisticated sketch comedy format and reducing it to just formulaic sitcom that any dullard is used to ... of course it's going to thrive.

what amazes me is how some people still think so highly of Big Bang Theory.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on April 13, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
I watched the first two episodes of Forever, and... I feel like it has like a 5% chance of turning into something good but as it stands there's like a 95% chance that if it lasts it's just going to be House: The Vampire. The pilot episode is really, really poorly written in that special "oh my god this is our only chance to sell this show, let's stick EVERYTHING WE DO INTO IT" way that pilots often have. There's just too much exposition by dialogue and baldly stating where and what everything in the world is that is not only not necessary but constrains the show in the future, I think.

I do think it has a shot at being something else. Shows do do this from time to time; in fact, the first season of really good shows is very rarely up to the same level of awesome as the rest of the show (Parks and Recreation and the US version of The Office are notorious offenders in this regard). But man... it's got to get a lot better.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on June 08, 2015, 09:06:20 AM
Anyone watching Twin Pines?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on June 08, 2015, 09:48:34 AM
Anyone watching Twin Pines?

I seriously thought about considering probably maybe giving it a try.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Plastiq on June 08, 2015, 02:41:52 PM
The Flash belongs in this thread. What a disappointment.  :(
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on June 17, 2015, 12:37:26 PM
I've just binged a few eps of Orphan Black.  I am through episode 7 and while the show is OK, there is so much wasted potential.  Maslany is truly brilliant but the show has so many plot holes and dumb moments that I find myself yelling at the TV. 

The show could really benefit from a 24 episode season, to let us have a few filler episodes where we see fun clone things once in a while, and let the show and the characters breathe.  I am already close to my breaking point of conspiracy nonsense, but spacing eps out and having some episodes as more stand alone Vs other conspiracy heavy eps would have lessened that feeling or prolonged it at least.  Personally, I find that with these kinds of shows, I get sick of the ever increasingly complex conspiracies at some point and stop watching.

Lastly, the show believes that being a clone is a lot more interesting and exciting a plot point than it actually is. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 17, 2015, 01:51:50 PM
My biggest problem with the show, the whole patent thing was just silly.  The clones are already part of some illegal experiment.  How do they think someone patented that and how is that suppose to ratchet up the tension?  The writers seem to think it does and it self evident that it does but it doesn't. 

I quite like the conspiracy stuff though, but I think you're right, it would be a better show if they ran it like the X-files with alternate, conspiracy eps and introduce a random new clone or what not eps.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on June 17, 2015, 04:09:18 PM
Season 3 of Orphan Black has been a chore for me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on June 18, 2015, 11:22:05 AM
Orphan Black I think is the first sci fi show for the LGBT community without being directly marketed as that. They've got lesbians, twink rent boys, twink soldiers, and the nuclear straight suburban family is hella dysfunctional. I think maybe the show has found its audience and is writing more towards its audience.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 18, 2015, 12:15:42 PM
Orphan Black I think is the first sci fi show for the LGBT community without being directly marketed as that. They've got lesbians, twink rent boys, twink soldiers, and the nuclear straight suburban family is hella dysfunctional. I think maybe the show has found its audience and is writing more towards its audience.

One of my issues with the show is that the writers clearly wear their politics on their sleeves.  The bad guys are weird christians and corporations, thatcher's England was something akin to East Germany, etc.  Not quite to the point of typical christian entertainment, where the message matters more than entertainment but it's close at times. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on June 18, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
Oh yeah. Good point. Ah.Hell.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 29, 2015, 01:12:33 PM
Im on season 3 of New Girl (options are slim right now) and its an awful show about awful people.
It tries way too hard, the actual friendships are in no way believable and they keep making a point of noting peooles ethnicity which is really weird.
Also, it seems like all the white people get to have real problems and depth while the black guy just kind of wanders into scenes and says random stuff based on whatever his random obsession that week seems to be.
Its a shame because the actors are all, without exception, really good. Its just an awful, awful show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Boßel on June 29, 2015, 01:34:40 PM
The Flash belongs in this thread. What a disappointment.  :(

 >:(
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 29, 2015, 04:34:43 PM
Im on season 3 of New Girl (options are slim right now) and its an awful show about awful people.
It tries way too hard, the actual friendships are in no way believable and they keep making a point of noting peooles ethnicity which is really weird.
Also, it seems like all the white people get to have real problems and depth while the black guy just kind of wanders into scenes and says random stuff based on whatever his random obsession that week seems to be.
Its a shame because the actors are all, without exception, really good. Its just an awful, awful show.
I can't disagree with you but I think I like the show a little more than you.  The central romance is fairly pointless and unfunny as well.  It feels like its trying to split the difference between friends and seinfeld but never quite works. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on June 29, 2015, 07:38:27 PM
Im on season 3 of New Girl (options are slim right now) and its an awful show about awful people.
It tries way too hard, the actual friendships are in no way believable and they keep making a point of noting peooles ethnicity which is really weird.
Also, it seems like all the white people get to have real problems and depth while the black guy just kind of wanders into scenes and says random stuff based on whatever his random obsession that week seems to be.
Its a shame because the actors are all, without exception, really good. Its just an awful, awful show.
I feel like it took a turn for the better around midway through Season 2. It was horrible to start out, that's for sure, and the people aren't too great. I've called it a lighter It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and I think that stands.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Plastiq on July 21, 2015, 01:23:03 AM
Vikings has really lost me. The first season was great, next one much less so because the tension with the old leader was dealt with, and now I just don't care. Plus, the credence they give to the mysticism is aggravating. Don't think I'll continue with it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on July 21, 2015, 09:32:09 AM
Vikings has really lost me. The first season was great, next one much less so because the tension with the old leader was dealt with, and now I just don't care. Plus, the credence they give to the mysticism is aggravating. Don't think I'll continue with it.

Agreed. After a couple seasons, I found it harder to follow. Haven't watched the most recent season.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on July 21, 2015, 11:40:29 AM
I agree on vikings.  I've been about halfway through the second season for 6 months.  Just don't really care enough to go back.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on July 21, 2015, 11:52:19 AM
Viking sure seems to have defined a generation of gym dude haircuts, however.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Plastiq on July 21, 2015, 01:11:28 PM
Real shame, I loved the first season.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 21, 2015, 01:36:54 PM
Your post really summed up how I feel about the show. Two friends have walk on parts and I cant even be bothered sticking around for those episodes.
And yes, the haircuts. The show has inspired me to go down a rabbit hole of historical european martial arts youtube videos though, and those are fascinating.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on July 28, 2015, 07:21:54 AM
I almost started a new thread for "Shows that used to be good but oh god why are they still going on?" but this thread seems to fit the bill as well.

I altogether stopped watching Orphan Black after one episode this season, the show completely lost its charm and its point.
Falling Skies is REALLY bad this season but for some reason I can't stop watching. I wish they'd just kill off Pope and rid us of this ridiculous cliche of a pointless character and focus instead on the actual war.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on July 28, 2015, 07:47:41 AM
I am with you on Orphan Black.  The male clones are cliched, overacted, not as spooky as they think, and boring.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 28, 2015, 08:09:59 AM
And again- I totally agree with people!
I finished season one of Sleepy Hollow, that show is great! Cranes horror at discovering Thomas Jeffersons secrets going from disbelief to "Well. You think you know somebody"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on July 28, 2015, 12:00:04 PM
I agree on Orphan Black but it sorta lost me about 2/3's through last season. 

Falling Skies was never really any good but I'll probably keep watching to the end. 
 
Orphan Black is still probably a better show than Falling Skies ever was but FS never had any potential while OB has squandered a good premise, better beginning and two or three really great characters.  The only interesting clones were introduced in the first episode. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on August 06, 2015, 05:40:23 PM
Blacklist

Just finished the first season.  Like Orphan black, it has a great premise buy lousy follow through.  The background mystery/conspiracy keeps me watching but the writing is really quite bad.  It would likely be total crap except for James Spader.   I'm not sure when he became such a compelling presence.   
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Naturebox on August 07, 2015, 07:03:09 AM
Any of you guys who have access should watch Humans, its a UK TV series with only 8 episodes (one hour each) in series 1 done so far. It's based on an alternative reality where we have already developed the technology to create synthetic androids. One episode was enough to get me hooked
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on August 07, 2015, 10:29:33 AM
I'm struggling to give a fuck about any aspect of Humans. up to ep 4 or 5, I can't even remember.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on August 13, 2015, 12:16:06 PM
Blacklist

Just finished the first season.  Like Orphan black, it has a great premise buy lousy follow through.  The background mystery/conspiracy keeps me watching but the writing is really quite bad.  It would likely be total crap except for James Spader.   I'm not sure when he became such a compelling presence.

Around the time he could only get off after being in a car accident (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115964/).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on August 14, 2015, 10:36:48 AM
I'm struggling to give a fuck about any aspect of Humans. up to ep 4 or 5, I can't even remember.

Spoiler
They really underused William Hurt's character. This philosopher scientist you figured would have a bigger plot and they just ended up killing him.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 14, 2015, 10:51:53 AM
Gah Extant is so lose to being good that it was too frustrating and I had to stop.

It;s like that A+ student who keeps turning in B work because he's lazy.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 08, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Gary: Tank Commander

British sitcom about a guy on leave from the military.  I generally like British tv including comedies.  I think this is mostly Scottish.  The accents are pretty thick.  I'm usually pretty good with that but its a bit much on this show.  Maybe if it were funnier I might stick with it. 

Doc Martin, the british version of northern exposure.  A big city surgeon develops a blood phobia and has to become the general practitioner for a small Cornish village.  He's kind of a more extreme example of me.  Both smarter and more socially awkward.  I have a lot of sympathy for the main character.  I do like that the brits use actors that are less than supermodels. 

Ascenison  A SyFy show where a bunch of folks are on a generation ship to another planet and mystery ensues.  Lots of hot chicks which is nice after all those british actors I mentioned above.  The science isn't great buts ok. 

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on September 08, 2015, 12:45:05 AM
I'm struggling to give a fuck about any aspect of Humans. up to ep 4 or 5, I can't even remember.

Spoiler
They really underused William Hurt's character. This philosopher scientist you figured would have a bigger plot and they just ended up killing him.
[close]

and maybe in a better show they would have, but it seems like the creators maybe wanted to make a moral tale about Europe's immigration crisis and good loving British families being accepting of alien people as nevertheless people who matter just like they do.
I mean, it really stinks of an after-school special, in retrospect, to me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 29, 2015, 12:36:04 PM
How to Get Away With Murder

First six episodes left me unable to wait to see what happens next.  Then the big reveal and I'm all, "WTF, that makes no sense, why would they do that"  They're law students, don't they know anything about the law?  And she's a supposedly great defense attorney?  And why the f#$# does a class called 'Defense 100' exist and isn't hiring a bunch of students in your class as interns a conflict of......."

It never made sense but half way through the season its not entertaining enough to make me ignore all of that shit.  Shonda Rhymes is really an expert at going off the rails.

Good thing schools starting, I'll have to be more selective in my TV viewing. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on September 29, 2015, 03:55:40 PM
I've probably already brought it up here, but the epitome of poor writing is Ray Donovan. I enjoy the show. It's kind of fun. But I've never seen a show with so many blatant plot holes and important pieces glossed over or ignored. The acting is also really bad with a lot of the main characters (particularly Ray, his wife, and his father). Some of the supporting roles are great actors (the black brother, the brother with parkinson's) but overall it's one dud after another.

I'd love the show if I could watch it every week in the context of an ironic show watching party where we shout at the plot holes as they occur.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on September 29, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
How to Get Away With Murder

First six episodes left me unable to wait to see what happens next.  Then the big reveal and I'm all, "WTF, that makes no sense, why would they do that"  They're law students, don't they know anything about the law?  And she's a supposedly great defense attorney?  And why the f#$# does a class called 'Defense 100' exist and isn't hiring a bunch of students in your class as interns a conflict of......."

It never made sense but half way through the season its not entertaining enough to make me ignore all of that shit.  Shonda Rhymes is really an expert at going off the rails.

Good thing schools starting, I'll have to be more selective in my TV viewing.

You can really tell a writting style with shows like that (and books, comics). Some people plan out the plot ahead of time. Some people write themselves into a corner and have to go with something ill fitting or cliche to get out... I think thats what happened with "How to get away with murder"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 30, 2015, 12:45:12 PM
Scream Queens. Some interesting writing, from the "oh, dear, I can't believe they said that." Reminds me of Glee in the first season. Same kind of writing. But, alas, Glee realized people were tuning in for the show tunes and there was major cash to be made on iTunes. So they jettisoned the clever writing and gave us more show tunes. I gave up.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 04, 2015, 06:28:24 AM
Quantico- I saw the pilot this week, its basically high school drama in the FBI academy but one of them is a terrorist. They are all super hot, super emotional and written the way a dumb person thinks smart people might be. The actual proceedural parts are incredibly dumbed down and it tries too hard to make the FBI look like a Jason Bourne factory.

Graceland- I was really loving this show even though its always been heavy on the cheese and liberal with realism but season 3 is just dumb. The amount of crimes they are racking up is crazy (supplying alcohol to an underage girl, drugging said girl, accessories to murder and kidnapping?) And I can deal with all that but now one of them had a near death experience and theres all this bullshit about visions and buddhism.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on October 13, 2015, 10:29:31 AM
I've completely given up on Sleepy Hollow.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 13, 2015, 10:40:22 AM
I've completely given up on Sleepy Hollow.
Im close but I misght be an episode or two behind you.
Ive gotten so sick of Ichabods inexplicable sex appeal, the shows selective memory for whats already been established (does Crane respect Jackson or not?) and the inexplicable use of what appears to be a pump action crossbow.
Things were looking up once they got rid of the annoying Indiana Jones clone.
Also, I can buy headless horsemen and ghosts but Mills  applied, was accepted to and finished training for the FBI and got posted to her home town all in 9months?
Does Sleepy Hollow even need a field office?
Nope.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 13, 2015, 12:54:21 PM
The Bastard Executioner.


did you enjoy Rome, Vikings, and Game of Thrones?
then perhaps you'd like a boring pastiche while you wait for more period violence. even so, you'll struggle to like this.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on October 13, 2015, 03:21:13 PM
The Grinder may or may not wind up on my "Best" list. It's a single-camera sitcom that is a pretty extreme parody of lawyer shows, so extreme that it's not always obvious that it's parodizing them or just deciding to wrap the show up using the same tropes that the lawyer shows do. That being said, there were some laugh out loud moments in the first episode (one of which, for me anyway, involved Rob Lowe deciding to bring over his Park and Rec character's liberal overuse of the word "literally") and the cast is kind of awesome (you've got Lowe, Fred Savage, and Sweet Dee from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia). If the writing holds up (and I'm unfamiliar with the lead writer), it could be pretty good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 22, 2015, 03:19:39 PM
Tried two new shows-
The Assets: Mini series about Aldrich Ames. The acting was off. All the russian characters seemed like cartoon characters and the set up wasnt that exciting.

Strikeback season 3:
Two people close to me love this. I told them I found the first series unwatchable (Chris Ryan sucks) but they told me season 3 is where it gets good. I made it 10minutes in. The dialogue was just so embarrassing. Why cant the brits do spy drama properly?! They dont even do James Bond anymore. This show is like Ultimate Force with production values as far as I can see.

I started the new Homeland season. This show has just decided to go all out and make everything the CIA does, the right thing to do. Anyone who disagrees just doesnt "get it"
It was annoyingly politically biased but pretty entertaining.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on October 22, 2015, 03:22:47 PM
Yeah, I quit on Homeland too. It's gotten boring and static and NOTHING IS HAPPENING.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 27, 2015, 11:05:52 AM
I still haven't finished The Killing season 1, it got so boring I forgot where I even got up to. worse than the second season of True Detective.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 27, 2015, 11:25:59 AM
I still haven't finished The Killing season 1, it got so boring I forgot where I even got up to. worse than the second season of True Detective.
I skipped every single scene that wasnt the detectives figuring out clues and it became far better. Each episode was also only about 20min then.
But I was still pretty underwhelmed by the end and if you have other options I would take them.

The same friend who recommended it, brow beat me into watching Black Sails which is a prequel to Treasure Island with zero likeable characters and no real point. Most of the actors are rubbish and most of the "look how badass I am" women are annoying. Theres also a weird guy who never wears a shirt and in some scenes you can actually see the make up lines that are his drawn on abs. Im not even joking.
I finished the first season and told him it was awful, but I was annoyed into watching the second season where it "gets good"
Spoilers- It doesnt get good. Its still pointless and drawn out and trying to be edgy by having smelly looking men murder each other for silly reasons to show how ruthless they are.
Its actually less watchable than Da Vincis Demons. Though its existence is not such an affront to my sensibilities.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 28, 2015, 10:07:33 AM
The same friend who recommended it, brow beat me into watching Black Sails which is a prequel to Treasure Island with zero likeable characters and no real point.

lol. I didn't mind that show, but, as you say, there isn't exactly any substance, there (which puts it in the ranks of The Bastard Executioner, except it was actually fun to watch). I enjoyed the ride, and would've been happy to watch a season 3 if there was one at the time. I dunno how I'll feel about season 3 without the benefit of marathoning into it.

Spoilers- It doesnt get good. Its still pointless and drawn out and trying to be edgy by having smelly looking men murder each other for silly reasons to show how ruthless they are.

Sons of Anarchy tried to do the same thing, but IMO was so much worse.

Theres also a weird guy who never wears a shirt and in some scenes you can actually see the make up lines that are his drawn on abs. Im not even joking.

lol, never noticed.

hot chick was hot, however. I thought they chose her because of her resemblance ( in my mind at least) to Keira Knightly or whoever it was in those Pirates movies
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on October 28, 2015, 02:54:31 PM
I still haven't finished The Killing season 1, it got so boring I forgot where I even got up to. worse than the second season of True Detective.

US or Danish version?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 29, 2015, 12:08:23 AM
I still haven't finished The Killing season 1, it got so boring I forgot where I even got up to. worse than the second season of True Detective.

US or Danish version?


US.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on October 29, 2015, 09:14:00 AM
I still haven't finished The Killing season 1, it got so boring I forgot where I even got up to. worse than the second season of True Detective.

US or Danish version?


US.

The Danish version was pretty good. At least to me. You can "find" "versions" floating around "you know" with English subtitles.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 07, 2015, 11:18:27 AM
Watched an episode of Backstrom on the plane.
HOLY CRAP THATS BAD TV!!!
Its Dr House with a more dickish and less competant protagonist.
The big breakthrough in the pilot comes from the detectives having a televised prayer circle. The sub plot is that the preacher detective needs to save his church.
Spoilers- God helps them find the missing girl AND saves the church and all the characters you would peg as atheists are there.
It was a shocking bit of christian and FOX propaganda.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on November 07, 2015, 11:28:34 AM
I actually liked the show, I think your reading a bit much into the christian theme actually.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 07, 2015, 05:48:22 PM
I actually liked the show, I think your reading a bit much into the christian theme actually.
I dont think thats possible. The god botherer is constant throughout wondering about gods plan for him.
When all hope is lost, they guilt the main character into joining a prayer circle. In front of the tv cameras. This is how he has his major breakthrough.
At the end, the god botherer attributes the success in the case to the power of prayer and it had the bonus effect of saving his church. Which everyone now bizarrely attends.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on November 09, 2015, 09:18:39 AM
Danger 5? Is it worth watching? Is there nudity?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on November 09, 2015, 09:33:35 AM
Watched an episode of Backstrom on the plane.
HOLY CRAP THATS BAD TV!!!
Its Dr House with a more dickish and less competant protagonist.
The big breakthrough in the pilot comes from the detectives having a televised prayer circle. The sub plot is that the preacher detective needs to save his church.
Spoilers- God helps them find the missing girl AND saves the church and all the characters you would peg as atheists are there.
It was a shocking bit of christian and FOX propaganda.

From the first ad for that show, it was obvious it was trying to capitalize on the (still relevant??) House vibe.  Which was a turn-off.

This pretty much convinces me to say away from it.  And my interest was already pretty low.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on November 09, 2015, 10:20:03 AM
Danger 5? Is it worth watching? Is there nudity?
I think it's pretty damn hilarious, although it is very much a send-up of 1960s era adventure shows and turns the camp all the way up to 11 so if you're not into that sort of thing you'll just find it annoying. As for nudity I don't remember any, although sometimes (often, come to think of it) one of the female leads on the show is scantily clad for one reason or another.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on November 10, 2015, 09:55:34 AM
Watched an episode of Backstrom on the plane.
HOLY CRAP THATS BAD TV!!!
Its Dr House with a more dickish and less competant protagonist.
The big breakthrough in the pilot comes from the detectives having a televised prayer circle. The sub plot is that the preacher detective needs to save his church.
Spoilers- God helps them find the missing girl AND saves the church and all the characters you would peg as atheists are there.
It was a shocking bit of christian and FOX propaganda.

From the first ad for that show, it was obvious it was trying to capitalize on the (still relevant??) House vibe.  Which was a turn-off.

This pretty much convinces me to say away from it.  And my interest was already pretty low.
Personally, I think his review is pretty off base.  Don't get me wrong, it belongs in the "not the very best tv" thread but the propaganda comment is just weird.  I've seen the whole series and found it entertaining.   Not great but not the show Harry describes either. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on November 10, 2015, 09:57:27 AM
I actually liked the show, I think your reading a bit much into the christian theme actually.
I dont think thats possible. The god botherer is constant throughout wondering about gods plan for him.
When all hope is lost, they guilt the main character into joining a prayer circle. In front of the tv cameras. This is how he has his major breakthrough.
At the end, the god botherer attributes the success in the case to the power of prayer and it had the bonus effect of saving his church. Which everyone now bizarrely attends.
God hardly comes up in the series and pretty much every other character is a non-theist.  So they attend his church once to support a friend.  Honestly, I barely noticed the god subplot so it really seems weird to me how big an impact that had on you. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on December 15, 2015, 09:47:21 PM
so, I'm about 5 episodes in, now.

apparently Friday Night Lights is a soap opera for men.

here I thought WWE already had that covered. I guess this was more of a couples-friendly one.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 16, 2015, 04:55:53 AM
so, I'm about 5 episodes in, now.

apparently Friday Night Lights is a soap opera for men.

here I thought WWE already had that covered. I guess this was more of a couples-friendly one.
Thats how I felt about Mad Men after the first few plot arcs
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on December 16, 2015, 05:11:23 AM
haven't seen that one yet. might have to give it a solid miss!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on December 16, 2015, 08:51:25 AM
Childhood's end. Worth it?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on December 16, 2015, 09:28:46 AM
Childhood's end. Worth it?

Ooh! For realsies! 

Clarke is my fave Sci-Fi author.....I really hope this one is good!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on December 16, 2015, 01:34:05 PM
The badlands is fun. Not great, the acting can be pretty bad but like the mix of styles. Martial arts mixed with almost steam punk/Victorian styles while its location resembles the deep south.  I hope it gets better as it goes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on December 16, 2015, 01:36:22 PM
I seem to recall Clarke was paid a $1 million advance to write Rendezvous with Rama, Imperial Earth, and The Fountains of Paradise. It was huge coin at the time and Clarke one of the best paid authors at the time. In retrospect, the publishing company likely got a deal.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on December 16, 2015, 01:38:39 PM
I seem to recall Clarke was paid a $1 million advance to write Rendezvous with Rama, Imperial Earth, and The Fountains of Paradise. It was huge coin at the time and Clarke one of the best paid authors at the time. In retrospect, the publishing company likely got a deal.

Not such a deal - it's not like an advance is all the author will get.  They'll still get their negotiated share of sales above and beyond the advance.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on December 21, 2015, 08:37:05 PM
Okay, maybe not the best, but Z-Nationis a fun little show. Rather than try to be another Walking Dead, this show has another take on the zombie apocalypse. This dramedy is done much more tongue-in-check (z-weed, anyone?), and with a good dose of humor. The writing is good, the acting is good, and the plot lines are original. The zombies are as well done, and sometimes better done, than the more popular show. It also has fast zombies. The second season is better than the first, and I'm hoping for more in the future.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 21, 2015, 08:38:42 PM
+1 on ZNation.
They have done some stuff Ive never seen in zombie fiction before.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 21, 2015, 09:01:19 PM
Is there significant improvement following the pilot?   I quit partway through the pilot but lots of shows improve afterward so, is there a chance I'll like the show if I didn't like the pilot?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on December 21, 2015, 09:08:46 PM
Is there significant improvement following the pilot?   I quit partway through the pilot but lots of shows improve afterward so, is there a chance I'll like the show if I didn't like the pilot?

The plot straightens out significantly in Season 2. I think it's pretty obvious that the show's budget was upped for the second season. By the end of the first season the situation is pretty well set, actually.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 21, 2015, 09:14:11 PM
Is there significant improvement following the pilot?   I quit partway through the pilot but lots of shows improve afterward so, is there a chance I'll like the show if I didn't like the pilot?

The plot straightens out significantly in Season 2. I think it's pretty obvious that the show's budget was upped for the second season. By the end of the first season the situation is pretty well set, actually.
So, can I skip the first season?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on December 21, 2015, 09:26:33 PM
You might read the plot summaries online.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on January 29, 2016, 01:47:56 PM
We started Mad dogs, the Amazon original show. It's OK, good cast and pacing. The story pulls you in and is shot in a tropical paradise but man do they do some stupid things. Yes this is a show where everything gets worse for the group, it’s a constant downward spiral but it has some major plot/character holes. Still it’s entertaining and not horrible, just not the best.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on January 30, 2016, 11:26:39 AM
We started Mad dogs, the Amazon original show. It's OK, good cast and pacing. The story pulls you in and is shot in a tropical paradise but man do they do some stupid things. Yes this is a show where everything gets worse for the group, it’s a constant downward spiral but it has some major plot/character holes. Still it’s entertaining and not horrible, just not the best.

I'm having a blast with this show. I'm halfway through now. I was worried at one point in episodes 3 and 4 because there were some reveals that I thought might make the show less interesting, but it turned around somewhat in episode 5.

There's a lot of ridiculous things, and definitely some plot holes, but overall it's a fun ride.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on January 30, 2016, 11:38:47 AM
After rereading what I wrote it sounds more negative than I really meant. I have been enjoying mad dags and recommended it to friends.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 10, 2016, 10:18:41 PM
Its on Hulu so Im going to mention Videogame Highschool.
Its worth watching for the action scenes alone. They outdo anything on any tv show period. Drift racing, Call of Duty style combat scenes with genuine fist pumping moments.
It splices video game tropes with highschool tropes and one of the characters (The Law) is genuinely interesting and laugh out loud funny.
The problem with it is that the non videogame stuff in seasons 1 and 2 seems like it was written for the nickelodeom audience. Seasons 3 tries to be more adult but that actually makes it worse because they misstep on the emotional scenes and mix them (or try to mix them) with humour, which seems really inappropriate.
Theres some great cameos in it (Tony Hawk, Zach Levi and one or two more faces you might recognise) but overall Id call it really worth watching if you skip ahead during the character scenes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: jt512 on February 11, 2016, 01:47:03 AM
I think it's pretty damn hilarious, although it is very much a send-up of 1960s era adventure shows and turns the camp all the way up to 11 so if you're not into that sort of thing you'll just find it annoying. As for nudity I don't remember any, although sometimes (often, come to think of it) one of the female leads on the show is scantily clad for one reason or another.

Based on your recommendation, I just watched the first episode.  Definitely the weirdest thing I've ever seen on TV.  Like a live-action Adult Swim.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on February 18, 2016, 05:00:33 PM
The 100 is not good.
It's terribly written, cliché ridden, badly acted, Dawson-casted, fan-servicing, badly written... And did I mention badly written?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on February 19, 2016, 02:57:05 AM
The 100 is not good.
It's terribly written, cliché ridden, badly acted, Dawson-casted, fan-servicing, badly written... And did I mention badly written?

It does get better as time goes on. Many stupidities remain and there is always someone wearing the annoying git hat, but it does get much better than how it began.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on February 19, 2016, 03:12:28 AM
I tried "Transparent" on Amazon and as much as I want to like it for the story, I can't stand the cast. Moira is wonderful, but the children just UGH! Like just one...give me one character who's core character motivation is something other than "LOOK AT ME BE DAMAGED AND STUFF"

"Bosch" also Amazon was good well acted, but still written by a paperback author and still hits all the tropes you'd expect it to, but in a way that I didn't hate. Think of it as Law & Order but done really well.

Might start back up on "Man in a High Castle" soon. Full disclosure, never read it, but I like the author and premise. Didn't totally get sucked in to the first few episodes, so I might blow an Audible credit and see if the book makes the show better.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 19, 2016, 05:20:34 PM
The 100 is not good.
It's terribly written, cliché ridden, badly acted, Dawson-casted, fan-servicing, badly written... And did I mention badly written?

It does get better as time goes on. Many stupidities remain and there is always someone wearing the annoying git hat, but it does get much better than how it began.
Maybe its the cynical old man in me but, man, CW shows are all full of beautiful young people.  It could be test written and acted show on tv but the pretty is just do much for my suspension of disbelief.  Which after about 6 eps, that show still poorly written with mediocre acting but still too pretty to look at.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 19, 2016, 05:23:55 PM
I can deal with pretty for the most part, but the acting and writing better be up to scratch or i will be taken out of it by knowing why you cast that person.
Maybe its because less gets asked of women as actors but with CW in particular, the male actors are mostly atrocious!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on February 19, 2016, 05:28:08 PM
The 100 is not good.
It's terribly written, cliché ridden, badly acted, Dawson-casted, fan-servicing, badly written... And did I mention badly written?

It does get better as time goes on. Many stupidities remain and there is always someone wearing the annoying git hat, but it does get much better than how it began.
Maybe its the cynical old man in me but, man, CW shows are all full of beautiful young people.  It could be test written and acted show on tv but the pretty is just do much for my suspension of disbelief.  Which after about 6 eps, that show still poorly written with mediocre acting but still too pretty to look at.

It doesn't really start getting significantly better until the second season (especially after the death of one particularly horrible character), though there are promising signs around the last third of the first.

That being said, I am rather annoyed with season 3 at this stage.

As for young and beautiful people, practically every TV show is like that these days. And in the case of the 100, the vast majority of annoying pretty teenagers will be replaced by annoying not that beautiful adults. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on February 22, 2016, 09:36:03 AM
Vinyl, I want to like it and it to be good. But it really just sort of makes me glad I don’t remember the 70’s. It seems really horrible. The ways they make the lead exemplify the rock in roll attitude just to me make him into a self-absorbed rapey d-bag. The sexism, racism the mostly horrible music, it feels authentic, but isn’t really likeable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on February 22, 2016, 01:08:47 PM
Lip Sync Battle

Just some silly fun.  It's a reality TV show that is refreshingly non-serious.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on February 23, 2016, 07:51:12 AM
Lip Sync Battle

Just some silly fun.  It's a reality TV show that is refreshingly non-serious.

My wife loves this show.

I find it mildly amusing.....though the crowd going bananas for some hunky actor dressing in drag is getting old.  Like, we've seen someone this 10 epsiodes in a row, why are people going so bonkers like it's new, shocking, or even a big deal?

It is nice to see a show that's not trying to be mean to anyone.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 29, 2016, 02:06:57 PM
Vinyl, I want to like it and it to be good. But it really just sort of makes me glad I don’t remember the 70’s. It seems really horrible. The ways they make the lead exemplify the rock in roll attitude just to me make him into a self-absorbed rapey d-bag. The sexism, racism the mostly horrible music, it feels authentic, but isn’t really likeable.

Is Vinyl a "safe for white people to enjoy" version of Empire?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on February 29, 2016, 03:12:09 PM


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3186130/

Quote
A New York music executive in the 1970s hustles to make a career out of the city's diverse music scene. Creators: Martin Scorsese, Mick Jagger, Terence Winter

I've never seen Empire so can't really be sure.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on February 29, 2016, 03:49:30 PM
Love  7.5/10

It’s a rom/com show for people who may not normally like those. It stars Gillian Jacobs from community and in many parts seems like it might be improvised. It’s fun and has a few moments that are really funny is not really consistently LOL funny. Still it’s enjoyable and has characters that draw you in.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on February 29, 2016, 07:49:29 PM
Love  7.5/10

It’s a rom/com show for people who may not normally like those. It stars Gillian Jacobs from community and in many parts seems like it might be improvised. It’s fun and has a few moments that are really funny is not really consistently LOL funny. Still it’s enjoyable and has characters that draw you in.
I didn't like it, and I got until episode 7 which is rare because usually I either like it enough to watch it all out dislike it enough to quit after two episodes, but this show is different enough that it took me a while to decide.
It had potential, but if tries (and succeeds) to be too real, in an almost endearing way, except that real can get boring, cringy, and sometimes not what you're looking for on TV.

ETA: I didn't like that it was too reminiscent of me, or at least who I was about five years ago, and I didn't appreciate the reminder. And it's not just that - I like my fictional romances fantastical and written in the stars, or at least with an interesting twist. "You're the worst" is a good example because it's really interesting in the context of the characters and who they are. In LOVE it's just two almost normal people, and I found nothing appealing about them as characters or their relationship.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on March 01, 2016, 02:39:41 AM
Vinyl, I want to like it and it to be good. But it really just sort of makes me glad I don’t remember the 70’s. It seems really horrible. The ways they make the lead exemplify the rock in roll attitude just to me make him into a self-absorbed rapey d-bag. The sexism, racism the mostly horrible music, it feels authentic, but isn’t really likeable.

Is Vinyl a "safe for white people to enjoy" version of Empire?
That's a safe assessment.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on March 01, 2016, 08:57:29 AM
So.....

Gotham.

I've resisted.

Mainly because I watched a LOT of "Smallville" because my wife was a fan.

That show started strong, and by the end degenerated into a non stop train of increasingly ridiculous reasons that we haven't seen Superman appear yet.  They turned Clark into an indecisive coward, because that was the only way it made sense that he didn't fully embrace his destiny.

Is that what we're going to get once Gotham rolls into season 4 or 5?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 01, 2016, 09:13:37 AM
I had to quit it after the end of the last season. I forget exactly where but the joker tease they did was too much as I really got into the character and then they got rid of him.
Thats fine but they then gave a teaser that reduces the joker of that universe to being a copycat regardless of who he ends up being. Thats just shit.
They take the characters so far that they are irreconcilable with where you know they are supposed to end up.

Id really love a series focused on teen bruce doing his training though, deceiving people about his identity, solving crimes as a beginner, each season could focus on a different skill he has to master.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on March 01, 2016, 10:39:21 AM

Id really love a series focused on teen bruce doing his training though, deceiving people about his identity, solving crimes as a beginner, each season could focus on a different skill he has to master.

I instantly pictured a show set-up like Dexter, but with Bruce Wayne learning to be a sneaky fighter instead of hiding all the corpses he made.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 01, 2016, 12:23:37 PM
So.....

Gotham.

I've resisted.

Mainly because I watched a LOT of "Smallville" because my wife was a fan.

That show started strong, and by the end degenerated into a non stop train of increasingly ridiculous reasons that we haven't seen Superman appear yet.  They turned Clark into an indecisive coward, because that was the only way it made sense that he didn't fully embrace his destiny.

Is that what we're going to get once Gotham rolls into season 4 or 5?

Yeah the Penguin character really broke out and caught me first season. But I seem to recall there was a bit of a hiatus in the first season and I never got back into it when they returned. Or maybe I got busy with something.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 01, 2016, 12:24:53 PM
Scorpion. I've only been watching the last couple eps because they have Penn Jillette on. But. Ewww. This show looks like it could have real potential if it had better writers. These super geniuses don't really come across as being all that smart.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on March 01, 2016, 12:55:30 PM
Did anyone actually like Eureka?  I really tried with that one.  It had no draw at all.  Lifeless characters, overly whimsical atmosphere, silly episode concepts. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 01, 2016, 01:20:23 PM
Cant bring myself to watch Scorpion, Ive heard the science is very dubious but also the main character is based on a self promoting dickhead who grew up not far from me.
His claims to be a genius are based on an "IQ test" he took in primary school. Where IQ tests dont get applied and certainly didnt when he was in school. No record of said test of course.
Also, he goes with the "poor farmers son, pulled up by his bootstraps and ingenuity"
Well...farmers son yes. But his family is actually pretty wealthy. He DID win an engineering competition once though.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on March 01, 2016, 05:36:45 PM
"The Magicians"
Started off kind of weak but it's gotten better.  I like it better than the book in some ways because the characters are less annoying and much more three dimensional.  The writing is inconsistent and the pacing is still a bit off, but the lead actors are really fantastic. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on March 01, 2016, 08:10:38 PM
Scorpion. I've only been watching the last couple eps because they have Penn Jillette on. But. Ewww. This show looks like it could have real potential if it had better writers. These super geniuses don't really come across as being all that smart.

Penn has described it as a show about geniuses written by people who are not geniuses.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 02, 2016, 09:19:31 AM
Scorpion. I've only been watching the last couple eps because they have Penn Jillette on. But. Ewww. This show looks like it could have real potential if it had better writers. These super geniuses don't really come across as being all that smart.

Penn has described it as a show about geniuses written by people who are not geniuses.

It could be an interesting show if maybe they hired some hardcore science consultants. One thing I really enjoyed about Breaking Bad, at least the first two seasons, was the "better crime through chemistry" angle. Indeed, a lot seem like you had to really, really unfocus your eyes to help see past the leaps they took but it sure did seem believable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on March 03, 2016, 02:55:17 AM
Twin Peaks. It's wierd...like seriously wierd. Can't stop watching it though, it's so bad it's good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Captain Video on March 03, 2016, 04:34:27 AM
Twin Peaks. It's wierd...like seriously wierd. Can't stop watching it though, it's so bad it's good.

It is so fantastically good, one of my top 10 Tv list, where are you in the show? I think the key is  "cant stop watching it" nobody had ever experienced a show like this when it came out, this was long before Sopranos and modern serial television, this show helped pave the way,  hell it created the way. Its also a perfect example of how a network can fuck up a good thing but I wouldn't want to discuss that until you finish, We can discuss it over some hot black coffee and pie.

They are in production of another season to be shown on Showtime, but keep having pre production changes, Lynch can be difficult, I cant wait.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on March 03, 2016, 04:41:13 AM
I actually stumbled on it while watching Psych; apparently the lead character/writer was a bg fan of Twin Peaks, and got the greenlight for a tribute episode.

I'm into the second season. Sometimes the gags really throw me, like Andy's loose plank gag in S201, but they managed to reel me right back in.

Honestly it's starting to remind me a lot of Shakespeare. Intricate subplots and whatnot, but the characters are far more frustratingly complex.

I think there's a definite desire for characters to do the correct thing instead of acting like irrational humans, and sometimes shows (Man in a High Castle and Dexter did this for me) portray the human choices instead of the correct choices for a satisfying story, and it has made me rage quit before.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on March 03, 2016, 08:00:06 AM
It's also based in Washington state, which is a clear stamp of greatness because all good things come from Washington state.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on March 03, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
Twin Peaks. It's wierd...like seriously wierd. Can't stop watching it though, it's so bad it's good.

I watched it in it's original run and liked most of it and re-watched it last year.
The last half of season 2 lost it's way I felt, but it still had it's moments, Agent Denise Bryson for one. Hubba Hubba  ;D  8)

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on March 09, 2016, 06:27:03 PM
Ugh. Damien. I love most of the things on FX, so I came in to Damien with high hopes. These were immediately shattered.

Damien is about the kid from The Omen 30 years after the events in The Omen. So Damien is the anti-christ.

I'll be talking some specifics from the pilot but none of these are spoilers.
The acting is atrocious. The directing is weird and needlessly jerky. The plot itself is frustrating. I'll admit I haven't actually seen The Omen, but I know what it's about. The show's main character is your typical skeptic/atheist in a world where crazy shit happens (crazy shit that all clearly reflects catholic dogma). Seriously, all kinds of crazy shit happens and his reaction is "what I'm supposed to believe there's a god and a satan?" I'd obviously be fine with that reaction, but he doesn't bring up ANY actual explanations for the weird shit, like maybe he's going crazy, or maybe someone is conning him. Then you get the ridiculously cliched

Female character: "X is in a better place" glares at Damien"but you don't believe that, do you?"
Damien: "I don't know what I believe anymore."

Then you have the fact that this story is presented as some sort of mystery (beyond the "mystery" element there's really no driving force behind the story so far) yet we know what the answer to the mystery is.. he's the antichrist. That's it. That's the mystery he's trying to uncover that is slowly revealed to us, even though we all know that from the first 2 mins.

I think what I've learned is that while I love FX, I really dislike their pseudo-horror. I found American Horror Story boring, The Strain laughable (bad acting and terrible writing, much like this show!), and now Damien rounds it out.

Even after all of this I'm still going to watch at least 1 more episode because sometimes pilots just suck, but I don't hold out too much hope.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on March 09, 2016, 11:02:49 PM
I feel "Black Sails" belongs here. Starz. Wannabe Game of Thrones on pirate ships.
Characters stop a lot to logic through their political maneuverings, or tersely exposite their motivations... they tell, whereas GoT shows. Not only is it artificial, but it rarely makes sense. The only character I "get" is Silver, but he's just winging it, hoping to survive another day. That's relatable. I finished S1, ended on a cliffhanger, but I don't feel the need to continue.

Anyone else?
ETA: Ah, I see HarryBlack hit the show already (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43442.msg9355026.html#msg9355026). A lot harder than I did...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on March 09, 2016, 11:06:15 PM
Netflix has an original series called "Shadowhunters" and it's shit on a stick from e02-e09 or so.

It's Vampire:Teh Makserade meets Tweesparkle attempting Buffy (and failing terribly).

And yet.

I gave it the season. I figured the acting had to settle in and the writing too.

The ideas are solid, and when shit starts to get real and the showrunner ties that plot down, the thing starts to work.

As I write, I realize it is that they get past angst and start dealing with actual FUCKn AWFUL SHIT IS GOn DOWN!

So it is definitely not the very best - but it has the potential to be quite excellent. The actors are settling in and the writers too.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on March 10, 2016, 03:38:30 AM
I feel "Black Sails" belongs here. Starz. Wannabe Game of Thrones on pirate ships.
Characters stop a lot to logic through their political maneuverings, or tersely exposite their motivations... they tell, whereas GoT shows. Not only is it artificial, but it rarely makes sense. The only character I "get" is Silver, but he's just winging it, hoping to survive another day. That's relatable. I finished S1, ended on a cliffhanger, but I don't feel the need to continue.

I liked the first two seasons when I marathoned it. this season is pretty dull for me, though.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 10, 2016, 04:28:43 AM
I feel "Black Sails" belongs here. Starz. Wannabe Game of Thrones on pirate ships.
Characters stop a lot to logic through their political maneuverings, or tersely exposite their motivations... they tell, whereas GoT shows. Not only is it artificial, but it rarely makes sense. The only character I "get" is Silver, but he's just winging it, hoping to survive another day. That's relatable. I finished S1, ended on a cliffhanger, but I don't feel the need to continue.

Anyone else?
ETA: Ah, I see HarryBlack hit the show already (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43442.msg9355026.html#msg9355026). A lot harder than I did...
I think your summary is more balanced and accurate than mine. I may have been in a bad mood that day?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on March 11, 2016, 07:52:28 AM
Unfortunately my favorite thing about "Black Sails" is the opening credit sequence.  Everything else is lame as Henning and Harry describe.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on March 11, 2016, 02:04:13 PM
I'll go a hair further and say just the theme song.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on March 13, 2016, 09:30:19 PM
If the magicians considered on it's trajectory, it will make it off this list.  Still has a bit of a ways to go though.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on March 24, 2016, 12:43:16 AM
Unfortunately my favorite thing about "Black Sails" is the opening credit sequence.  Everything else is lame as Henning and Harry describe.

Definitely liked the theme song though, yeah.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 04, 2016, 12:14:31 PM
I'm really giving Primeval a chance, but this show is so full of cliche's and it's just so, so stupid. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 05, 2016, 03:14:07 PM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 05, 2016, 03:21:24 PM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.

What was that stupid show were people went back into the dinosaur era to escape some future disaster. It only lasted a season. People had all these powerful guns but they seemed totally ineffective against nearly any dinosaur that ever attacked them. Making you wonder why they even tried.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on April 05, 2016, 03:23:59 PM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.

What was that stupid show were people went back into the dinosaur era to escape some future disaster. It only lasted a season. People had all these powerful guns but they seemed totally ineffective against nearly any dinosaur that ever attacked them. Making you wonder why they even tried.

I remember that - I remember thinking "16 year-old Mike would be all over this, but 30-whatever year-old Mike can't be stuffed to watch even the pilot".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Drunken Idaho on April 05, 2016, 06:04:09 PM
I feel "Black Sails" belongs here. Starz. Wannabe Game of Thrones on pirate ships.
Characters stop a lot to logic through their political maneuverings, or tersely exposite their motivations... they tell, whereas GoT shows. Not only is it artificial, but it rarely makes sense. The only character I "get" is Silver, but he's just winging it, hoping to survive another day. That's relatable. I finished S1, ended on a cliffhanger, but I don't feel the need to continue.

Anyone else?
ETA: Ah, I see HarryBlack hit the show already (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43442.msg9355026.html#msg9355026). A lot harder than I did...

Extremely accurate review. A+, would read again.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 06, 2016, 09:18:14 AM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.

What was that stupid show were people went back into the dinosaur era to escape some future disaster. It only lasted a season. People had all these powerful guns but they seemed totally ineffective against nearly any dinosaur that ever attacked them. Making you wonder why they even tried.

I think that was Terra Nova.  This is one where mysterious portals are appearing all over the UK and creatures from the past are arriving in them and some team of biology nerds is trying to send them back through the portals.  When I stopped, the teaser for the next episode was for a creature from the future. 

The characters are largely flat and the premise could've held promise, but the whole package was an unfocused mess.  Heavily cliched writing, frequently awkward music, stupidly unrealistic animal behavior, generally poor-quality CG, and totally invented menaces, which, in only about 5 episodes, featured the bee-swarm-like Pterasaurs, giant spiders that apparently "chew their food," clearly invented lifeforms--including a giant parasite that made a guy crazy, someone living by jumping through the time portal things, and countless scenes totally lacking in tension or excitement.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 06, 2016, 10:33:06 AM
This is one where mysterious portals are appearing all over the UK and creatures from the past are arriving in them and some team of biology nerds is trying to send them back through the portals.
...
Heavily cliched writing, frequently awkward music, stupidly unrealistic animal behavior, generally poor-quality CG-

sounds like the only glimpse of an episode of Warehouse 13 I ever had the displeasure of seeing,
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 06, 2016, 01:31:43 PM
I enjoyed Warehouse 13, mostly because I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.  Not great but I was entertained.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on April 07, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.

What was that stupid show were people went back into the dinosaur era to escape some future disaster. It only lasted a season. People had all these powerful guns but they seemed totally ineffective against nearly any dinosaur that ever attacked them. Making you wonder why they even tried.

A while back I made a thread about that totally impervious dinosaur meme.  I am sure that taking down a dinosaur with guns would be difficult but probably not much harder than an elephant or a rino.   I am sure a group of 3 or 4 experienced hunters or soldiers could do it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on April 07, 2016, 11:27:42 AM
I gave up on Primeval at episode 6.  That show is beyond stupid.  Tiny pterasaurs swarmed like bees, picked up a golfer, flew into solid objects just to be terrifying, and were defeated with a small blow torch.  I don't care how cute that girl is, this show is moronic.  Fuck you.

What was that stupid show were people went back into the dinosaur era to escape some future disaster. It only lasted a season. People had all these powerful guns but they seemed totally ineffective against nearly any dinosaur that ever attacked them. Making you wonder why they even tried.

A while back I made a thread about that totally impervious dinosaur meme.  I am sure that taking down a dinosaur with guns would be difficult but probably not much harder than an elephant or a rino.   I am sure a group of 3 or 4 experienced hunters or soldiers could do it.

Yeah, the difference between a hunter and a civilian in that case would be that a civilian would overestimate the damage a headshot would cause (lots of skull, tiny bit of brain) relative to a human target.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 08, 2016, 01:37:00 AM
I enjoyed Warehouse 13, mostly because I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.  Not great but I was entertained.

it was just 10 years too late for me. whereas I did love Sliders despite its sub-par creativity and graphics, just the right age for that stuff.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on April 09, 2016, 12:22:11 AM
I just finished season 1 of the Netflix Shadowhunters program.

It got better enough to keep me involved until the end. I still gave it 2/5 stars. The acting and directing and writing really do improve dramatically. The twists and turns in the plot are stil 1970s Soap Opera quality moves. I don't think I'd watch a second seasonal if there is one.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on April 09, 2016, 05:09:48 AM
I enjoyed Warehouse 13, mostly because I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.  Not great but I was entertained.

it was just 10 years too late for me. whereas I did love Sliders despite its sub-par creativity and graphics, just the right age for that stuff.
I think with Sliders too, there was very little to compare it to so it was much more enjoyable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 11, 2016, 09:28:48 AM
I enjoyed Warehouse 13, mostly because I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.  Not great but I was entertained.

it was just 10 years too late for me. whereas I did love Sliders despite its sub-par creativity and graphics, just the right age for that stuff.
I think with Sliders too, there was very little to compare it to so it was much more enjoyable.

I couldn't even get into Sliders when it was new.  I've considered giving it a chance, but just remember thinking how much I thought it sucked.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on April 11, 2016, 10:16:44 AM
I enjoyed Warehouse 13, mostly because I don't think it was ever meant to be taken seriously.  Not great but I was entertained.

it was just 10 years too late for me. whereas I did love Sliders despite its sub-par creativity and graphics, just the right age for that stuff.
I think with Sliders too, there was very little to compare it to so it was much more enjoyable.

I couldn't even get into Sliders when it was new.  I've considered giving it a chance, but just remember thinking how much I thought it sucked.

Originally I found it fun.  Somewhere along the line they slid into a world where everyone's head was up their ass, and they began to think that Story Arcs and Dark Stories were more important than being fun.  And then I think it began to suck.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on April 11, 2016, 10:22:45 AM
We watched the first two seasons of black sails and didn’t think it was all that bad.  Entertaining enough to have on while we play games on tablets but not something to hold undivided attention. Yes there are some major problems with the show but just like the setting and the world it creates, even if it is a flawed one.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on April 11, 2016, 10:59:44 AM
I just finished season 1 of the Netflix Shadowhunters program.

It got better enough to keep me involved until the end. I still gave it 2/5 stars. The acting and directing and writing really do improve dramatically. The twists and turns in the plot are stil 1970s Soap Opera quality moves. I don't think I'd watch a second seasonal if there is one.

I got about 6-7 episodes in.  I thought I liked it fine, but I've noticed that it's been over a month now and I haven't cared enough to watch any more.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 11, 2016, 02:28:07 PM
We watched the first two seasons of black sails and didn’t think it was all that bad.

neither did I. I was happy to see a third season. but holy fuck, fuck that season, a giant yawn before a finale.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 11, 2016, 02:29:06 PM
I just finished season 1 of the Netflix Shadowhunters program.

I got about 6-7 episodes in.  I thought I liked it fine, but I've noticed that it's been over a month now and I haven't cared enough to watch any more.

that's where I'm at with The Bastard Executioner, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, Galavant, The Man in the High Castle, and probably others I've forgotten.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on April 13, 2016, 06:22:56 PM
Im watching the Street Fighter anime series from 1995.
17 year old Ryu and Ken tour the world looking for fights and possibly boning each other.
The campiness is delicious!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on April 15, 2016, 07:58:15 AM
11.22.63

Guy travels back in time to stop the Kennedy assassination.

For me, this show started with stunningly terrific promise.  The first three or four episodes were appointment television for me.

Then the show slowly petered out like a balloon with the air being gradually let out.

Good production value, good cast, (James Franco was a blank slate everyman which I don't mean at all as an insult.  It's exactly what he should have been.) and a story that should have been 5-6 episodes instead of 8.

The final episode reminded me of the Simpson's episode "The Itchy, Scratchy and Poochie show".  A title card reading: Poochie died on the way to his home planet should have ended the series.



Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 15, 2016, 08:54:07 AM

The final episode reminded me of the Simpson's episode "The Itchy, Scratchy and Poochie show".  A title card reading: Poochie died on the way to his home planet should have ended the series.

Evidently, that is literally how Quantum Leap ended.

On the 11.22.63 show, I just really can't bring myself to care anymore about the Kennedy assassination, but Stephen King is apparently obsessed with it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on April 15, 2016, 09:11:36 AM

The final episode reminded me of the Simpson's episode "The Itchy, Scratchy and Poochie show".  A title card reading: Poochie died on the way to his home planet should have ended the series.

Evidently, that is literally how Quantum Leap ended.

On the 11.22.63 show, I just really can't bring myself to care anymore about the Kennedy assassination, but Stephen King is apparently obsessed with it.

I just like time travel stories, and knew that book was one of King's best reviewed books in decades.  That's why I watched it.  I really don't care about JFK all that much either.

To the stories credit, in King's version, Oswald acted alone.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on April 15, 2016, 10:20:41 AM

The final episode reminded me of the Simpson's episode "The Itchy, Scratchy and Poochie show".  A title card reading: Poochie died on the way to his home planet should have ended the series.

Evidently, that is literally how Quantum Leap ended.

On the 11.22.63 show, I just really can't bring myself to care anymore about the Kennedy assassination, but Stephen King is apparently obsessed with it.

I just like time travel stories, and knew that book was one of King's best reviewed books in decades.  That's why I watched it.  I really don't care about JFK all that much either.

To the stories credit, in King's version, Oswald acted alone.

The book was fun. If I remember correctly in the introduction to the book he discusses the evidence for the different theories regarding the assassination and comes to the conclusion that the most standard "Oswald acted alone" is the only one that hold any weight. He doesn't mince words on the fact that the conspiracy theories are based on nonsense, while trying his best not to alienate them as possible readers. He probably still did, but he gave it a valiant effort. I could be wrong about some of these details, I read the book back when it was first published.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 15, 2016, 10:53:56 AM

The final episode reminded me of the Simpson's episode "The Itchy, Scratchy and Poochie show".  A title card reading: Poochie died on the way to his home planet should have ended the series.

Evidently, that is literally how Quantum Leap ended.

On the 11.22.63 show, I just really can't bring myself to care anymore about the Kennedy assassination, but Stephen King is apparently obsessed with it.

I just like time travel stories, and knew that book was one of King's best reviewed books in decades.  That's why I watched it.  I really don't care about JFK all that much either.

To the stories credit, in King's version, Oswald acted alone.

The book was fun. If I remember correctly in the introduction to the book he discusses the evidence for the different theories regarding the assassination and comes to the conclusion that the most standard "Oswald acted alone" is the only one that hold any weight. He doesn't mince words on the fact that the conspiracy theories are based on nonsense, while trying his best not to alienate them as possible readers. He probably still did, but he gave it a valiant effort. I could be wrong about some of these details, I read the book back when it was first published.

To be honest, I had a concern that this would be another bloated conspiracy theory telling, and outside of the X-Files (where it is part of a larger plot), I really don't have the patience for that crap. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 15, 2016, 12:50:27 PM
Just completed the X-Files reboot. A couple okay eps but man mostly a big pile of shit with ep 6 stinking the most. 

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: EvilNick on April 15, 2016, 04:35:22 PM
Just completed the X-Files reboot. A couple okay eps but man mostly a big pile of shit with ep 6 stinking the most.

Episode 6 was terrible.  The odds were against all 6 episodes being as solid as the pinnacle of the franchise (seasons 2-6) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which would be that these episodes are written well outside of the "groove" that defined the best seasons, and the time that's passed since the series ended.

Overall, I was still happy to have a few more episodes, but while Chris Carter created a great show, he wrote the worst episodes of the new set.  He is better as a producer.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on April 16, 2016, 02:07:45 AM
11.22.63

Guy travels back in time to stop the Kennedy assassination.

It was a huge disappointment after an intriguing start.
The only thing different from the start of Episode 1 and the End of Episode 8 is that Jake is 3 years older.

The huge reset button was always going to be an easy out. I'd have enjoyed it more, if anything Jake changed he had to live with.
I would have liked to have seen the final scene be Jake in the bad future with no way to go back.

The premise was always a stretch. I could never see how JFK not dying would have made America/The World a better place. Obviously it would have been different.
The odds were always good that they could be worse. Which was the direction the show took. Then took back.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on April 16, 2016, 01:21:26 PM
Banshee is 3 episodes in and is more stupid than the last season. It also has less action.
It is less racist though, so thats good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on April 18, 2016, 08:47:50 AM
11.22.63

Guy travels back in time to stop the Kennedy assassination.

It was a huge disappointment after an intriguing start.
The only thing different from the start of Episode 1 and the End of Episode 8 is that Jake is 3 years older.

The huge reset button was always going to be an easy out. I'd have enjoyed it more, if anything Jake changed he had to live with.
I would have liked to have seen the final scene be Jake in the bad future with no way to go back.

The premise was always a stretch. I could never see how JFK not dying would have made America/The World a better place. Obviously it would have been different.
The odds were always good that they could be worse. Which was the direction the show took. Then took back.

Not being willing to commit was the biggest flaw.  As I mentioned, it flew out of the gates with lots of fun, faced paced stuff...then sputtered and died.  My wife and I watched the last 3 episodes out of spite more than anything else.  ("Let's see how they finally drag this thing behind the shed and shoot it in the head...")
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 21, 2016, 08:43:11 AM
5 eps into American Crime Season 1. Not bad for a major network drama. Interesting commentary on how society treats white people's flaws versus the flaws of non-whites. Or the fundamental attribution error as a weekly TV series. It reminds me of how someone once wrote an interesting thing about how conservatives would frame Sarah Palin's family if they were black.

http://bigthink.com/politeia/if-sarah-palin-were-black
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on April 21, 2016, 09:06:13 AM
5 eps into American Crime Season 1. Not bad for a major network drama. Interesting commentary on how society treats white people's flaws versus the flaws of non-whites. Or the fundamental attribution error as a weekly TV series. It reminds me of how someone once wrote an interesting thing about how conservatives would frame Sarah Palin's family if they were black.

http://bigthink.com/politeia/if-sarah-palin-were-black

I really liked American Crime. It might be in part because my mom is kind of sheltered and doesn't understand white privilege, and it was a show I binge watched with her while she was visiting and it was fun having her eyes opened to a lot of things.

I actually liked the second season a lot better. It's an anthology so it's a completely different story, and a-la american horror story the actors are recast in very different roles. It's about a high school and a sex scandal.. not the kind of sex scandal you'd typically think of.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 21, 2016, 10:16:19 AM
I was wondering about the second season. I do like that idea about each season keeping roughly the same actors and recasting them in new roles. I think the actors themselves may love something like that. They don't necessarily get locked into a certain character type and can show their range.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on May 02, 2016, 01:32:40 PM
I watched this weird Australian thing on Netflix called Danger 5.  I enjoyed the way it was made in general, but it was more weird than funny.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 02, 2016, 02:29:32 PM
I watched this weird Australian thing on Netflix called Danger 5.  I enjoyed the way it was made in general, but it was more weird than funny.
I basically agree.  I loved the idea, something was kinda off with the execution.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on May 02, 2016, 08:14:56 PM
I watched this weird Australian thing on Netflix called Danger 5.  I enjoyed the way it was made in general, but it was more weird than funny.
I thought it was funny but I can also only take it in small doses. By the way, they also did Italian Spiderman, which even stranger than Danger Five.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on May 03, 2016, 11:13:38 AM
The thing I liked the most was how 100% they committed to some of the sillier bits.  And then even when I felt like I "got" where they were going, I was still completely surprised a couple of times, especially in S2.

The thing I liked the least was how weird rather than funny some of the bits were.  Weird for the sake of weird.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on May 24, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Sparticus

this is tragically cheaply produced, like I didn't even know was done these days. it's like some student project attempt to mimic 300. the costumes, the lighting, the backdrops, it all seems so tacky.

also, it's weirdly local (made in NZ--I had thought maybe it was just filmed here, but it seems like it's not at all a foreign production merely shot here) (the casual use of 'cunt' must've seemed a bit unusual to US audiences)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on May 24, 2016, 03:57:38 PM
Sparticus

this is tragically cheaply produced, like I didn't even know was done these days. it's like some student project attempt to mimic 300. the costumes, the lighting, the backdrops, it all seems so tacky.

also, it's weirdly local (made in NZ--I had thought maybe it was just filmed here, but it seems like it's not at all a foreign production merely shot here) (the casual use of 'cunt' must've seemed a bit unusual to US audiences)

I liked the first season, but could not get into the second season after the odd actor and story reboot. It seems like they could/should have had a better explanation or narration to explain what happened.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 24, 2016, 04:15:16 PM
Sparticus

this is tragically cheaply produced, like I didn't even know was done these days. it's like some student project attempt to mimic 300. the costumes, the lighting, the backdrops, it all seems so tacky.

also, it's weirdly local (made in NZ--I had thought maybe it was just filmed here, but it seems like it's not at all a foreign production merely shot here) (the casual use of 'cunt' must've seemed a bit unusual to US audiences)
I agree. I found it very tedious.
I struggled through season 2 because I was bored, but season 3 was unwatchable for me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 24, 2016, 05:11:54 PM
I thought the first episode of sparticus was unwatchable, as noted, a cheap 300 rip off.


New Girl, its better than two and half men and the Big Bang Theory.  Sorta like friends but every character is Kramer.   I like it but I'm kinda embarrassed to say so out loud. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 24, 2016, 05:22:19 PM
I thought the first episode of sparticus was unwatchable, as noted, a cheap 300 rip off.


New Girl, its better than two and half men and the Big Bang Theory.  Sorta like friends but every character is Kramer.   I like it but I'm kinda embarrassed to say so out loud.
Episode 1 was a big hump for me to get over. As you say, it was trying REALLY hard. Anyhoo....
I confess  to watching Big Bang Theory every week as a breakfast show. I almost never laugh..
New Girl is actually funny at times but I find the characters and the emotional beats utterly insufferable.
Winston is the only one I can tolerate and I think thats because they barely write for him.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on May 24, 2016, 06:05:15 PM
I thought the first episode of sparticus was unwatchable, as noted, a cheap 300 rip off.


New Girl, its better than two and half men and the Big Bang Theory.  Sorta like friends but every character is Kramer.   I like it but I'm kinda embarrassed to say so out loud.
IMO it doesn't really pick up until around midway through Season 2. I'd characterize it as more of a lighter version of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And there are a few eps in there that are downright hilarious.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on May 24, 2016, 09:53:17 PM
New Girl gets lots of leeway from me for the awesome Prince episode.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Drunken Idaho on May 25, 2016, 01:47:49 AM
Fear the Walking Dead might lose me... and I'll watch just about anything post-apocalyptic. The cool characters are badly outnumbered by annoying characters, and even the cool ones are underdeveloped. About the only thing that would grab my interest at this point would be if all of the current main characters died.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on May 25, 2016, 10:31:07 AM
I thought the first episode of sparticus was unwatchable, as noted, a cheap 300 rip off.


New Girl, its better than two and half men and the Big Bang Theory.  Sorta like friends but every character is Kramer.   I like it but I'm kinda embarrassed to say so out loud.
IMO it doesn't really pick up until around midway through Season 2. I'd characterize it as more of a lighter version of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And there are a few eps in there that are downright hilarious.

Big Bang Theory used to be a show full of distinct unique characters, but much like most other sitcoms the show eventually makes everyone the same character.  I.E. eventually everyone on Seinfeld became Kramer.

Once Sheldon is a caring and relatable person to others and once Leonard has no problem bagging the hottie next door, why would we watch?

It's a lot like the NBC version of The Office.  Eventually Michael Scott became a kind, caring person who was respected and loved in the workplace.  Why the fuck would anyone watch that?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 25, 2016, 10:59:52 AM
Sheldon eventually entered into a sexual relationship, which I thought was unfortunate. He does very often act like the mouth piece of the MRA movement and I cant quite figure out if thats the joke or if the writers really feel that way...
I find the DC comics product placement a bit jarring. Like does their comic shop not sell marvel? Maybe thats why Stuart is always struggling?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on May 25, 2016, 11:25:43 AM
Long running TV series eventually have to abandon the well drawn archetypes each character starts out as. For example, the Office UK  was 2 or 3 seasons and then done for. That's it. It's a wrap. The NBC version went on for several years. Actors after a couple seasons need to expand their range if you want them to stay put in a successful series. So the archetypes start to crumble. The "mean guy" is shown to be nice, for example.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on May 25, 2016, 11:58:18 AM
Long running TV series eventually have to abandon the well drawn archetypes each character starts out as. For example, the Office UK  was 2 or 3 seasons and then done for. That's it. It's a wrap. The NBC version went on for several years. Actors after a couple seasons need to expand their range if you want them to stay put in a successful series. So the archetypes start to crumble. The "mean guy" is shown to be nice, for example.

I suppose I can understand that from the actors point of view. I'm not sure I can understand that from the audience point of view. 

If Oscar and Felix were both considerate of each others feelings and took action after carefully considering the impact it would have on each other "The Odd Couple" suddenly sucks.

Wait...that's a bad example, because I forgot there is a NEW Odd Couple, and it does sorta suck....
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on May 25, 2016, 03:04:17 PM
Long running TV series eventually have to abandon the well drawn archetypes each character starts out as. For example, the Office UK  was 2 or 3 seasons and then done for. That's it. It's a wrap. The NBC version went on for several years. Actors after a couple seasons need to expand their range if you want them to stay put in a successful series. So the archetypes start to crumble. The "mean guy" is shown to be nice, for example.
Yeah, the flip side of that is that characters in "britcoms" rarely move beyond the stereotype they're placed in at the beginning of the show. A show like Parks and Recreation, for example, started with a goofy set of characters but moved well beyond that. That show didn't really hit its stride until midway through the second season in my book; had it been an English sitcom, it would have gone away long before the writers were able to explore the characters and make it the awesomeness that it became later on. This is actually a recurring thing for US shows, actually; even The Office, as maligned as it is for having been on too long (and there are a couple seasons at the end that I still haven't bothered to watch) was kind of meh during that first half-season (if memory serves, half the episodes were pulled from the British version with very minor changes made to them). The New Girl is a show that's still being made that I think fits that bill, too. 30 Rock was great from the beginning but Season 3 on is a very different show that is funny in very different ways in my book.

Otherwise, I never really got why people get so mad that a given American show lasts a while, or that American shows generally "last too long". I mean, back in the old days when there were just the 3 major networks I can understand the animus against M*A*S*H lasting forever because it probably kept better programming from getting on the air (though IMO LCD programming was a much bigger issue with series from that era), but nowadays there's just a lot of TV out there in a lot of slots and if something's no good you can just not watch it. And if something was once good and now it's not, you can stop. So you don't get that nice ending. Well... sitcoms in particular very rarely got a good ending, and if anything we're seeing more of that kind of thing than we did before. Also, there's nothing that says you can't stop watching a show and then tune in/buy/otherwise procure the last few episodes if you really want to catch that ending. I mean, wouldn't you rather have too much of a good thing than too little?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 25, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
There is a nice charm to the idea that a story you enjoyed exists in its best possible form though. Seeing characters you liked or cared about become cheap imitations of themselves really sucks and its not like theres a clear moment when it becomes bad ( My favourite bit in Arrested Development is where Winkler runs off and jumps over a toy shark actually).
With Sheldon, I didnt give a shit about the character, but I know that some asexual folks had hoped he might be a good way for the public to learn about them. But no, the message remains "You need to be not broken"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 25, 2016, 04:14:25 PM
IMHO, the both the British 6 episode season and the US 20+ episode seasons have their advantages.  As Johny says, 2 to 4 series of six episodes that seem to be typical in British TV doesn't give much time for a show to grow.  Long running US series can either produce great character development or the opposite, all the characters become caricatures of themselves because everyone involved has become bored and lazy. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on May 25, 2016, 09:21:40 PM
Yeah, I like British tv for what it is, but what it is is something wholly different from its American counterpart. Sometimes I enjoy the wit Britcoms need to manufacture with the small number of episodes they make, sometimes I want to see where a writer goes with an idea over the course of 40 or so episodes. I do feel like it's telling that at least for me one of my favorite British tv shows (#2 to The Office in my book) is Blackadder, a series that did get more than the normal 2 or 3 seasons (and which also didn't in my opinion hit its stride until the 3rd season, where House played King George and Mr. Bean was his butler).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 25, 2016, 09:46:15 PM
A britcom with Atkinson that I might recommend is The Thin Blue Line about a sleepy police station reminiscent of the one from Hot Fuzz. I havent seen it since the 90s but my memories are good!
Atkinson really disappears into the roles he takes on imo.
Also worth looking at is Not The 9o'clock News. Kind of a short lived saturday night live on the bbc.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on May 25, 2016, 11:31:02 PM
I enjoyed Thin Blue Line. In fact, I think I liked everything Rowan Atkinson did up to Mr. Bean.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 26, 2016, 06:13:11 AM
I saw Mr Bean first, at the age of 8 or 9, so to me that was great! I read an interview with Atkinson to the effect that he wanted a character that could be enjoyed by the very old and very young and regardless of language.
I think he hit the mark to be honest, even though I wouldnt go back and watch it. Maybe the best in flight comedy show ever?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on May 26, 2016, 08:09:47 AM
I saw Mr Bean first, at the age of 8 or 9, so to me that was great! I read an interview with Atkinson to the effect that he wanted a character that could be enjoyed by the very old and very young and regardless of language.
I think he hit the mark to be honest, even though I wouldnt go back and watch it. Maybe the best in flight comedy show ever?

I'm not a huge Mr. Bean fan, but I would certainly watch Mr. Bean on an airplane before I would choose to watch anything else I've seen in-flight during the last 5 years or so....

Though Blackadder is really Atkinson's masterpiece.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on May 26, 2016, 09:25:07 AM
Going from Blackadder to Mr. Bean is like going from DisneyWorld to a rusty playground.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on May 26, 2016, 11:31:45 AM
Going from Blackadder to Mr. Bean is like going from DisneyWorld to a rusty playground.

There are a tiny handful of television scenes that have made me cry. 

This is one of them:

(http://v024o.popscreen.com/dkgzLUd0N21neU0x_o_good-luck-everybody---blackadder---bbc.jpg)

"Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here? ...Good luck, everyone."
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 26, 2016, 12:03:46 PM
Decades ago I had a conversation with a bunch of continental Europeans.  Scandinavian, french, german, swiss, they all agreed that Mr.  Been was the only English comedy that made any sense.   I've pretty much dismissed the whole continent as an intellectual wasteland ever since. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on May 26, 2016, 02:26:26 PM
Going from Blackadder to Mr. Bean is like going from DisneyWorld to a rusty playground.

There are a tiny handful of television scenes that have made me cry. 

This is one of them:

(http://v024o.popscreen.com/dkgzLUd0N21neU0x_o_good-luck-everybody---blackadder---bbc.jpg)

"Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here? ...Good luck, everyone."

Agreed. The final scene of them going over the top was very sad. You really do what it took to follow your fellow man over the top knowing 90% of you weren't coming back. I've met a few people that I could imagine "if I were back in WWI and he was my commander, I'd follow him over the top".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 26, 2016, 02:51:58 PM
I think there were very few back then too. I doubt anyone wanted to go over the top, but fear of shame and being immediately shot by your own side can be powerful I guess.
That and maybe a belief in an afterlife.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on May 29, 2016, 04:44:33 AM
getting pretty sick of the cheap 'comedic character' foibles of Richard.


oh, and their 'confidential' information on a hard drive they just casually carry around in a bag that might be lost or stolen isn't encrypted?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on May 29, 2016, 07:44:41 AM
getting pretty sick of the cheap 'comedic character' foibles of Richard.


oh, and their 'confidential' information on a hard drive they just casually carry around in a bag that might be lost or stolen isn't encrypted?

Why are you discussing specific episodes and posting spoilers (they aren't spoilers to me.. I'm caught up.. But to some they would be) in a general TV thread rather than starting one for the show?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on May 29, 2016, 07:56:45 AM
getting pretty sick of the cheap 'comedic character' foibles of Richard.


oh, and their 'confidential' information on a hard drive they just casually carry around in a bag that might be lost or stolen isn't encrypted?

Why are you discussing specific episodes and posting spoilers (they aren't spoilers to me.. I'm caught up.. But to some they would be) in a general TV thread rather than starting one for the show?

it's not a spoiler any more than saying Jared found a rat in the garage is. it's true, but utterly inconsequential. 'dinosaurs chase people in Jurassic Park' is more of a spoiler.

you wouldn't have quoted it without spoilering it if you legitimately thought otherwise, since that's just concreting the perceived transgression in place for other.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on May 30, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
Scorpion...

Paint by numbers, cliche "genius" people, complete with the token woman and token love triangle. It just seems lazy.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Drunken Idaho on June 01, 2016, 09:50:42 PM
Fear the Walking Dead is just awful. It's a show about some people that take turns dramatically talking to each other, while in the background there are some zombies sometimes. I quit.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Spaceship101 on June 02, 2016, 07:37:32 AM
Two and a half men lost my interest when charlie Sheen left. Too bad because I loved it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 02, 2016, 08:08:18 AM
Two and a half men lost my interest when charlie Sheen left. Too bad because I loved it.
I found it to be a tolerable distraction until that point. Then it did become intollerable.
My pet peeve with shows that have characters who get laid a lot is that they tend to be very mononormative. I find that very boring and hard to engage with (obviously Im a tiny minority). Most of Chuck Lorres humour output seems to be "This person hasnt settled down with a single life partner, can you believe it?!"
Guess he knows his audience?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 02, 2016, 10:12:22 AM
Funny, two and a half men has long been my go to shit sitcom that somehow lasted 10 years. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on June 02, 2016, 12:11:20 PM
A britcom with Atkinson that I might recommend is The Thin Blue Line about a sleepy police station reminiscent of the one from Hot Fuzz. I havent seen it since the 90s but my memories are good!
Atkinson really disappears into the roles he takes on imo.
Also worth looking at is Not The 9o'clock News. Kind of a short lived saturday night live on the bbc.

Ha the only thing I remember about that show is when Mr Bean was asked for some money and turned his trouser pockets inside out to demonstrate that they were empty, and another character (a female love interest maybe?) said "Oh no, don't do your elephant impression again." while his pockets were hanging out (ie. elephant ears - in case I'm not describing the scene well enough, he'd have to pull out his wiener to be the elephant's trunk).
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 02, 2016, 12:34:48 PM
Nope! Remember it well!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on June 06, 2016, 08:23:34 AM
Funny, two and a half men has long been my go to shit sitcom that somehow lasted 10 years.

I can't figure this one out any more than I can "Full House".

I know several people who watch "Two and A Half Men", I can't find a single person who will claim it's a good show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on June 06, 2016, 08:39:32 AM
Why on earth would people watch it if they don't think it's a good show?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on June 06, 2016, 08:42:37 AM
I accidently mention AMC's Humans on the other thread for best shows.  It certainly doesn't belong there, but I am five episodes in and it's good enough to scratch my sci fi itch.

Honorable mention would belong to Alphas, which has 2 seasons that average out to a B. The first season was mediocre while the second season was fantastic.  It's one of the bigger disappointments for me in terms of shows not getting renewed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on June 06, 2016, 08:51:06 AM
Why on earth would people watch it if they don't think it's a good show?

I caught a Green Beret buddy of mine singing enthusiastically to Katy Perry in his car.

He was reluctant to admit he liked Katy Perry.

I'm betting the people I know who watch "Two and A Half Men" think it's a good show.  I'm also betting that they know that many people would judge their tastes harshly if it were known that they thought "Two and A Half Men" was a good show.

Personally I could care less.  Sing "Firework" all you want, bro.  You do you.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 06, 2016, 08:53:07 AM
Why on earth would people watch it if they don't think it's a good show?
Because a bad show can occasionally be an entertaining show. Depending on how much it annoys you vs entertains.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 06, 2016, 09:17:00 AM
Btw, Preacher is on a sharp downhill trajectory.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on June 06, 2016, 10:41:10 AM
Why on earth would people watch it if they don't think it's a good show?

I sometimes hate watch "broke girls" and "big bang theory" the same way I hate watch bad movies.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on June 06, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
Why on earth would people watch it if they don't think it's a good show?

I sometimes hate watch "broke girls" and "big bang theory" the same way I hate watch bad movies.

My wife and I avidly watched the first couple seasons of both of those shows.  I still occasionally tune into "Big Bang" so that I can get exasperated, roll my eyes, and change the channel to something good after 15 minutes or so...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on June 06, 2016, 11:29:14 AM
All three of those shows had the same formula, extremely talented cast manages to squeeze laughs out of hackneyed crap.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Wintermint on June 06, 2016, 12:19:19 PM
Hope it hasn't been listed before but we have Billions here. I watched the whole box set of the first series in a little over a week and wished there were a dozen more to follow. Highly recommended. I am a bit of a box set junkie. I watched the West Wong through twice and love Mad Men.

A new series of Billions is being made I believe.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on June 06, 2016, 01:02:39 PM
Hope it hasn't been listed before but we have Billions here. I watched the whole box set of the first series in a little over a week and wished there were a dozen more to follow. Highly recommended. I am a bit of a box set junkie. I watched the West Wong through twice and love Mad Men.

A new series of Billions is being made I believe.

Just so you know this is the thread for the "Not the Very Best TV Shows". There's another thread (http://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43443.570.html) for what people consider to be the very best.

I would have agreed that Billions belongs in the "Not Very Best". I got through 3 episodes and found it to be a chore. Not a very interesting story, not invested in any of the characters, didn't care for the writing. Great actors, but not used to their potential.

I recently watched The Big Short. There's a fun movie about billionaires being corrupt sleaze bags.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Wintermint on June 06, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Oops - though I personally loved Billions.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on June 06, 2016, 03:40:58 PM
I watched the West Wong

Also - I know a few people who would enjoy watching the West Wong.  :-)   Yes, I am making a penis joke out of a typo.   >:D 

Welcome to the forums!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on June 06, 2016, 09:09:42 PM
I think there's a difference between a show or a movie that is "so bad that it's good", and a show or movie that is simply "bad". The former can be entertaining, the latter pretty much by definition is not.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 07, 2016, 05:59:09 AM
I think there's a difference between a show or a movie that is "so bad that it's good", and a show or movie that is simply "bad". The former can be entertaining, the latter pretty much by definition is not.
Not at all. Just because a thing is bad, doesnt meant there is no good in it.
I put on Big Bang Theory if theres nothing else on while I have my breakfast. Its unengaging background noise and once in a while they say something funny. Im not enjoying how bad it is, I recognise how bad it is, its just a time killer for 20min if Im stuck doing something that doesnt require much thought but does require both hands.
Sure I could do other stuff, but thats why I watch that show and why I used to watch two and a half men until it got distractingly bad.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on June 07, 2016, 08:18:49 AM
I think there's a difference between a show or a movie that is "so bad that it's good", and a show or movie that is simply "bad". The former can be entertaining, the latter pretty much by definition is not.
Not at all. Just because a thing is bad, doesnt meant there is no good in it.
I put on Big Bang Theory if theres nothing else on while I have my breakfast. Its unengaging background noise and once in a while they say something funny. Im not enjoying how bad it is, I recognise how bad it is, its just a time killer for 20min if Im stuck doing something that doesnt require much thought but does require both hands.
Sure I could do other stuff, but thats why I watch that show and why I used to watch two and a half men until it got distractingly bad.

Okay, but to me that's not "watching" it. You're not "watching" the show - you're just putting it on as background.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 07, 2016, 08:40:54 AM
I think there's a difference between a show or a movie that is "so bad that it's good", and a show or movie that is simply "bad". The former can be entertaining, the latter pretty much by definition is not.
Not at all. Just because a thing is bad, doesnt meant there is no good in it.
I put on Big Bang Theory if theres nothing else on while I have my breakfast. Its unengaging background noise and once in a while they say something funny. Im not enjoying how bad it is, I recognise how bad it is, its just a time killer for 20min if Im stuck doing something that doesnt require much thought but does require both hands.
Sure I could do other stuff, but thats why I watch that show and why I used to watch two and a half men until it got distractingly bad.

Okay, but to me that's not "watching" it. You're not "watching" the show - you're just putting it on as background.
Why are you trying to define away the thing you claimed not to understand?
Sometimes I do watch it. If Im on a plane or just having my morning coffee or whatever. I can sit there and passively look at the screen and think "This is bad" but perhaps one line will make me chuckle and chuckling once in 20minutes isnt all that bad in a dull day.
It doesnt make the jokes less obvious or the characters more fleshed out or the plots less contrived. I can say that I think its bad and still watch it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on June 07, 2016, 08:54:27 AM
I think there's a difference between a show or a movie that is "so bad that it's good", and a show or movie that is simply "bad". The former can be entertaining, the latter pretty much by definition is not.
Not at all. Just because a thing is bad, doesnt meant there is no good in it.
I put on Big Bang Theory if theres nothing else on while I have my breakfast. Its unengaging background noise and once in a while they say something funny. Im not enjoying how bad it is, I recognise how bad it is, its just a time killer for 20min if Im stuck doing something that doesnt require much thought but does require both hands.
Sure I could do other stuff, but thats why I watch that show and why I used to watch two and a half men until it got distractingly bad.

Okay, but to me that's not "watching" it. You're not "watching" the show - you're just putting it on as background.
Why are you trying to define away the thing you claimed not to understand?
Sometimes I do watch it. If Im on a plane or just having my morning coffee or whatever. I can sit there and passively look at the screen and think "This is bad" but perhaps one line will make me chuckle and chuckling once in 20minutes isnt all that bad in a dull day.
It doesnt make the jokes less obvious or the characters more fleshed out or the plots less contrived. I can say that I think its bad and still watch it.

I didn't claim to not understand it, I asked why people do it (though to be fair I can understand why you interpret what I said in that way). You've told me that you do it, but not really why you do it, except that it "isn't all that bad". My overall impression therefore is that at the times that you do watch it, it's simply a better alternative to whatever else you might have been doing at that time. Going further, I therefore conclude that it isn't all that bad really, since you do find it entertaining at least some of the time.

Man, I just spent far more brainpower on that than I ever intended.  :-\
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 07, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
Right. But as the person doing the thing, Im telling you that your conclusion is wrong.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on June 07, 2016, 09:10:39 AM
I love One Punch Man.  It's A parody of anime like Dragon Ball Z, but comes from a place of love. There's also a deeper level to the show that hits on themes of economics and social welfare.

However, I can't put it on the very best list because the audience for the show is pretty narrow. If you loved Dragon Ball Z but grew out of it, definitely check out One Punch Man.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 07, 2016, 09:14:52 AM
I love One Punch Man.  It's A parody of anime like Dragon Ball Z, but comes from a place of love. There's also a deeper level to the show that hits on themes of economics and social welfare.

However, I can't put it on the very best list because the audience for the show is pretty narrow. If you loved Dragon Ball Z but grew out of it, definitely check out One Punch Man.
Its been on my radar for a while, whats it actually about?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on June 07, 2016, 10:49:21 AM
I love One Punch Man.  It's A parody of anime like Dragon Ball Z, but comes from a place of love. There's also a deeper level to the show that hits on themes of economics and social welfare.

However, I can't put it on the very best list because the audience for the show is pretty narrow. If you loved Dragon Ball Z but grew out of it, definitely check out One Punch Man.
Its been on my radar for a while, whats it actually about?
A man has trained so hard that he can beat all the bad guys with a single punch so he doesn't really know what to do with himself anymore.  Personally I think it's a metaphor for college grads who finish their degree and then don't know how to proceed with life.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 07, 2016, 12:18:46 PM
I watched the West Wong

Also - I know a few people who would enjoy watching the West Wong.  :-)   Yes, I am making a penis joke out of a typo.   >:D 

innit a southern accent that would say it as 'wang'? (that 'a larve thayam chackin wangs' (I<3chickenwings) accent)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on June 07, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
Right. But as the person doing the thing, Im telling you that your conclusion is wrong.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 11, 2016, 11:35:19 AM
Btw, Preacher is on a sharp downhill trajectory.

mmm.
expecting someone to drive after your break their nose on the steering wheel reminds me of the 'tropes I hate' thread. it's not a trope, it's just dumb...your eyes would be watering like fuck.

oh god, and now
Spoiler
the chainsaw that doesn't stop spinning...
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 11, 2016, 11:55:47 AM
Btw, Preacher is on a sharp downhill trajectory.

mmm.
expecting someone to drive after your break their nose on the steering wheel reminds me of the 'tropes I hate' thread. it's not a trope, it's just dumb...your eyes would be watering like fuck.
Pop quiz hotshot. You are an immortal,nigh on unkillable party animal with no reason to give  a shit about religion but a weakness to sunlight and find yourself broke in a small town.
Do you:
A- Use your superpowers to run somewhere other than the arsehole of texas. Maybe killing one of the MANY arseholes within said arsehole for petrol money.
B-Hang around with your new friend at night. Drinking whiskey and maybe doing some odd jobs /stealing to get by.
C- Take a job at the local church. Go to every service (presumably under a tarp?) And take a job as the church handyman for some unspecified reason. Also hang out at every church function because...fuck it?

Bonus question- You arent religious bht your mate is a preacher. You want to talk to him. Do you:
A- Wait til he gets off work.
Or B- Pose as a xtian, get baptised and whisper your nom emergency message in his ear.
Then later kidnap him thinking that will convince him?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on June 11, 2016, 04:03:07 PM
Feed the Beast

Awful.

It's a new drama on AMC starring David Schwimmer about two guys who want to start a restaurant. It's got drugs, mob bosses, alcoholism, and dead family members. Could be an interesting show, but it isn't.

David Schwimmer plays a super whiny alcoholic sommelier, and his buddy plays an incredible drug addicted chef (I say incredible only because that's what the show wants you to believe). The friend is the most annoying kind of character. He's the coolest guy ever, everyone things he's amazing, he can fuck any girl he wants, he's the absolute best at what he does and can sweet talk his way out of everything... but he owes the mob money. I just really don't enjoy the type of character who is just flawless and the coolest, especially when other than through telling you that directly they aren't really selling you on that fact through the acting or writing.

Anyway. I watched the pilot, I won't be watching any more.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 12, 2016, 08:53:01 PM
C- Take a job at the local church. Go to every service (presumably under a tarp?) And take a job as the church handyman for some unspecified reason. Also hang out at every church function because...fuck it?

is that ep 3?
I cringed when I heard the synopsis that "the three embark on a journey to literally find God". like, just, right away, mysterious evil guy is just a loveable vampire soon to be BFF, kinda disappointing
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 17, 2016, 03:31:38 PM
C- Take a job at the local church. Go to every service (presumably under a tarp?) And take a job as the church handyman for some unspecified reason. Also hang out at every church function because...fuck it?

is that ep 3?
I cringed when I heard the synopsis that "the three embark on a journey to literally find God". like, just, right away, mysterious evil guy is just a loveable vampire soon to be BFF, kinda disappointing
Well...in fairness, in the comic, they want to find god so Jesse can kick his ass for the mess he made of the world.
And the vampire character was really well written and went fucking DARK. Theres a reveal about him the show probably wont do that made me feel like i had been betrayed by my own best friend.


Anyway- Voltron Legendary Defender from netflix.
This show is fucking gooood!!!
Really authentic looking anime art style, really great dialogue, well formed characters, a very interesting and slightly mysterious plot.
Giant robots punching giant monsters does not have to be moronic and lazy!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on June 17, 2016, 08:03:50 PM

Anyway- Voltron Legendary Defender from netflix.
This show is fucking gooood!!!
Really authentic looking anime art style, really great dialogue, well formed characters, a very interesting and slightly mysterious plot.
Giant robots punching giant monsters does not have to be moronic and lazy!

Just feel like I need to point this out.. Did you mean to post this in the "Not the Very Best" thread?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 18, 2016, 06:24:50 AM

Anyway- Voltron Legendary Defender from netflix.
This show is fucking gooood!!!
Really authentic looking anime art style, really great dialogue, well formed characters, a very interesting and slightly mysterious plot.
Giant robots punching giant monsters does not have to be moronic and lazy!

Just feel like I need to point this out.. Did you mean to post this in the "Not the Very Best" thread?
I mean...would I call it the VERY best? I thought thats why we had this thread....
Language is confusing!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 19, 2016, 03:23:03 AM
been watching Baskets.

I guess it's somewhere between Curb and Maron, dramady/"black comedy"

for some reason torrents dry up for the final few episodes though :(
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on June 19, 2016, 04:09:35 AM
Wynonna Earp is not good.
It's cheesy and campy, but not audacious enough to pretend it's on purpose (it tries to, though).
Still, I'll be watching - because I have no standards.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 20, 2016, 01:38:25 PM
I feel like Preacher is designed for people who consider themselves "edgey" christians.
The main character looks like eraserhead.
The whole thing is really awful.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on June 20, 2016, 08:32:33 PM
I feel like Preacher is designed for people who consider themselves "edgey" christians.
The main character looks like eraserhead.
The whole thing is really awful.

I'm loving it. It is "different". I even bought the first few Volumes of the Graphic novel to read after the season ends.

Has any one watched "Hunters". It sounded good when I read the premise. Aliens living among us being hunted by a secret US agency.
It is terrible. I didn't even know it was made in Australia until I noticed all the outside locations looked like country Victoria and that half the cast were Aussies with terrible US accents.
Even the agent playing an Aussie has a fake (stupid) accent.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 20, 2016, 08:50:30 PM
I feel like Preacher is designed for people who consider themselves "edgey" christians.
The main character looks like eraserhead.
The whole thing is really awful.

I have to agree about the rapid decline.
I was intrigued at first, but now it's feeling a bit all over the place.

plus the angel characters just remind me of the show Utopia, which was a great show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 23, 2016, 05:23:13 PM
Dr Who, Season 8 truly silly, best seen as a kids show.  Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy it but the moon is a giant egg?

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ambious on June 23, 2016, 06:57:30 PM
Dr Who, Season 8 truly silly, best seen as a kids show.  Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy it but the moon is a giant egg?
Yeah, that was pretty much the last straw for me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on June 23, 2016, 10:17:18 PM
OMFG.  Sid and Marty Kroft are back, and they are so fucking hacky they are not even coming up with new ideas.  So far they have renewed Electra Woman and Sigmund And the Sea Monsters.  They are looking at reviving The Bugaloos, Land of the Lost, and God help us all, fucking Wonderbug.  One of the worst trouble I got in as a kid was when I threw a pillow at the TV in dusgust at how shitty Wonderbug was.  I was ables to lessen my sentence by saying "but did you see how bad that was?"

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/21/sid-marty-krofft-sigmund-sea-monsters-reboot

I will admit Electra Woman (and Debbie Harry) awokened something in my youthful PANTS!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 30, 2016, 08:28:47 AM
Powers on playstation network is ok.
Its a police procedural about a division of regular cops who investigate crimes by and against people with super powers. One of the main characters (played by Sharlto Copley) is a detective who had powers but lost them.
The aesthetics of the show are a little off. The costumes look weirdly last minute and nobody actually looks like a superhero. I think thats kind of the point? It works when you think about it, but if you dont, it makes the whole thing seem a bit low budget.
Im a huge fan of the comic its based on and a couple of things that bug me is that the biggest and coolest reveal of the comics gets subtley written out in the first episode. Theres basically no way it can happen now unless Walker is flat out lying and that sucks.
Second, Deena Pilgrim seems well cast, but the tv version doesnt seem to have the same level of aggression and "dont give a fuckness" as the comic version.
The pilot is slow and a bit too long, but episode two has me very intrigued.
Episode two does a quick recap so I say maybe start there and go back if you like it?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 02, 2016, 05:18:44 PM
Killjoys is back!
Its a higher budget but not as well written Firefly/Cowboybeebop type show.
Style over substance but fun enough.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on July 02, 2016, 09:46:19 PM
Killjoys is back!
Its a higher budget but not as well written Firefly/Cowboybeebop type show.
Style over substance but fun enough.

Also Dark Matter is back. That is also a Firefly clone. It didn't start off as good as Killjoys, but it improved throughout the first season to be very enjoyable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on July 05, 2016, 01:05:46 AM
I keep getting Fireflyflashes from it as we start watching. I don't think that's terrible, though it's a bit heavy handed in the few eps I've seen so far. "Inspired by" is how I thing of it. Until they start pole vaulting with hammerheads at least. :)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on July 07, 2016, 05:28:04 PM
Shanarra from MTV on Netflix.  Meh, it probably sucks but I'm only half paying attention to it at most and its good enough for that, its much better than the Legend of the Seeker from a few years ago. The cast is way to clean and pretty for a midevil world.  The acting is mediocre but either its got a much higher budge than most tv fantasy or FX have just gotten super cheap.  It looks pretty good for tv fantasy.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on July 08, 2016, 10:35:23 AM
Shanarra from MTV on Netflix.  Meh, it probably sucks but I'm only half paying attention to it at most and its good enough for that, its much better than the Legend of the Seeker from a few years ago. The cast is way to clean and pretty for a midevil world.  The acting is mediocre but either its got a much higher budge than most tv fantasy or FX have just gotten super cheap.  It looks pretty good for tv fantasy.

Agreed - it's not "good" but I really liked it, and look forward to more.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 16, 2016, 06:58:14 PM
Not the best, but pretty good if you like anime-
Berserk.
It ran for a full season in 1997 and was a pretty amazing story, very close to the comic. It has finally got a new series with awesome CG animation that blends classic manga pencil strokes with 3D movement.
The new series picks up after the insane cliff hanger that was the series finale in '97.
Its set in a fictionalised renaissance italy type country and follows a young mercenary making his name and joining a group of mercs led by the only guy who can beat him in a fight.
Theres a will they/wont they aspect to the two main characters that comes to a pretty amazing conclussion. The new series has Guts (the main character) as a slightly older man having come back and being a wanted man.
There are supernatural elements that were used very sparingly in the original that are coming more to a head in this season.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 23, 2016, 10:21:28 PM
Again, not a great show, but Wayward Pines is still interesting.
There have been two really interesting things done with guns in this season that certainly show what side of the debate the writers are on. But I have never seen either of those two things done before and its not often I can say that.
The problems with the second season do outweigh the good points though unfortunately.
Sorry, its a very hard show to discuss without spoilers.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on July 23, 2016, 11:14:23 PM
Not a great show but Wayward Pines is watchable. Season 2 is not as good as the first season though.
Spoiler
The advanced rate of human devolution is a bit over the top. They could have fixed that problem easily by going much further ahead in time. But what I don't understand, is how taking a group of humans, who must have the same genetic problems, forward in time fixes the human species. Surely this group's descendants will all devolve as well.
[close]

The latest episode of wayward Pines confirms what we have all known about the leader Jason.  ;)

Spoiler
That he is a mother fucker  ;D >:D
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 01, 2016, 05:17:46 PM
Preacher finale was atrocious.
I couldnt figure out why its so hard to find critique of it online, but I guess its one of those shows that people either love so much they wont say a bad word or hate so much they dont watch it.
Not this asshole though. I hate watched the entire fucking thing, like some sort of compulsive masochist.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on August 01, 2016, 06:11:35 PM
Preacher finale was atrocious.
I couldnt figure out why its so hard to find critique of it online, but I guess its one of those shows that people either love so much they wont say a bad word or hate so much they dont watch it.
Not this asshole though. I hate watched the entire fucking thing, like some sort of compulsive masochist.

I gave up on it after they killed off my Buddy from college.  Well, not entirely true.  I gave it 2 more episodes, but it really didn't seem to be going anywhere. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 01, 2016, 07:20:29 PM
Preacher finale was atrocious.
I couldnt figure out why its so hard to find critique of it online, but I guess its one of those shows that people either love so much they wont say a bad word or hate so much they dont watch it.
Not this asshole though. I hate watched the entire fucking thing, like some sort of compulsive masochist.

I gave up on it after they killed off my Buddy from college.  Well, not entirely true.  I gave it 2 more episodes, but it really didn't seem to be going anywhere.
The last 5minutes takes up where the comic started, except huge important plot points have been changed.
That in itself is ok, but what they replaced them with is REALLY shoddy.
None of the characters are people you can really root for but it feels like they really tried to make them sympathetic.
Like
Spoiler
we learn Jesse and Tulip want a guy dead because they were being pricks during a bank robbery and demeaning their partner when he told them to act professional. The partner walked out on the robbery and pulled the alarm. In the ensuing struggle Tulip lost her baby. The show never considers that they share some blame for being such prick and also for robbing a bank while pregnant (they also murdered a security guard to escape) we are supposed to root for them to kill their former partner though.
[close]
Theres a scene with God in the finale and it really has the feeling of a College Humour video but with no punchline.
Just terrible.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on August 01, 2016, 07:23:59 PM
Saw episodes of two broke girls and mike and molly recently.  Those shows suck and broke girls is also slightly racist.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 01, 2016, 08:12:09 PM
/b]
Saw episodes of two broke girls and mike and molly recently.  Those shows suck and broke girls is also slightly racist.[\b]
Right?! Its actually bizarre! I feel particularly bad for the guy who plays the asian diner owner.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on August 01, 2016, 09:05:58 PM
Yeah, Mike and Molly even had Melissa McCarthy on it and it was teeeeeeeeerrible. The only semi-funny bits were where she did the physical comedy and even those weren't all that funny.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on August 02, 2016, 12:19:23 AM
Saw episodes of two broke girls and mike and molly recently.  Those shows suck and broke girls is also slightly racist.

it just seems like one painfully long MadTV sketch to me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 02, 2016, 07:10:26 AM
I remember when the early buzz for 2 broke girls talked about how it was a great feminist accomplishment.  It was one of only a handful of shows developed by a woman and starring women.  So I was pretty excited about it.  Until I watched it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on August 08, 2016, 11:06:28 AM
Preacher finale was atrocious.

I dunno, I like the general 'God is dead/MIA' idea. better than pretty much the last 8 episodes. though it was such a farcical execution.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 25, 2016, 12:25:36 PM
Watched all three of the new Amazon comedy pilots.

I Love Dick   6/10   Well acted and directed but ugh so pretentious.  It's a Jill Soloway show, so if you liked Transparent worth checking out, but not for me.

The Tick      7/10  Not what I expected at all.  Very different from previous incarnations of the Tick.  The world is a lot more real and the main character seems to be Arthur this time around.  The Tick himself was as lovable as ever but barely in the episode.  Willing to give a few more episodes a chance.


Jean Claude Van Johnson.  9/10  I laughed my ass off but I am worried that there's not enough material here for an entire series.  The pilot was great though if you view it as a one off. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on August 25, 2016, 12:37:02 PM
The Tick      7/10  Not what I expected at all.  Very different from previous incarnations of the Tick.  The world is a lot more real and the main character seems to be Arthur this time around.  The Tick himself was as lovable as ever but barely in the episode.  Willing to give a few more episodes a chance.

It is interesting.  There's certainly a "there" there.  I didn't like it as much as I love the old live-action show, but it was interesting.

I'm not sure about "Arthur the victim" versus the more usual "Arthur the dreamer".  We'll see.

Pete S. is performing just fine as the Tick, but Patrick Warburton WAS the Tick personified.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on August 25, 2016, 12:48:29 PM
I'll give any version of the Tick a chance but Warburton was born to play the tick. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on August 29, 2016, 09:42:00 AM
 The Last Ship  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ship_(TV_series))

A not-horrible/not-great sci fi genre story with fairly high production value.

The crew of the fictional US Navy destroyer USS Nathan James is out at sea and at "emissions control" condition for four months conducting a secret mission.  Mission ends.  Turns out while they were gone, 80% of the planet is wiped out by a viral pandemic.   Also turns out, their secret mission/cargo was the potential cure for the virus.  Can they get it to enough people to save humanity?

Michael Bay acts as exec producer.   It's hammy and overwrought, but looks great. Much of the first season was shot aboard the USS Dewey, USS Halsey and at Naval Station San Diego while I was stationed there. I have distinct memories of a sizeable chunk of Navy Station San Diego being shut down for filming, fudging up parking for many Sailors.

I watched a few episodes of season one this weekend.  I probably wont finish.  The type of person who enjoys average broadcast network fare would probably like this just fine.  Action, but not super violent, horror but not actually scary, tension, but no real dread.  I cant detect any new ground in the show that hasn't been covered by better examples of the post-apocalypse genre. 

As a Cruiser/Destroyer guy it IS fun to see action taking place on a destroyer actually shot aboard a destroyer with all the confinement and clutter that entails.  (Most modern Navy flicks feature roomy cavernous ships that anyone who spent real time on board actual combat vessels find amusing.)

Attempts are also made to feature actual combat procedures and terminology.  It's not always super accurate, but there's enough there to recognize that the production is consulting someone who knows what they're talking about.

A nice attempt, but not great.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 29, 2016, 12:28:58 PM
I liked season 1 of The Last Ship. I recommend finishing it.
Season 2 was kind of meh.
Season 3 lost me on episode 1.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on August 30, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
I liked season 1 of The Last Ship. I recommend finishing it.
Season 2 was kind of meh.
Season 3 lost me on episode 1.

That is about my view on it. Season 1 was good. 2 OK, but nothing special. Season 3 has gone a bit silly and fallen into a few Post-Apocalyptic tropes in recent episodes
Spoiler
A Cabal of like minded individuals has secretly taken over the US government, as they don't like the way the country is headed.
They have killed everyone in power that opposes their view, including the President. (Made to look like a suicide)
Set up a puppet President, who does what they say to keep his wife and children safe.
This new government has set up prisons/camps to house those that oppose them.
Built a wall to segregate their part of the US from the rest of the country and leave them to fend for themselves.

Only one person from the former Presidents staff is still alive, a former sailor from "The Last Ship". (USS Nathan James)
So no guesses to who she will turn to, to overturn the evil government and what the second half of Season 3 will be about.
She is being hunted by hitmen from the evil Cabal.
Spoiler
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 30, 2016, 07:58:30 AM
I'd put Alphas season 1 on this list, and Alphas season 2 on the best list.
The show is basically a live action x men comic, but season one is more of a procedural while season 2 has more of a season long story arc.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on August 30, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
I'd put Alphas season 1 on this list, and Alphas season 2 on the best list.
The show is basically a live action x men comic, but season one is more of a procedural while season 2 has more of a season long story arc.
A pretty good version of the "what if superheros exist in a more realistic world" story.  I think it just got lost among the rest of those shows and movies that have come out recently.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 01, 2016, 09:04:16 AM
Colony.  A bit of a slow start. But they establish reasonably well from the start characters may die. Season 1 wraps up and the alien stuff is still a mystery. Really not so bad.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on September 17, 2016, 09:52:46 AM
Dark Matter

handguns, bow-ties, consciousness duplicating 'teleportation', FTL space travel... not sure what year or alternative reality this is set in.

think I should just re-watch Firefly instead.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on September 17, 2016, 10:55:10 AM
Dark Matter


think I should just re-watch Firefly instead.
Thats how I feel about Killjoys.

Saw The Tick and I LOVE it.
The direction they are going with Arthur is really awesome imo and Im super (geddit?) excited to see more!

Edit-
I dont think Quarry is going to make it to being a great show.
The series only has 7 episodes to work and they are wallowing too much in the relationship drama and Quarry's tortured soul.

He isnt the cool customer from the books.
He looks like a flippin idiot with that moustache.
He is nowhere near as cunning or competant as his literary counterpart.

What made the books cool was that he had no real name, no one he loved and no regrets whatsoever.
They have taken all that away and made it a small town crime drama. The action was really good, but it was 5minutes of a 55 minute show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on September 20, 2016, 02:55:59 AM
The Walking Dead must be on here already...

I gave up on it 2 years ago, but just checked back in 'cos they put S6 up on Netflix.
Yeah, fuck this show. It's just watching people die really laboriously, over and over again. The deaths are so clumsily-staged, random, deliver no lesson, and no emotion. Just, "Oh. Okay". And everytime Rick or Glenn stop to make a speech, it makes me want to grab a gun, hop the gate, and take my chances in the field. God, the dialogue is hack.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 20, 2016, 08:16:24 AM
To my tastes, Walking Dead isn't perfect. Each season starts charging out of the gate and then about mid "season" the plot gets bogged down in some minutiae and you're like "fuck". They work hard to make it a character driven show, vs a monster of the week. They do okay in that. To me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 20, 2016, 08:37:23 AM
The Walking Dead must be on here already...

I gave up on it 2 years ago, but just checked back in 'cos they put S6 up on Netflix.
Yeah, fuck this show. It's just watching people die really laboriously, over and over again. The deaths are so clumsily-staged, random, deliver no lesson, and no emotion. Just, "Oh. Okay". And everytime Rick or Glenn stop to make a speech, it makes me want to grab a gun, hop the gate, and take my chances in the field. God, the dialogue is hack.

I feel the same way but I got there at the start of season 2.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 20, 2016, 10:53:36 AM
To my tastes, Walking Dead isn't perfect. Each season starts charging out of the gate and then about mid "season" the plot gets bogged down in some minutiae and you're like "fuck". They work hard to make it a character driven show, vs a monster of the week. They do okay in that. To me.

This is kind of where I am.  It will have a run of shows that are just great then a run of shows that are tedious as hell. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on September 20, 2016, 12:07:05 PM
To my tastes, Walking Dead isn't perfect. Each season starts charging out of the gate and then about mid "season" the plot gets bogged down in some minutiae and you're like "fuck". They work hard to make it a character driven show, vs a monster of the week. They do okay in that. To me.


The problem is, after the character pool is trimmed by natural selection, you're left with kinda the same character surviving. I can't really tell the difference between Rick, Glenn, Maggie, carl, Morgan, the mayor lady, Rosita, um the black girl with the army jacket, the guy who looks like grown-up 16-year-old Justin Timberlake. They all have about the same stone-faced optimism, because everyone with an interesting flaw or weakness has already been culled by the environment for having it. Carol and Daryl are a little different, and I like them best. The big guy and Mullet are different, but cartoon characters.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 22, 2016, 09:39:33 AM
Young Justice
The story of a teenage superhero team mainly featuring teenage justice league counterparts.  This is not Teen Titans.  The stories are excellent and the character arcs are surprisingly deep and fleshed out, but because this is still aimed at young adults, there are some more interesting character stories not dealt with as fully as they could be.  I totally recommend it if you are into the DC animated stuff.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on September 24, 2016, 02:12:50 PM
The new MacGyver show is one episode in.
Its pretty good. Better than most episodes in the original series at least.
Lots of action, a bit of charm, Mac uses his pocket knife a bunch and disarms a bomb with a paperclip.
Its somewhere between Chuck and Burn Notice.

My bff HATED it. But he has shitty taste.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 08, 2016, 11:37:51 AM
Z Nation is so much better than The Walking Dead. Its not great at all, and it carries lots of the cheesey hallmarks of The Asylum.
But for a company that relies on making intentionally shitty movies with names that sound like popular movies to turn a profit? They are innovating the shit out of it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on October 08, 2016, 01:05:17 PM
That is an odd opinion.  Except for the bit about Z Nation being much better than it ought to be considering its from the Asylum.

Is it weird that I really love that the Asylum exists?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 08, 2016, 01:11:22 PM
That is an odd opinion.  Except for the bit about Z Nation being much better than it ought to be considering its from the Asylum.

Is it weird that I really love that the Asylum exists?
I guess I just enjoy watching Z Nation more than TWD. I dont get mad at anyone and it doesnt take itself seriously while actually having an original take on zombies that is going somewhere!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on October 11, 2016, 05:29:20 PM
Actually, I can see where you're coming from.


Bones, started of as an entertaining, light if unrealistic procedural its now in season 11.  The writers on this show should have there fingers removed so they can never right again.  Its so completely lazy.  The characters are all one dimensional caricatures of where they started.   It was never great but it was entertaining but now, its just sucks. In the latest episode I watched, it appears as though one of the main characters has died but there's never a moment where you think they are and it would actually be a better show if the got rid of the two leads.  So, I was hoping he had died.  In that regard, its a lot like the Walking Dead. 

  The worst part I can't look away. Some sort of completionist fetish or something. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 11, 2016, 05:53:26 PM
I get like that with some shows too! I cant stop watching, but I dont have the energy to watch something that I know is highly acclaimed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 11, 2016, 10:43:49 PM
I'm really struggling to find any new TV shows I can be bothered with.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Andrew Clunn on October 11, 2016, 11:01:30 PM
I have no problem with walking away from a show.  I love giving things up that "waste time."  It's sort of this false self improvement high, where all I've really done is give up on a crummy show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: lubbarin on October 11, 2016, 11:22:25 PM
I'm really struggling to find any new TV shows I can be bothered with.
Then go back. I know there's a ton of highly acclaimed shit I missed the first time around.
Breaking Bad- never saw it.
The Wire- didn't see it
Mad Men- nope, missed that one.


Hell, I'll never have time, let alone new stuff.
(Bonus points for buying the Brisco County Jr box set, though, I made time for that)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 11, 2016, 11:41:03 PM
Then go back. I know there's a ton of highly acclaimed shit I missed the first time around.
Breaking Bad- never saw it.
The Wire- didn't see it
Mad Men- nope, missed that one.

seen it
seen it
heard it's overrated/not my thing anyway.

but I see the new season of Black Mirror starts in a couple weeks, so at least there's that
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on October 12, 2016, 09:20:03 AM
Hell yes, "Black Mirror".

I hear folks often hand the "Twilight Zone" mantle to some genre show or another.  This one actually deserves such consideration.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 12, 2016, 08:21:53 PM
Hell yes, "Black Mirror".

I hear folks often hand the "Twilight Zone" mantle to some genre show or another.  This one actually deserves such consideration.

it helps, I think, that it's made in England. imagine if they tried to do it in America and the executives are like 'ok, give us 20 episodes and maybe you'll get a second season'.

apparently they main guy behind Twilight Zone would just sit at home and dictate his scripts practically start to finish, like it was effortless. ...156 episodes in total. we've seen 7 from Black Mirror so far, 6 more coming this year. I'm glad it's quality over quantity, but I wonder how long they can sustain it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on October 14, 2016, 07:07:13 AM
Then go back. I know there's a ton of highly acclaimed shit I missed the first time around.
Breaking Bad- never saw it.
The Wire- didn't see it
Mad Men- nope, missed that one.

seen it
seen it
heard it's overrated/not my thing anyway.

but I see the new season of Black Mirror starts in a couple weeks, so at least there's that

Breaking Bad. IMO is the best TV show ever.
The Wire was good but starting to show it's age when I watched it (Last year)
Mad Men. Binged the first season after everyone was raving about it. Way over-rated and not for me, and I couldn't see why people liked the lead actor. He has been barely adequate in any roles I've seen him in.

Love Black Mirror, but when I recommend it to friends and family, I advise to start at Episode 2 then watch Episode 1 after you've seen a few episodes.
The pig episode can put some people off. I don't know why?  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on October 14, 2016, 02:13:46 PM
I was never blown away by mad men either. I would put it on sometimes as background noise but found it pretty boring and not sure why so many people raved about it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 14, 2016, 02:24:15 PM
I was never blown away by mad men either. I would put it on sometimes as background noise but found it pretty boring and not sure why so many people raved about it.
I found the initial mystery intriguing, but I came to realise I was watching a well acted soap opera with nice costumes.
I went two seasons without anything happening that I gave a shit about.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on October 16, 2016, 12:52:13 PM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: DonA on October 16, 2016, 01:03:32 PM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
You are twice the person I am.  I had to shut the 1st episode off.  Deeply diappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 16, 2016, 01:13:26 PM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
You are twice the person I am.  I had to shut the 1st episode off.  Deeply diappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
I can certainly understand why people wouldnt like it.
I dont get how people are comparing it unfavourably to the original though. Having recently rewatched the entire original series, there are huge parts of each season that are basically unwatchable! Even the best episodes are just meh.
Its always been a pretty poor property.
But one that I just cant stop at least trying to watch!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on October 17, 2016, 08:54:09 AM
Marcella on Netflix (an ITV production).

Tries to be kind of a cross between Happy Valley, The Fall, and Denmark's The Killing. Fires on a cylinder or two short. Lots of characters to keep track of. Lots of relationships. Keeps you guessing mostly to the end, although I'm not the smartest person when I watch these shows.

Lots of idiot plot moments, however. Stuff I don't think cops would ever actually do.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on October 17, 2016, 01:32:07 PM
Marcella on Netflix (an ITV production).

Tries to be kind of a cross between Happy Valley, The Fall, and Denmark's The Killing. Fires on a cylinder or two short. Lots of characters to keep track of. Lots of relationships. Keeps you guessing mostly to the end, although I'm not the smartest person when I watch these shows.

Lots of idiot plot moments, however. Stuff I don't think cops would ever actually do.

Agree 100% with your assessment.

_____________________________________________

Goliath - New Amazon Prime show starring Billy Bob Thorton as.. you guessed it.. a foul mouthed alcoholic asshole.. who happens to be a disgraced lawyer. I've only watched 2 episodes so far, and I'm intrigued enough by the plot to watch the rest, but there's something about it. Great actors who are not doing a great job acting. Tells me there's something off about the director. It's got outrageous things that happen constantly. A bit too often for it to feel right. It's almost like a dramedy, but not enough funny things happen for it to meet that label.

Sort of like the issues described above with Marcella. It's not quite all there.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on October 17, 2016, 09:32:44 PM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
You are twice the person I am.  I had to shut the 1st episode off.  Deeply diappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
I can certainly understand why people wouldnt like it.
I dont get how people are comparing it unfavourably to the original though. Having recently rewatched the entire original series, there are huge parts of each season that are basically unwatchable! Even the best episodes are just meh.
Its always been a pretty poor property.
But one that I just cant stop at least trying to watch!

I'm not surprised that the original series doesn't hold up. At the time it was an entirely new kind of heroic action - at least it was for me. It was iconic enough to become a verb, even. In that sense the concept of the show is better than the show. Sadly, the concept of the reboot is also much better than the show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on October 18, 2016, 10:18:45 AM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
You are twice the person I am.  I had to shut the 1st episode off.  Deeply diappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
I can certainly understand why people wouldnt like it.
I dont get how people are comparing it unfavourably to the original though. Having recently rewatched the entire original series, there are huge parts of each season that are basically unwatchable! Even the best episodes are just meh.
Its always been a pretty poor property.
But one that I just cant stop at least trying to watch!
Nostalgia!  I also tried to watch a few episode on Netflix, mostly difficult  I agree with Brillington though, it was sorta different from most other TV/Film.  We hadn't had a nerd action hero since the 50s.  In some ways it was like a smarter version of the A-Team. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on October 19, 2016, 10:19:23 AM
Just watched the first two MacGyver reboot.

Meh.
You are twice the person I am.  I had to shut the 1st episode off.  Deeply diappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
I can certainly understand why people wouldnt like it.
I dont get how people are comparing it unfavourably to the original though. Having recently rewatched the entire original series, there are huge parts of each season that are basically unwatchable! Even the best episodes are just meh.
Its always been a pretty poor property.
But one that I just cant stop at least trying to watch!
Nostalgia!  I also tried to watch a few episode on Netflix, mostly difficult  I agree with Brillington though, it was sorta different from most other TV/Film.  We hadn't had a nerd action hero since the 50s.  In some ways it was like a smarter version of the A-Team.

Oh my. I never thought of that connection. I did love the A-Team back in the day.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on October 19, 2016, 10:48:34 AM
Stuff I don't think cops would ever actually do.
Describes pretty much every US cop show. 

ETA:  Probably most non-US cop shows too, but I generally only get to see the best of those.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 19, 2016, 11:06:33 AM
Stuff I don't think cops would ever actually do.
Describes pretty much every US cop show. 

ETA:  Probably most non-US cop shows too, but I generally only get to see the best of those.

if you ever get the chance. compare C.O.P.S (America) with Police 10/7 (New Zealand) :)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on October 19, 2016, 06:47:32 PM
Goliath is getting better. On episode 5 now and I'm liking it more and more. It's only an 8 episode season which I prefer to the typical streaming-show 12-13 episode run.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 21, 2016, 10:23:19 AM
did he really just say 'I hate trees'?

American Horror Story is looking pretty dubious right now

Spoiler
Spoiler
two axe wounds to the abdomin ... think I'll go for a walk down the hallway.
[close]
ep 2 looking equally ridiculous, but I'm commited to the season.

Spoiler
couple one-armed hits with a shovel kill someone? it wasn't exactly a king hit.

as if that wasn't unbelievable enough, a psychologist knows how to build a gazebo in an afternoon? and if she knew covering over her grave would mean she's stuck here, why not go downstairs and say something
[close]
ep 3 not looking much better. grrr.

up to ep 7 now
Spoiler
so, it seems like all of his patients are already dead or die... I get that there are illusions going on, like the young maid, but does this extend to his bank account? 'cause I doubt dead people pay for therapy.
[close]

ep 8...
Spoiler
'we don't need to be prisoners to this house anymore' ... oh no, there's ghosts in my car. oh well, if I can't drive I'm sure as fuck not gunna walk/bus/Uber, ::runs back into the house instead of down the road::
[close]
ep 10... :)
Spoiler
well, at least I didn't see that coming :)
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 29, 2016, 05:42:22 PM
I just finished Quarry. Yes, I know I should have stopped watching, but I somehow just cant stop with things I hate. Its the only reason I workout or get up in the morning.
I think knowing it was only 8 episodes kept me going and I have a fascination for bad writing (not that Im actually very good myself. But one can appreciate).
I think what really grabbed me was that this show only had to be one very simple thing in order to be awesome. The most simple and explicitly stated thing in the books it was based on (affable and ruthless man kills for money. Complications ensue), but they went a different way. And that would have been fine...
Except we ended up with an unlikeable and incompetant protagonist, who cant seem to get anything right, who makes emotional decisions constantly and isnt even smart enough to bring a spare mag to a gunfight.

We have Buddy, a really fascinating character played by Damon Herriman of Justified, who was amazing and compelling as a jaded and competent hitman, depressed about his lack of options as a gay man in Memphis in the 70s. His story goes fucking NOWHERE.
We have Jamie Hector (who played Marlo in The Wire) who is barely there but hints at a better show that we didnt get to see.
We follow characters who have no bearing on the plot. We look at events as they unfolded in the 70's, the munich olympics, the election at the time, race relations and homophobia.
None of it is relevant to the annoying story of Mac (Quarry) being utterly shit at life and yet being The Brokers seeming pet project and valued above his genuinely incredible team of killers, detectives and marksmen.
Macs marriage problems and his wifes worries about his ptsd only serve to make the episodes longer and the annoying emphasis on the 70's Memphis music scene just seemed like the showrunner had a pet project he had wanted to make and this was his only shot.
The show does capture the aesthetic and dirty feel of my early childhood memories-unshowered men with moustaches drinking and smoking in brown rooms and driving brown cars around nowhere locations. So it probably got the feeling of the era right?
But we still have to be battered with the fact that Mac has modern sensibilities- He is colour blind (the character in the book was mildly racist), he leans democrat and the fucker even puts butter in his fucking coffee.
This is all before I get to the convoluted and annoying plot that revolves around the heroin trade, of Quarry being picked for the job while being in Vietnam and of the annoying cop sub plot that, again, goes fucking nowhere.

This is high concept TV that just fell flat on its face in every episode. Over directed and under edited.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on October 29, 2016, 09:36:21 PM
I just finished Quarry. Yes, I know I should have stopped watching, but I somehow just cant stop with things I hate......

This is high concept TV that just fell flat on its face in every episode. Over directed and under edited.

That is disappointing. I was waiting for it to finish before starting it.

I haven't read your points in between the two sentences I quote. I'll at least watch the first couple to see if it is worth watching to the end.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 30, 2016, 06:11:42 AM
I just finished Quarry. Yes, I know I should have stopped watching, but I somehow just cant stop with things I hate......

This is high concept TV that just fell flat on its face in every episode. Over directed and under edited.

That is disappointing. I was waiting for it to finish before starting it.

I haven't read your points in between the two sentences I quote. I'll at least watch the first couple to see if it is worth watching to the end.
Oh give it a look!
 Id love to hear an alternate take on it.
The reviews Ive read are pretty good, but many sites try not to review stuff the dont like so who knows.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on October 30, 2016, 07:01:06 AM
I just finished Quarry. Yes, I know I should have stopped watching, but I somehow just cant stop with things I hate......

This is high concept TV that just fell flat on its face in every episode. Over directed and under edited.

That is disappointing. I was waiting for it to finish before starting it.

I haven't read your points in between the two sentences I quote. I'll at least watch the first couple to see if it is worth watching to the end.
Oh give it a look!
 Id love to hear an alternate take on it.
The reviews Ive read are pretty good, but many sites try not to review stuff the dont like so who knows.

It is next on my queue after I finish Luke Cage and Black Mirror (S3).

I'll at least give it a try.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on November 02, 2016, 01:02:25 PM
I really enjoyed Humans season 1 on BBC. It wasn't great TV. I was really annoyed with the season 2 premier. I don't like the direction the plot is going. I think it's not a well enough written show to cover the subject of androids gaining humanity.

I'm much more bothered this season with the new android jobs they are introducing. There's a couple new jobs that are done by robots that they introduced (I don't remember seeing anything like this in season 1) that make very little sense for a humanoid android to be doing: Sweeping the park, mining with a pick-axe, moving goods around a warehouse. Having human arms and legs seems like an incredibly inefficient way to do these tasks. It really bothers me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on November 02, 2016, 06:02:16 PM
The Good Place is pretty great, but I have a feeling it won't stay on the air long enough to graduate to the Very Best TV list.

But I give it my highest recommendation. Watch it.  Kristen Bell is putting in an Emmy worthy performance so far.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 02, 2016, 06:18:15 PM
The Good Place is pretty great, but I have a feeling it won't stay on the air long enough to graduate to the Very Best TV list.

But I give it my highest recommendation. Watch it.  Kristen Bell is putting in an Emmy worthy performance so far.
I just got caught up on it. Im hoping Ted Danson is enough to buy it more time.
Im really on the edge of my seat with the last reveal, not many sitcoms can do that.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: MikeHz on November 04, 2016, 10:21:24 AM
Red Oaks, a coming-of-age comedy series on Amazon, is worth watching. Intelligent plots, well-produced and acted, with no annoying laugh track. 81% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on November 07, 2016, 08:52:01 AM
The Crown. Meh. Doctor Who as Prince Philip. Princess Margaret as one saucy minx! An interesting walk, so far, through some 1950s history. 7/10.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on November 07, 2016, 09:27:07 AM
Fuller House, you could teach class on bad sitcoms based on this show.   I know, I knew that going in still, it's aggressively bad, like a direct to syndication sitcom from the early 80s bad.  Worth watching an episode for that reason alone. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on November 07, 2016, 09:31:50 AM
Fuller House, you could teach class on bad sitcoms based on this show.   I know, I knew that going in still, it's aggressively bad, like a direct to syndication sitcom from the early 80s bad.  Worth watching an episode for that reason alone.

Full House perfectly executed what it was trying to do.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on November 07, 2016, 09:44:30 AM
Full House perfectly executed what it was trying to do.

They meant to make it that bad  ???
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on December 18, 2016, 05:38:48 PM
The OA.

Honestly, I can't say it better than Vox did
http://www.vox.com/culture/2016/12/17/13903980/the-oa-review-netflix
Quote
The important thing is that The OA defies description. To talk about it is to rob it of some of its weirdo power. I can’t precisely tell you if I liked or hated this show. I don’t even know. I liked some of it. I hated some of it. But I enjoyed watching it because I couldn’t believe it was a real television program.

There are a few things that will immensely piss off skeptics
Spoiler
namely the fact that the show is driven by two anti-skeptical themes.. NDEs and a strong anti-psychopharmacology message
[close]
, but if you can will yourself to ignore those things and watch it as a show set in a fantastic world (fantastic in that non-natural things happen) maybe you'll get some enjoyment out of it. I binged it this weekend so I can't claim to have hated the experience of watching it, but I don't love the show as a whole.

Anyway.. watch it I guess.. or don't.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on December 18, 2016, 08:46:04 PM
I can't believe "2 Broke Girls" is still going.

Its six fucking seasons in. SIX. It jumped the shark on episode one, and its still going.
To be honest, it makes me angry that it exists and that it is hugely popular.
Its just so hollow and vapid....
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on December 18, 2016, 09:18:41 PM
my mom loves 2BG (or...watches it, anyway) and Big Bang Theory, and 21/2Men. all the big name insipid sitcoms
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on December 18, 2016, 09:37:02 PM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on December 19, 2016, 09:32:07 AM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"

Does anyone else remember when two broke girls was actually hailed as a progressive victory due to its inclusive cast and female leads?  That lasted pretty much up to the moment the first episode ended.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: seamas on December 19, 2016, 11:28:03 AM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"


Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 19, 2016, 11:49:33 AM
Kat Dennings is actually pretty good, the writing just sucks and the laugh track necessarily throws timing out the window.  I've seen roughly 20 minutes of the show, I still say 2 1/2 men is worse but not by much.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on December 19, 2016, 11:50:25 AM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"


Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Every sitcom that goes on in perpetuity falls victim to this.  The characters all start out as distinct personalities, but people love Kramer,  so eventually everyone is Kramer.

I think in this way the British model is superior.  A show lasts 3-4 seasons on purpose.  Just look at the British "Office" and American "Office".  In the American "Office" Michael Scott becomes the hero of the thing, which was NOT how the show started, but hey, everyone loves Michael......
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 19, 2016, 11:59:02 AM
I think in this way the British model is superior.  A show lasts 3-4 seasons on purpose.  Just look at the British "Office" and American "Office".  In the American "Office" Michael Scott becomes the hero of the thing, which was NOT how the show started, but hey, everyone loves Michael......
Even if the show lasts 20 series, its only as many episodes as 5 or 6 seasons of a US tv show.  It just doesn't give them as much time to get stale.  Also, one show cant' be a full time job, doesn't give the writers or actors nearly as much time to get bored of a show. 

On the other hand, it doesn't give them time to do something like the X-files, where I'd argue the filler episodes were better than than the main story line.  Or something like the 24.  If the US would just let hit shows die at there peak instead of dragging on past their prime, we wouldn't have that problem. 

Also, 2BG and 2.5 men, sucked start to finish, it wasn't because they got stale, they started out stale.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: seamas on December 19, 2016, 05:06:15 PM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"


Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Every sitcom that goes on in perpetuity falls victim to this.  The characters all start out as distinct personalities, but people love Kramer,  so eventually everyone is Kramer.

I was speaking more of the awful stilted feeling that most TV pilots have--including the pilot---and whole early 1st season of Seinfeld.

I think in this way the British model is superior.  A show lasts 3-4 seasons on purpose.  Just look at the British "Office" and American "Office".  In the American "Office" Michael Scott becomes the hero of the thing, which was NOT how the show started, but hey, everyone loves Michael......

Hated that character. In general I don't care for the actor either.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on December 19, 2016, 06:09:18 PM
Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Morgan Murphy, one of the comics on their writing staff has spoken highly of her talents as an actress, too.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: stonesean on December 20, 2016, 08:35:56 AM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"


Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Every sitcom that goes on in perpetuity falls victim to this.  The characters all start out as distinct personalities, but people love Kramer,  so eventually everyone is Kramer.

I was speaking more of the awful stilted feeling that most TV pilots have--including the pilot---and whole early 1st season of Seinfeld.

I think in this way the British model is superior.  A show lasts 3-4 seasons on purpose.  Just look at the British "Office" and American "Office".  In the American "Office" Michael Scott becomes the hero of the thing, which was NOT how the show started, but hey, everyone loves Michael......

Hated that character. In general I don't care for the actor either.

You do understand that as far as television goes, that show was a hit and a big reason was that character though, right?  I wasn't attempting to specifically address your personal tastes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 20, 2016, 09:39:05 AM
Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Morgan Murphy, one of the comics on their writing staff has spoken highly of her talents as an actress, too.
Ironic, considering its primarily the writing(and direction) that make that show suck so much.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on December 20, 2016, 10:24:20 AM
Kat Dennings is actually pretty good, the writing just sucks and the laugh track necessarily throws timing out the window.  I've seen roughly 20 minutes of the show, I still say 2 1/2 men is worse but not by much.

The cast of all those shows is actually pretty good, and they need to be.  Those actors really wring all they can out of the total crap they are given.

Also, so far Season 3 of Mozart in the Jungle continues its streak of perfectly cromulent television.  *though compared to the above shows, this is shakespeare.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: seamas on December 20, 2016, 01:17:46 PM
I mean, Im by no means an elitist. I like stupid TV shows. I like stuff that is just okay, im not even that picky.
But that show is just so, for a lack of a better term, stupid.

Its just a paint by numbers show. I can just imagine the writers room.

"Okay guys, then get this, the BLACK guy says something like "you crazy crackers"
"hiLARIOUS jon"
"Then the perverted foreigner is all like "I would love to bite that cracker"
"oH! INSPIRED!"
"Then the girls look at each other and say something snarky and pause for a 5 second laugh track"
"End scene! Great work today guys!"


Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Every sitcom that goes on in perpetuity falls victim to this.  The characters all start out as distinct personalities, but people love Kramer,  so eventually everyone is Kramer.

I was speaking more of the awful stilted feeling that most TV pilots have--including the pilot---and whole early 1st season of Seinfeld.

I think in this way the British model is superior.  A show lasts 3-4 seasons on purpose.  Just look at the British "Office" and American "Office".  In the American "Office" Michael Scott becomes the hero of the thing, which was NOT how the show started, but hey, everyone loves Michael......

Hated that character. In general I don't care for the actor either.

You do understand that as far as television goes, that show was a hit and a big reason was that character though, right?  I wasn't attempting to specifically address your personal tastes.

Oh, I didn't think you were commenting on my taste.  You might be right about him being the reason for the show being a hit. I didn't care for how they had the other characters become more fond of him. Didn't ring well. I watched it from time to time and occasionally it could be very good, but have never had the urge to rewatch it. The original (british version) was pretty good but didn't do much more for me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on December 20, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
Uggghhhh. That show is the pits. 2 1/2 men is equally bad, Big Bang Theory is close.
I recall reading some article --I forget the real subject--but it referred to the brunette actress as a "master of comic timing". I was literally shocked that ANYONE would write that. I  have seen maybe a total of an hour of that show over the years and it amazes me how much every single minuted STILL looks like a pilot episode. Bad jokes, stilted acting. I HATE when you can see the actors pause after every lame joke so as to leave room for the laugh track to go on for 3-4 seconds.

Morgan Murphy, one of the comics on their writing staff has spoken highly of her talents as an actress, too.
Ironic, considering its primarily the writing(and direction) that make that show suck so much.

maybe she's impressed someone can pull off such atrocious material?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 27, 2017, 02:31:33 PM
Found this thing on Amazon last night. 
Super knocked-up.  A sit come based on the notion of a super villain and super hero have a one night stand and the super villain gets knocked, hilarity ensues.  Its not good but I think the concept is funny enough I kind of hope it gets more episodes and a better budget.  Episodes are maybe 3 minutes long.

It would drive my wife nuts because any plot about a couple forced together after a one night stand stopped making sense since 1973.   She also hates the plot device because she wants abortion normalized.  I keep telling her there's no humor and not much drama in character having an abortion with out any drama but it practically writes itself if the mother chooses not to have an abortion or there's angst about it. 

Anyrate, its not good but its short and has potential.  So, maybe they'd get a better budget if you all take a look?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on January 29, 2017, 05:32:45 PM
The Young Pope

I made it through, but I fell asleep literally on every one of the four episodes. I guess it's interesting to find some parallels to Trump's power grab. Guy who drinks his own koolaid, anointed by God, gets in power and then bucks all expectation and tradition to swerve hard right. People who actually got him there can do nothing but watch the newly-infallible strong-man ruin their institution. Eventually, they will resort to treachery to try and oust him. Except it moves so goddamned slow, everything unfolds in terse 20 minute conversations behind a desk or else in long strolls through the garden. I think everything that happened so far could have been condensed to 1 episode.
There's a little magical realism, which I like, where they toy with: is he or isn't he God's chosen one, with some actual mystical powers. That could be fun, in the next series.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on January 29, 2017, 07:55:24 PM
Van Helsing (Netflix) folding clothes/10

The show was awkward and uneven, especially the editing. You shouldn't notice editing. Interesting idea, but also quite predictable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on January 29, 2017, 08:22:02 PM
Watched half of The Tick episode 1 on Amazon and stopped because SkeptiOther (SkeptiNear?) neeeeeeds to watch this with me, as long story it takes. Hints of Wilfred, Arrow, and The Flash in just the right amount.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on January 29, 2017, 10:08:34 PM
Watched half of The Tick episode 1 on Amazon and stopped because SkeptiOther (SkeptiNear?) neeeeeeds to watch this with me, as long story it takes. Hints of Wilfred, Arrow, and The Flash in just the right amount.

Sounds like it doesn't belong in this thread, then?
I agree. Need that full season, STAT!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on January 29, 2017, 10:18:01 PM
So I finally bought this season of New Girl and.. it feels like it's winding down. It still has its moments but I don't know, it just lacks some of the hilarity that previous seasons possessed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on January 29, 2017, 10:59:02 PM
Watched half of The Tick episode 1 on Amazon and stopped because SkeptiOther (SkeptiNear?) neeeeeeds to watch this with me, as long story it takes. Hints of Wilfred, Arrow, and The Flash in just the right amount.

Sounds like it doesn't belong in this thread, then?
I agree. Need that full season, STAT!
I read the title wrong. In the correct vein:

Penny Dreadful. It's okay folding laundry TV, but too much complex dialogue for shitting out undergrad papers. About perfect time for housecleaning or other tasks that don't require verbal concentration.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 30, 2017, 09:34:44 AM
The magicians season premiere was very good.  It's rare for a sure to handle silly and serious in the same breath.  But it just seems to be missing something that keeps me from putting it ont he very best TV shows list.   And I watched Supergirl for the first time in a while, it seems to be in a pretty consistent 7-8 out of ten range.  If only it was a little less melodramatic, it could really be great. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on January 30, 2017, 10:51:33 AM
Van Helsing (Netflix) folding clothes/10

The show was awkward and uneven, especially the editing. You shouldn't notice editing. Interesting idea, but also quite predictable.

Got about halfway through E3, just sorta stopped and never started up again.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 30, 2017, 11:01:51 AM
Quote
Vanessa (the descendant of Abraham Van Helsing) is resurrected in a post-apocalyptic world, three years after her death, to lead a resistance against the vampires that plague it
Huh, why bring her back from the dead?  Just to throw one more fantasy/horror element.  That alone makes think they don't know what they're doing.

Just finished Penny dreadful, seems like it lasted a season beyond what they had actually planned for or a few seasons shorter than they expected.  Hard to tell which.  Towards the end, I was just watching to see what happened next rather than enjoying the episodes.

I agree Slick on New Girl.  It definitely lost something.  They handled the couple getting together relatively well but it lost a step after that.  Also, Winston was essentially Coach so when they brought Coach back they had a character they didn't know what to do with, so they made him stupider and crazier.  Overall, strong start and a good first 2 seasons.  It would have been a much loved comedy with fan base forever wistful for more episodes in the English Model.  In the US model, its sorta petering to an end. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on January 30, 2017, 12:09:02 PM
Quote
Vanessa (the descendant of Abraham Van Helsing) is resurrected in a post-apocalyptic world, three years after her death, to lead a resistance against the vampires that plague it
Huh, why bring her back from the dead?  Just to throw one more fantasy/horror element.  That alone makes think they don't know what they're doing.

That element does make some sense.
Spoiler
When the vampire plague begins she and her daughter are attacked in their apartment. Vanessa is bitten and apparently dies. Some time later she comes back to life all on her own, but remains in a coma for three years. When she finally awakens again she has many of the powers of a vampire but without some of their vulnerabilities. She's a daywalker, essentially. Oh, and vampires that bite her or are bitten by her are turned back into humans and can't be made back into vampires again after that.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on January 30, 2017, 05:54:29 PM
The Young Pope

I made it through, but I fell asleep literally on every one of the four episodes. I guess it's interesting to find some parallels to Trump's power grab. Guy who drinks his own koolaid, anointed by God, gets in power and then bucks all expectation and tradition to swerve hard right. People who actually got him there can do nothing but watch the newly-infallible strong-man ruin their institution. Eventually, they will resort to treachery to try and oust him. Except it moves so goddamned slow, everything unfolds in terse 20 minute conversations behind a desk or else in long strolls through the garden. I think everything that happened so far could have been condensed to 1 episode.
There's a little magical realism, which I like, where they toy with: is he or isn't he God's chosen one, with some actual mystical powers. That could be fun, in the next series.

I disagree with your assessment. I'm enthralled by this show. The production value, acting, and editing are all really gorgeous. It's so visually and auditorily interesting.

As for the plot.. I don't know if it's having been raised catholic and having gone to the Vatican both as a believer and since my deconversion but there's so much about it that is so fascinating. I love the politics of the bishops, but more than anything I love that Jude Law is a Pope who "has doubts" (to quote another excellent but subtle movie about catholicism) and that decides that the way to fight these doubts is to be as literal to the teachings of the church as possible, and what comes out of it is subtly terrifying on the one hand, but awesome on the other.

It's great stuff. Sorry you don't like it, but it does seem like something that is not for everyone.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 31, 2017, 08:46:03 AM
Riverdale? I'm not an Archie reader but I'm familiar with the characters and story. The first ep makes me want to watch the second ep.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 31, 2017, 09:54:07 AM
Riverdale? I'm not an Archie reader but I'm familiar with the characters and story. The first ep makes me want to watch the second ep.
To kids still read Archie?  This seems odd to me, like when SNL does a sketch mocking a sitcom from the 50s?  Who's this for? People nostalgic for Archie?  Do they exist?

That being said, it intrigues me, a darker take on Archie.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on January 31, 2017, 10:01:03 AM
Riverdale? I'm not an Archie reader but I'm familiar with the characters and story. The first ep makes me want to watch the second ep.
To kids still read Archie?  This seems odd to me, like when SNL does a sketch mocking a sitcom from the 50s?  Who's this for? People nostalgic for Archie?  Do they exist?

That being said, it intrigues me, a darker take on Archie.

If you like dark they have done a few horror storylines with the Archie series. Most notably "Afterlife with Archie" where they kill off a few of the beloved characters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife_with_Archie

Even the normal teen friendly Archie has got a makeover with my favourite comic book artist doing the art. Fiona Staples, which if you are not reading Saga, you all should be.
http://archiecomics.com/preview-the-new-archie-comics-on-sale-39-including-archie-volume-one/

Archie isn't for me though. It's been 40+ years since I read any of those comics.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on January 31, 2017, 10:10:11 AM
Riverdale? I'm not an Archie reader but I'm familiar with the characters and story. The first ep makes me want to watch the second ep.
To kids still read Archie?  This seems odd to me, like when SNL does a sketch mocking a sitcom from the 50s?  Who's this for? People nostalgic for Archie?  Do they exist?

That being said, it intrigues me, a darker take on Archie.

If you like dark they have done a few horror storylines with the Archie series. Most notably "Afterlife with Archie" where they kill off a few of the beloved characters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife_with_Archie

Even the normal teen friendly Archie has got a makeover with my favourite comic book artist doing the art. Fiona Staples, which if you are not reading Saga, you all should be.
http://archiecomics.com/preview-the-new-archie-comics-on-sale-39-including-archie-volume-one/

Archie isn't for me though. It's been 40+ years since I read any of those comics.

They've re-done the entire Archie family of books.  With great success, from all I've been able to gather - not a terrible or ill-prepared or mindless reboot, but a genuine, thoughtful, best-intentioned new beginning.  I grabbed all the Waid-Staples issues of the main title, but dropped them when Staples (who is from my town) moved on to other projects.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: brilligtove on February 02, 2017, 01:51:27 AM
Riverdale? I'm not an Archie reader but I'm familiar with the characters and story. The first ep makes me want to watch the second ep.
To kids still read Archie?  This seems odd to me, like when SNL does a sketch mocking a sitcom from the 50s?  Who's this for? People nostalgic for Archie?  Do they exist?

That being said, it intrigues me, a darker take on Archie.

If you like dark they have done a few horror storylines with the Archie series. Most notably "Afterlife with Archie" where they kill off a few of the beloved characters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife_with_Archie

Even the normal teen friendly Archie has got a makeover with my favourite comic book artist doing the art. Fiona Staples, which if you are not reading Saga, you all should be.
http://archiecomics.com/preview-the-new-archie-comics-on-sale-39-including-archie-volume-one/

Archie isn't for me though. It's been 40+ years since I read any of those comics.

They've re-done the entire Archie family of books.  With great success, from all I've been able to gather - not a terrible or ill-prepared or mindless reboot, but a genuine, thoughtful, best-intentioned new beginning.  I grabbed all the Waid-Staples issues of the main title, but dropped them when Staples (who is from my town) moved on to other projects.

I'd say this convo would make more sense in the best thread, and not the [/b]not the best[/b] thread. :) The first episode has me hooked. The reimagining - acting, scripting, and editing - is really clever, often subtle, and frequently subversive.

I'm impressed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 08, 2017, 08:58:30 AM
My fiance was raised on a diet of Archie, though she's 40. That's mostly why we started watching it. I wasn't much of a fan (I'm 50) but I'm familiar with the characters from being alive in the 1970s.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: SkeptiQueer on March 05, 2017, 05:27:28 PM
Continuing my Seeso trial, Harmonquest: 2/10.

Alright. So 2 out of the 2 Seeso things I've watched have been short, about 26 minutes per episode. Problem: Harmonquest is a roleplay game show, and 25 minutes of play (minus the intro and outro) is barely enough time for anything to happen. They're using Pathfinder (I think) but the rules structure is so divorced form the show that they should have used something more rules-light and just had fun with it. There's also a lot of not really funny stuff happening that's applauded as though it's funny.

If it was people ironically pretending to play D&D and hitting tropes, it would be funny. If it was an Adventure Zone style play podcast with people sort of unfamiliar with the system and also who were entertaining, it would be watchable. Unfortunately, Dan Harmon is he comedic equivalent of a brown paper bag, the redhead (I didn't catch a name or it didn't stick) is almost incoherent most of the time, and the other guy (also no name I can recall) appears to be the only one who has potential.

Worst of all, I briefly had a D&D player who thought that Harmonquest was a model campaign, and was just constantly disruptive in a "LOOK AT HOW WACKY I AM" way. I can only blame Harmonquest for this. I get it, I have really enjoyed campaigns that get out of hand, but that only works when it gets out of hand because the players are playing their characters well, not when the entire character concept is WOW LOOK AT HOW WACKY I AM I'M TOTALLLY INCONSISTENT FROM SCENE TO SCENE BECAUSE IT'S FUNNY.

Some of the comedians they have as rotating guest players are really funny people, but I watched Chelsea Peretti and Paul F. Tompkins struggle to deliver a performance. I like watching those people, and I did not enjoy them at all in this.

2/10. Not funny, not engaging as a story or a game, continually interrupts itself, and generally was all the worst things I can imagine in a role play game. I would expect this from a bunch of kids who watched the first D&D episode of Community and then decided they could make a YouTube version of that in their garage. I am extremely disappointed that creative, funny people turned out this hot steamy turd.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 15, 2017, 10:37:57 AM
Colony is picking up in its second season. I do like after 2 seasons we know very little about the aliens.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 17, 2017, 10:08:26 PM
2 episodes into Iron Fist.
Its unbearably bad.
Terrible dialogue. Mediocre choreography. Shite story. Bad characters. Bad acting.
The first 10 minutes had me hopeful but Im not sure I can finish this.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 17, 2017, 10:28:05 PM
It picks up (a little) after the third episode.  It's worth running in the background, more or less. 

It's funny that they deliberately wrote the protagonist to be an idiot. 

Edit: There's some throw away lines I really like.  Episode 10's not too shabby either.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on March 18, 2017, 10:26:10 AM
Its kinda good that that team is not preternaturally great at writing.  It also is good that their worst example of writing is not the last half of a black culture focused show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 19, 2017, 12:25:51 PM
Ok so for me, the show never got better.
It suffered the same bizarre coincidence storytelling that dragged Luke Cages second half down. Mild generic spoilers below:

Finn Jones is a terrible actor. His performance is unlikeable and unbelievable. He is terrible at the stunt work, he cant even run convincingly.
The character himself just REEKS of entitlement. He cant comprehend how people dont believe him or give him whateber he wants. He just tells people that he is awesome and that he is Iron Fist and people quite rightly give him blank stares (later, he claims everyone he told wants to use him as a weapon. This is a flat out lie.)
The character is written as unsympathetically emotionally unstable and abusive (he beats a student in a kung fu class he wasnt even invited to, let alone be in charge of)

People compare it to Ironman and Batman in terms of played out tropes, but its far worse than that. At least those two struck out and made themselves. Danny stumbles on a monastary and is 'destined' to be the one. He is just a petulant kid who wants all the best bits of both of his ide toties but without any of the responsibilities.
Seeing him get played by, and try to intimidate an old lady he is interrogating is fucking embarrasing.
A throwaway line by one character motivates him to
Spoiler
Travel to China and kidnap an old lady back to the US?!
[close]
Seeing him fall for a bugs bunny level honey trap in mid fight is even worse.
All the action is awful and lacks momentum, weight or stakes. Danny rarely punches anyone in the face and when someone gets badly hurt in his fights he freaks out. Like a kid doing karate moves in the playground.
Speaking of karate- the conflation between japanese and chinese arts is very clumsy. Its never really acknowledged, students of each tradition just kind of slip into the other whenever suits.
Rosario Dawson is wasted but at least her character seems as exasperated as I felt. I have no idea why she stuck around.
The character of Davos was interesting. He SHOULD have been the Iron Fist but the predestined golden boy was instead and fucked it up. Interesting how the same description could be applied to both actors because he would have made a far better Danny Rand.

The corporate bullshit was bullshit. And boring. I dont watch kung fu shows to see the trials and tribulations of being a billionaire.

As I said,I enjoyed the first 10 minutes but after that I dont have a single good thing to say about this piece of shit.

Anyway, I dont think theres anything here that you need to see in order to watch the Defenders, which is the only reason I watched it all. But I dont think most people dislike it as much as I did.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on March 19, 2017, 02:01:43 PM
Some of the things you mention - a deluded, entitled upper middle class white martial artist thinking he's hot shit and not understanding why nobody else thinks he's a hero - seem like they'd be fantastic territory to explore, although I can understand Marvel not wanting someone to trash one of their franchises, even a long dead franchise like Iron Fist, like that. Sucks that it's no good though.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 19, 2017, 02:07:39 PM
Also, that heroin would be a boon for harm minimization.  Chemically pure with easily controlled dosage and build up of tolerance?  Easily mass produced?  That stuff's gold from a public health standpoint

Edit:. I don't know how Buck keeps getting work.  You'd think that after ruining the last few seasons of Dexter that he'd be done.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 31, 2017, 07:44:17 PM
After thinking about it, I want Danny dead. 

K'un-L'un is defenseless without the Iron Fist, maybe even destroyed already.  He worked long and hard to gain that power and then he just wanders off with it like a negligent idiot. 

There's an entire society whose fate rests upon recovery of their stolen power. 

If K'un-L'un is to ever be safe again, Danny the Thief has to die.   
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on April 03, 2017, 09:15:11 AM
Colony is picking up in its second season. I do like after 2 seasons we know very little about the aliens.

I recently binged all of it so far and I am deeply conflicted.

On one hand, I love it how it has the most realistic alien invasion scenario I have ever encountered. The setting is great and the plot is generally compelling.

On the other hand, the characters. Argh. They are sooooo generic. Hunk Beefsteak, the former marine (or ranger? Or both?), his ever loving Super Mommy wife whose whole existence is centered around protecting her children. And there are the extremely annoying children themselves, including the obligatory brooding and whiny teenager (why do so many shows have annoying teenagers/children in them? What demographics do they appeal to?). Plus there is the dark and mysterious former GI Joe, who has less qualms about massacring other resistance members and movements than about killing collaborators. On the other side, we have a bunch of neutral evil people in suits. Sometimes I feel that all the characters were put together by algorithms.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on April 05, 2017, 07:01:52 AM
Making History is gloriously dumb. 

It's so silly and weird, I can tolerate that the jokes don't always land and he plot doesn't always make sense.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 19, 2017, 02:42:37 PM
Finished Season 2 of Humans. The ending was a touch contrived. But Season 2 was a lot better than Season 1. William Hurt's character, though dead in Season 1, seems to really play no part in Season 2. I didn't notice any mention of him, even by his robot Odi.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on April 19, 2017, 05:18:43 PM
Finished Season 2 of Humans. The ending was a touch contrived. But Season 2 was a lot better than Season 1.

Agree with all this 100%
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 20, 2017, 03:07:48 AM
Westworld > Humans.

Humans was so bad it would be almost logically impossible for season 2 to be any worse
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 21, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
I liked the Swedish original but the BBC season 1 was pretty rocky. I was hoping they'd improve in season 2 and I think they did. I watched it after West World and I have to say it was still pretty okay. I'm quite fascinated by the idea (expressed in Ex Machina) that AI might regard us like we regard ants. Most of us expend much thought about killing an ant. Humans dealt with this notion somewhat.


Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Gerbig on April 21, 2017, 08:29:36 PM
"The Pickup Artist"

So bad its good tv show. Except wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy creepier.

A famous pickup artist trains 12 men to seduce women, and one gets eliminated per episode, winner gets to be his wingman or something.
Has all the obviously fake reality tv shit turned up to 11, and its full of so much cringiness over the advice the host is giving.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 22, 2017, 03:46:17 PM
I liked the Swedish original but the BBC season 1 was pretty rocky. I was hoping they'd improve in season 2 and I think they did. I watched it after West World and I have to say it was still pretty okay. I'm quite fascinated by the idea (expressed in Ex Machina) that AI might regard us like we regard ants. Most of us expend much thought about killing an ant. Humans dealt with this notion somewhat.

well maybe if ants had religion and an anti-vax movement we'd consider them more intelligent!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Johnny Slick on April 27, 2017, 01:51:12 PM
I've been watching How I Met Your Mother recently for some reason and... it's pretty much the epitome of a meh show, although it does have its moments and I think it might be getting a *bit* better now that I'm into season 3. A friend of mine from high school insists this is the best comedy EVAR but I'm not really seeing *that*.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 27, 2017, 02:58:23 PM
 
I've been watching How I Met Your Mother recently for some reason and... it's pretty much the epitome of a meh show, although it does have its moments and I think it might be getting a *bit* better now that I'm into season 3. A friend of mine from high school insists this is the best comedy EVAR but I'm not really seeing *that*.
I've had the same reaction but it's my best man that insists its a great show.  He even had a reference to it on his dating profile. :-\

Totally ok show though but I can generally find better things to do with my time.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on April 27, 2017, 10:10:22 PM
I tried watching it again recently. I nearly cringed myself inside out.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on April 28, 2017, 01:24:32 AM
I also hear Spongebob is good...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on April 28, 2017, 07:50:41 AM
Powerless is OK.  I think it would work better if they focus more on the silly office humor and less on the superhero stuff, but I guess the super hero stuff is the point.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on April 28, 2017, 09:14:56 AM
Finding Carter (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3186138/) is OK, sort of. I liked the premise of a teen finding out she's an abduction victim (i.e.: her mother is actually her abductor) and being forced to live with her real family, but they kind of fail to do anything really interesting with it, and it quickly devolves into kind of standard teen drama. Also I can't stand Caleb Ruminer's smug grin, which he wears at all times throughout the series.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on May 03, 2017, 08:59:24 AM
So. American Gods. Where to sort?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on May 03, 2017, 11:34:06 AM
You no like? I loved the first episode.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on May 03, 2017, 12:39:20 PM
have made it all the way up to ep 2 of Legion.

fuck that was a painful pilot.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 18, 2017, 01:38:00 PM
I'm watching the Canadian show, Wynona Earp.  Its a fun monster of the week sort of show.  Can't think too much while watching it though, the mythos of the show is pretty nonsensical. 

All the folks killed by Wyatt Earp are cursed to return to life as demons in the small town where Earp lived out the end of his life.  Earp's oldest descendant of the current generation gains super powers when they turn 27 and is the only person that can kill the demons and only with Earp's absurdly long barreled pistol.  There are 77 of these demons and their resurrected even if killed by an Earp. 

So even if you accept all that, its a really small town with 77 demons, some are serial killers but almost nobody in town notices.

Anyrate, its a pretty fun monster of the week show similar to Brimstone, Grimm, Angel/Buffy, etc. 

Edit to add, I should note that pretty much none of the Earp's "history" in the show is true.   
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 28, 2017, 08:56:38 AM
I figured out how to best describe Wynona Earp, a really dumb version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I watched a few episodes of an AMC series called, 'Into the Badlands.'  Its an American/Canadian attempt at live action anime, reminds me of "Fist of the North Star."  Pretty dumb but the acting is alright, lots of really pretty people and bad fantasy martial arts.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on May 28, 2017, 10:03:14 AM
Finished up season 2 of the magicians.  It had some brilliant moments, and I like how the stories compliment the books, but there were too many head scratching moments for this season to end of on the Very Best list. Solid season overall, I give it a B.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on June 21, 2017, 09:41:51 AM
Aquarius - 5/10 (on Netflix)

It's like Mad Men meets [Generic Cop Show] in that it's a period piece with a handful of point-of-view characters.  A ton of dead weight kills it, though.

If the show were just David Duchovney and Chance Kelly's wisecracking dirty cops and the Black Panthers, it'd be an 8/10.  These were thoroughly entertaining.

Charles Manson and the family in his orbit were half the show.  I just skipped all this, which really sped up marathoning both seasons. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on June 21, 2017, 09:53:38 AM
I love Dick

New York couple that could have bee a former professor and his student go to a Small town in Texas where the former Prof has a job at some fancy sorta grad program for artist run by an apparently former hot artist whose out of ideas.  Thoroughly meh.   Some good ideas, just doesn't work for me.

The women in the couple is immediately smitten with the artist that runs the place, dick played by Kevin Bacon.  Her husband is immediately smitten with the hot young student. 

Funny moments but mostly boring.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 22, 2017, 08:42:50 PM
The Leftovers
Im halfway through season 2 and finding it incredibly tedious. The episodes are too long, I dont really like any of the characters and with all the raving I heard about it before hand, it feels like one of the most overrated shows Ive seen in ages.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 23, 2017, 01:09:48 AM
The Leftovers
Im halfway through season 2 and finding it incredibly tedious. The episodes are too long,

'from the makers of Lost'


I don't think I madei t past season 1
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on June 23, 2017, 01:34:58 AM
The Leftovers
Im halfway through season 2 and finding it incredibly tedious. The episodes are too long, I dont really like any of the characters and with all the raving I heard about it before hand, it feels like one of the most overrated shows Ive seen in ages.

I stuck with it, mainly because a video podcast I enjoy did a weekly discussion on the show. It had too many boring episodes for my liking. When it was good, it was really good.
Not really worth it, but I will say the Finale episode was a good ending to the show and did give an answer (maybe) to where everyone went.

Season 3 was "ok" but even though most of it was set in my country, it didn't really feel like they were in "my" Australia. It was like some alternate Aus.

Don't read the spoiler about how they explain where the Departed went, if you intend watching the Finale
Spoiler
On our earth a small percentage (2%) of the population disappears.
In an alternate reality the people who disappeared on our earth are devastated when nearly everyone else (98%) disappears.
What ever event happened, it split the world into 2 different realities. With the departed of one world being Left in the alternate reality.

That is the explanation that is given, but we also don't know if the character, that tells us this, is telling the truth. She may be an 'Unreliable Narrator.'
I like the explanation given, as it gives it more poignancy and it also makes you wonder what a world left with only 2% of it's population would be like.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on June 26, 2017, 08:39:56 AM
I could not disagree more on The Leftovers. I loved each season. I liked the idea it wasn't a kind of end of the world thing where only a few survivors are left. It kind of went the other way. 10% of the population or something vanishes. Three seasons of really potent social commentary on how people and society dealt with it, notably how they dealt with pockets of seeming improbabilities that crop up in large numbers. A town where no one disappeared, for example, is treated as holy. People are fighting to get in.

My Not the Very Best. GLOW. I used to watch GLOW back in the day. There wasn't a lot on TV back then at 2 am. Three eps in and I think I laughed once. Some interesting ideas. The acting is a bit bad. Fascinated by a naked Trudy Campell.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 27, 2017, 07:43:26 AM
Watched The Leftovers finale
Spoiler
I fucking hated it. I feel so cheated.
The whole episode is about setting up the idea of unreliable narration and convenient lies to create doubt.
All I wanted was some sort of answer and even if her account is true then Im pissed at her decision to come back and to keep it all to herself.
I think her story is unlikely though because the scientist whobuilt the machine never fucking thought of building another before? Of being the originator of interdimensional travel? To fucking solve the biggest tragedy in human history?
Bleh.
And what about all the messiah shit?
[close]
If you want to watch a well acted, well directed, tightly scripted drama that unfolds scene by scene and dont actually care about resolution, then give it ago.
I thought each moment was great but overall Im quite angry at myself that I watched the whole thing.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 27, 2017, 07:52:21 AM
Watched The Leftovers finale
Spoiler
I fucking hated it. I feel so cheated.
[close]
from the makers of Lost :D
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on June 27, 2017, 10:09:45 AM
Watched The Leftovers finale
Spoiler
I fucking hated it. I feel so cheated.
[close]
from the makers of Lost :D
Yep.
I found that very off putting too.
 I specifically asked my friend who recommended it:
'Do we find out where they went?'
He told me we do.
The answer is...maybe?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on June 27, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
Watched The Leftovers finale
Spoiler
I fucking hated it. I feel so cheated.
[close]
from the makers of Lost :D
Yep.
I found that very off putting too.
 I specifically asked my friend who recommended it:
'Do we find out where they went?'
He told me we do.
The answer is...maybe?

That we got any answer, whether it's true or not, is amazing.

The writers said categorically that we would not get any resolution on what happened to the Departed.
One of the co-writers wrote the book it is based on and the book has no answers at all.

I think the way the finale was written (To be unreliable) was a compromise to those who need some sort of answer.
If you like the mystery, it was a lie. If you want an answer, then she was telling the truth.

I would still rate it as average (if not slightly below average) sci-fi/fantasy TV.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on June 28, 2017, 11:20:10 AM
The Leftovers is a bit like The Road. You're never told what the disaster was. That wasn't the point of the movie. The Canadian movie Last Night also used the end of the world without explaining it bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4OJrNvLRpI

You take it as read. Each explores what people do.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 29, 2017, 08:33:11 PM
I haven't seen much more than Voyager and one of the new movies, but I suspect avid fans who recognise all the things they're parodying might enjoy this more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9sKeCE8V0
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on June 30, 2017, 12:48:10 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it were more Star Trek-ey than J.J. Abrams recent video resumes for Star Wars.  >:(
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on June 30, 2017, 03:34:14 AM
started watching SG-U (Stargate Universe). pretty disappointing.

spaceships and spaceweapons make noises in space, and with the first alien they encounter they have no problem breathing the same atmosphere the alien ship uses
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on July 06, 2017, 08:23:22 PM
unReal

Not the best show ever, but it's incredibly binge-worthy. It's on Hulu. It's a scripted show created by Lifetime, and man is it dark. It's the fictional behind the scenes (not shot like a behind the scenes expose or anything, just a typical scripted drama) of a reality show that's basically The Bachelor. It revolves around the folks that manipulate the contestants. I've never watched The Bachelor but I've watched lots of other reality shows. Not sure if that's a prerequisite for watching this, but I really don't think it is.

Anyway, if you're looking for something fun to kill some time check it out.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on July 15, 2017, 07:23:55 PM
Finished Into The Badlands.
Dumb story and a slow first season. But the fight scenes....
Nostalgic bliss and a triumph of talent over budget.
Nick Frost elevates the second season very impressively!

You could watch the first and last episodes of season one (though I recommend skimming for the fights) and then watch season two complete.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on July 17, 2017, 09:28:17 AM
Finished Into The Badlands.
Dumb story and a slow first season. But the fight scenes....
Nostalgic bliss and a triumph of talent over budget.
Nick Frost elevates the second season very impressively!

You could watch the first and last episodes of season one (though I recommend skimming for the fights) and then watch season two complete.
Definitely liked what they're trying to do with that but, didn't seem quite successful to me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on July 17, 2017, 09:46:05 AM
I haven't seen much more than Voyager and one of the new movies, but I suspect avid fans who recognise all the things they're parodying might enjoy this more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9sKeCE8V0

This is an actual TV show. I thought it was a youtube parody. Oh dear.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on July 17, 2017, 09:47:20 AM
Black Sails. Based on an SGU mention recommendation, I'm tucking into this 4 season series. I'm on episode 4 season 1. Okay so far. Not a lot of actual action. Lot of milling about on land. Some boobs. Have a helluva time remember names.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on July 17, 2017, 09:56:59 AM
Black Sails. Based on an SGU mention recommendation, I'm tucking into this 4 season series. I'm on episode 4 season 1. Okay so far. Not a lot of actual action. Lot of milling about on land. Some boobs. Have a helluva time remember names.

Season 1 is really meh, but it picks up a LOT and becomes the best gay anarchist pirate show ever.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on July 17, 2017, 10:00:27 AM
I haven't seen much more than Voyager and one of the new movies, but I suspect avid fans who recognise all the things they're parodying might enjoy this more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9sKeCE8V0

This is an actual TV show. I thought it was a youtube parody. Oh dear.

Seth wants to make a show, they give him a show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on July 17, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
Black Books
I have a certain respect for a show not trying to reinvent the wheel by any stretch (it is shocking this was not produced in the 80s)  but totally nailing it.  Formulaic as fuck, but these formulas exist for a reason, they work when used effectively.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on July 18, 2017, 04:50:54 PM
I liked black books, though your criticisms are not without merit.

Love, netflix series from Judd Apatow.    Not funny but I think its meant to be.   The main female lead is a terrible person, the only reason the main male would be into her is because she's hot and the only reason she would be into him is if she thought he could somehow save her from her miserable self destructive life.
Quote
The series is presented as a "down-to-earth look at dating", exploring male and female perspectives on romantic relationships through the characters Mickey and Gus, played by Jacobs and Rust respectively.[4]
Not really.  The relationship might make sense if the characters were much younger than they are, then you could call it a "down to earth" look at dating. 

The show is terrible but quite well reviewed by critics.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on July 18, 2017, 04:54:20 PM
I liked black books, though your criticisms are not without merit.
I enjoy it.  It's well made sillyness.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on July 18, 2017, 05:50:47 PM
Yeah, Black Books was pretty good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 15, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
Comrade Detective
....
Presented by Channing Tatum and Jon Ronson (?) this is a fictional tv show from the 80s about a Romanian cop during the communist era dubbed by Tatumand others who seem recognisable from every hilariously bad dub you ever saw.
The show itself is played 100% and is about a tough detective with a penchant for chess and a disregard for the rules.
Of course the villains are indulgent American capitalists.

40min seems too long for this joke to be stretched over but Im interested to try episode 2 because this is just so nuts and oddly watchable.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: jt512 on August 16, 2017, 06:51:59 AM
Don't know if this series has been mentioned yet, but three episodes in, and Get Shorty is looking good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on August 16, 2017, 09:17:11 PM
Comrade Detective
....
Presented by Channing Tatum and Jon Ronson (?) this is a fictional tv show from the 80s about a Romanian cop during the communist era dubbed by Tatumand others who seem recognisable from every hilariously bad dub you ever saw.
The show itself is played 100% and is about a tough detective with a penchant for chess and a disregard for the rules.
Of course the villains are indulgent American capitalists.

40min seems too long for this joke to be stretched over but Im interested to try episode 2 because this is just so nuts and oddly watchable.

Is this anything like Garth Marenghi's Darkplace? Sounds a bit similar, and that series is awesome.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 17, 2017, 09:18:35 AM
Comrade Detective
....
Presented by Channing Tatum and Jon Ronson (?) this is a fictional tv show from the 80s about a Romanian cop during the communist era dubbed by Tatumand others who seem recognisable from every hilariously bad dub you ever saw.
The show itself is played 100% and is about a tough detective with a penchant for chess and a disregard for the rules.
Of course the villains are indulgent American capitalists.

40min seems too long for this joke to be stretched over but Im interested to try episode 2 because this is just so nuts and oddly watchable.

Is this anything like Garth Marenghi's Darkplace? Sounds a bit similar, and that series is awesome.
I actually compared it to that yesterday when describing to my friends.
Its FAR more subtle than Dark Place. Theres no big joke moments and you could be forgiven for thinking that its a real show.
Its a clever commentary on propaganda by showing the absurdity from the opposite side.
I didnt realise its actually written in english then translated and performed in Romanian by Romanian actors on location and only then is it actually dubbed.
The sheer balls of that makes it worth a look imo but dont go in expecting a laugh a minute.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 19, 2017, 03:23:27 PM
Marvel's The Defenders

Its pretty good. Check it out if you liked Daredevil and Jessica Jones but its not quite as strong as either.
The weakest link is still the casting mistakes we are stuck with from Iron Fist. Danny Rand is no less annoying and no smarter and another character from that series shows up and really does a bad job to be honest.
There are some really great actors in this like Rosario Dawson, the lady who plays Madam Gau etc, but they kind show up their co-stars and end up making the cracks show.

Theres some breaking of internal logic when you are trying to remember who can hurt who in the fight scenes and peoples powers seem to be set by the person who is in front of them. But welcome to comics!

The overall plot isnt great and the end is a bit anti climatic but its good overal and its well under 8hrs long.
I do honestly recommend it if you are at all interested in the marvel netflix shows.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on August 19, 2017, 04:47:01 PM
Marvel's The Defenders

Its pretty good. Check it out if you liked Daredevil and Jessica Jones but its not quite as strong as either.
The weakest link is still the casting mistakes we are stuck with from Iron Fist. Danny Rand is no less annoying and no smarter and another character from that series shows up and really does a bad job to be honest.
There are some really great actors in this like Rosario Dawson, the lady who plays Madam Gau etc, but they kind show up their co-stars and end up making the cracks show.

Theres some breaking of internal logic when you are trying to remember who can hurt who in the fight scenes and peoples powers seem to be set by the person who is in front of them. But welcome to comics!

The overall plot isnt great and the end is a bit anti climatic but its good overal and its well under 8hrs long.
I do honestly recommend it if you are at all interested in the marvel netflix shows.

Gearing up to watch it right now.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 24, 2017, 06:21:20 PM
Attack on Titan.
This show is just insane.  It follows the story of a world where humanity lives in a walled off city to protect itself from humanoid but mostly unintelligent creatures that are extremely large and powerful.  It features one of the best voice casts I've ever heard for a dubbed anime.  The voice acting is phenomenal, the story is gripping, the action sequences are heart pounding.   The monsters are truly disturbing and scary and the death scenes of which there are many, are some of the most brutal I've ever seen in any medium.  They are truly gutwrenching.  I also love that the characters are smart and brave and don't do overly dumb things.  (or at least they do dumb things that are understandable at the time).  the animation is also top notch.  The larger monsters really "feel" large and powerful and punches resonate with a sense of weight and mass. 

But the show's strength is also it's biggest flaw.  The battles get repetitive, and the characters can get confusing which other characters (which might be on purpose since these guys make the star-trek red-shirts look like Methuselah).  But the real problem is the intensity is just dialed so high and for so long that it gets tiring.  The show doesn't have many peaceful moments.  It would be nice for a throwaway episode once in a while where we just get character development (there are one or two of those but they could use more). 

I would give this a chance if you like anime, but honestly I'd recommend that everyone at least check out the first two episodes.  They are anime at close to its best.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on August 24, 2017, 09:14:57 PM
I only watched a couple episodes but I found the concept hilarious

Giant naked white people destroying an islanded-off city-state by smashing the place up and eating them like a bunch of empty-headed gluttons who don't care about the society they're ruining?

It feels like the id of an anxious, undersexed, xenophobic Japanese man channeled into a television program
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 24, 2017, 10:50:37 PM
I only watched a couple episodes but I found the concept hilarious

Giant naked white people destroying an islanded-off city-state by smashing the place up and eating them like a bunch of empty-headed gluttons who don't care about the society they're ruining?

It feels like the id of an anxious, undersexed, xenophobic Japanese man channeled into a television program

yeah, it's anime.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on August 24, 2017, 11:09:26 PM
Haha, I wouldn't go that far. 

Recent honorable mention: One-Punch Man

After watching Iron Fist, I found it to be the superior martial arts program.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 25, 2017, 09:51:18 AM
To be fair, Attack on titan is pretty heavy handed with its themes, but even having themes at all puts it ahead of most crap on TV.  There's commentary on class and social structure, and many characters have interesting inner conflicts.  They really love putting people in situations where it is ambiguous about whether to go with their gut or follow orders.  In an American show, the right answer would almost always be presented as going with your gut, but in this show, it's sometimes right and sometimes not.  I also really like how they are willing to show hollow victories, they make the tragedy of the situation much more apparent and make the losses much more crushing.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 25, 2017, 01:00:46 PM
A big problem I have with Attack on Titan is that it spun its wheels this last season to milk more time out of the story.
It made the pace too slow and doubled the amount of characters I dont give a shit about.

The action is still completely heart in mouth for me though because you just never know what will happen. Beats GoT and Walking Dead for "no one is safe".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on August 25, 2017, 08:34:22 PM
just saw on FB that The Tick is out
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5540054/episodes?ref_=tt_ov_epl

remember how there was that one pilot episode months back?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Henning on August 26, 2017, 12:34:06 PM
just saw on FB that The Tick is out
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5540054/episodes?ref_=tt_ov_epl

remember how there was that one pilot episode months back?

Have you watched it and think it belongs here, or are you just remembering the one pilot from a few months a year ago..?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 26, 2017, 01:30:58 PM
Im halfway through the season and I must say, its quite good.
Very much a Mystery Men sort of vibe. Theres an angle that separates it from previous versions in that it focuses more on Arthur and his struggle with reality and a past trauma.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on August 26, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
I have so much love for the previous versions, especially the cartoon and the comic book.  And the pilot left me so cold, that I have just held off.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 27, 2017, 04:49:22 PM
You cant really beat the cartoon for budgetary reasons alone.
But Ive finished all 6 episodes (the last six are coming in a few months apparently) and its worth watching.
They found a way to make the story compelling while building around a character who is basically the ultimate in lowest common denominator humour.

Its worth watching.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on September 04, 2017, 05:48:47 AM
Narcos Season 3 is a bit of a mixed bag so far.

The momentum is kinda gone, while the iffy politics and the hilarious beautification of every character are still there. Plus, I am really feeling some uncomfortable parallels with Arrested Development.

It is still solid, but definitely heading downhill.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 05, 2017, 08:30:20 AM
I'm okay with Narcos. I realized last year the Cali Cartel stuff would be less dramatic than Pablo Escobar. I liked the head of security. He's a really compelling character and worth watching.  I'm only about 3 eps in.

Not so sure about The Mist. The whole date rape aspect seems a bit over the top. Kind of wish they spent a couple more eps teasing the mist.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 06, 2017, 11:26:06 AM
Watched the first 3 Tick eps, pretty solid. I was not into the pilot, but it kind of makes more sense in retrospect now that I see where they are taking the story.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tofu on September 08, 2017, 08:09:14 AM
Black Sails. Based on an SGU mention recommendation, I'm tucking into this 4 season series. I'm on episode 4 season 1. Okay so far. Not a lot of actual action. Lot of milling about on land. Some boobs. Have a helluva time remember names.

Great. I was wondering what I should watch this weekend between sporting events.
I've also started with the new British series called Quacks. 4 episodes so far and quite entertaining, particularly if you like Brit humour.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 27, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
Crossing Lines

Its the international version of Criminal Minds, so it makes even less sense.  Instead of a Magical Girl they have a magical german that solves all of there cases in the last 10 minutes of the show and making all of the efforts up to that fairly pointless.  The characters and writing are very cliche'd misfit cops.  I'll likely keep watching. 

I just looked it up, its created by the same guy that created criminal minds.  Shocking.  It really is criminal minds but instead of serial killers its "transnational criminals".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Drunken Idaho on September 27, 2017, 11:18:39 AM
Attack on Titan.
This show is just insane.  It follows the story of a world where humanity lives in a walled off city to protect itself from humanoid but mostly unintelligent creatures that are extremely large and powerful.  It features one of the best voice casts I've ever heard for a dubbed anime.  The voice acting is phenomenal, the story is gripping, the action sequences are heart pounding.   The monsters are truly disturbing and scary and the death scenes of which there are many, are some of the most brutal I've ever seen in any medium.  They are truly gutwrenching.  I also love that the characters are smart and brave and don't do overly dumb things.  (or at least they do dumb things that are understandable at the time).  the animation is also top notch.  The larger monsters really "feel" large and powerful and punches resonate with a sense of weight and mass. 

But the show's strength is also it's biggest flaw.  The battles get repetitive, and the characters can get confusing which other characters (which might be on purpose since these guys make the star-trek red-shirts look like Methuselah).  But the real problem is the intensity is just dialed so high and for so long that it gets tiring.  The show doesn't have many peaceful moments.  It would be nice for a throwaway episode once in a while where we just get character development (there are one or two of those but they could use more). 

I would give this a chance if you like anime, but honestly I'd recommend that everyone at least check out the first two episodes.  They are anime at close to its best.

I liked it, though I can understand somebody putting it on this last.

On shows recently mentioned which I don't think belong here:

One Punch Man is on my list of "the very best TV shows.

The Tick I thought was pretty darned funny, and very well-executed. As much as I like Patrick Warburton, this series is better. I look forward to more.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on September 28, 2017, 09:27:22 AM
Black Sails. Based on an SGU mention recommendation, I'm tucking into this 4 season series. I'm on episode 4 season 1. Okay so far. Not a lot of actual action. Lot of milling about on land. Some boobs. Have a helluva time remember names.

Great. I was wondering what I should watch this weekend between sporting events.
I've also started with the new British series called Quacks. 4 episodes so far and quite entertaining, particularly if you like Brit humour.

I enjoyed it but the first season is bit shameless in the T&A. Season two it’s grows in scale. Towards the end of season one it starts getting better but takes a little while to get there.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on September 30, 2017, 06:05:19 PM
Inhumans-
Very bad. Not BvS bad, but average cheap 90s sci-fi show bad.
The 'heroes' are a royal family that rule a secret city of superpowered people on the moon. Every person gets subjected to a process to give them powers or not and they are then tiered and either allowed live in utter opulence and luxury with servants, or goes to work in the mines (there MAY be a middle class...)
So Ramsay Bolton overthrows this regime and sends the king and queen to Hawaii.
Theres some weird stuff with wise surfers helping a hoofed guy who...tries to swim? To find the body of his 'cousin' who drowned days ago. And then they agree to help him fight aliens.

Bad shows arent that odd. What is odd is that Marvel actually released the first two episodes in IMAX.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: aleks335 on October 01, 2017, 07:30:14 AM
Inhumans-
Very bad. Not BvS bad, but average cheap 90s sci-fi show bad.
The 'heroes' are a royal family that rule a secret city of superpowered people on the moon. Every person gets subjected to a process to give them powers or not and they are then tiered and either allowed live in utter opulence and luxury with servants, or goes to work in the mines (there MAY be a middle class...)
So Ramsay Bolton overthrows this regime and sends the king and queen to Hawaii.
Theres some weird stuff with wise surfers helping a hoofed guy who...tries to swim? To find the body of his 'cousin' who drowned days ago. And then they agree to help him fight aliens.

Bad shows arent that odd. What is odd is that Marvel actually released the first two episodes in IMAX.

I just saw the first episode. Bad writing, even the opening dialog is horrendously bad, poor storytelling, mostly bad acting. Visually like a decent B movie effort. On the whole, very, very bad. Like if you took Stargate SG-1 but without any interesting fantastic elements, without any chemistry in the cast, no humor, no charm and absolutely not a single likeable character to be found anywhere. (okay, maybe the gigantic dog, he looked kinda cozy)

Story was super confusing, I could never decide who I was cheering for. Any regime that gives the royal family actual power and has a "genetic council" that decides who gets to live in opulence and who has to work in the mines must be overthrown, immediately, and by any means necessary. So the audience is given no reason to side with the royals other than the fact that they are royalty. And that Ramsay Bolton seems just as bad and is super creepy to the females.

I found it surprisingly bad actually, considering that I still enjoy Agents of Shield (it's not HBO/Netflix good, but it is fun to watch), and thought Agent Carter was excellent.
That Marvel put their name on this turd is weird to me.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 09, 2017, 08:31:16 AM
Red Dwarf is back for season 12!
The quality is exactly as it was back in the day, for better or for worse.
I enjoyed seeing Lister jam with Hitler.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on October 15, 2017, 04:09:42 PM
Found "Bridget and Eamon" as well as "The Kitchen".   Both are very funny shows.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on October 16, 2017, 02:01:05 AM
oops wrong thread
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 18, 2017, 07:48:24 PM
Neo Yokio is really bad.
I didnt know what it was about before I watched but....
Its an anime where Jaden Smith plays a wealthy young gentleman in Neo Yokio, struggling with ennui and the indignity of his aunt forcing him to WORK so he can keep his membership to his gentlemans club.
Work consists of performing exorcisms, which he is bad at due to lack of interest.
Jude Law plays his transformer butler/jet pack.

Its shit and unfunny.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 25, 2017, 07:35:39 PM
Zapped is a charming british sitcom about a gormless office temp (Jay from The Inbetweeners) who gets transported to a fantasy realm of Mermaids, fairies and magic.
Its about the same comedic level as Red Dwarf.

https://youtu.be/Xia2VRoPb2I
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 29, 2017, 04:24:04 AM
The Handmaid's Tale

great premise, but some utterly terrible narration.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on October 29, 2017, 04:34:49 AM
The Handmaid's Tale

great premise, but some utterly terrible narration.

I don't remember there being any narration. There were a few brief voiceovers if I remember correctly, but no narration.

I guess if you really like narration then it makes sense you would think it was horrible.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: GodSlayer on October 29, 2017, 05:35:04 AM
The Handmaid's Tale

great premise, but some utterly terrible narration.

I don't remember there being any narration. There were a few brief voiceovers if I remember correctly, but no narration.

 ::)

Quote from: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/narration%20?s=t
voice-over, et al.

Quote from: http://www.springhurst.org/cinemagic/glossary_terms.htm#Voice-over
Voice-over
The narrator's voice when the narrator is not seen.

I'm watching it right now, and the narrator is visible these scenes where she's heard narrating, disqualifying it from this technical definition of voice-over.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on November 01, 2017, 02:37:55 PM
Sadly, I think I'm gonna have to put The Walking Dead in this list if it keeps going like this for the rest of the season. It was one of my favorites for about 6 years, but it's been going downhill for a while now. The increase in scale is not doing the show any favors. Nor is Negan. It's just so... meh. }|:o/
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 04, 2017, 08:33:04 AM
Im still watching the new MacGyver series and its still enjoyably dumb and schmaltzy.
It takes me about an hour to watch an episode because I have to keep pausing to google the science, which to me is really fun. I get to see a crazy spy story adventure and I tend to learn better through debunking.
I wish I had this version of the show as a kid but I still rewatch the older one.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 19, 2017, 04:19:38 PM
Just finished The Punisher on netflix.
Its pretty decent. Very violent and ugly. The dialogue and plot is very (needlessly) weak at certain points.
Maybe the most consistent of the Marvel netflix so far...?
Spoiler
Franks superpower seems to be attracting bullets in EVERY FIGHT and never getting any permenant consequences from it.
Sure. Thats the punisher, but it doesnt really fit with the realistic tone the show is going for when the protagonist is invincible.
The choice to make it all personal as opposed to driven by Franks inability to stop killing was a poor one in my opinion.
It makes him more of a hero and removes some of what makes the character compelling.
The 'bad' vet sub plot was ok. Good contrast. But Franks points about their differences are all untrue.
The gun debate is very poorly handled. Just clumsy and pointless. I felt like I was being preached to with the strawman gun control advocate.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on November 19, 2017, 04:58:40 PM
Just finished The Punisher on netflix.
Its pretty decent. Very violent and ugly. The dialogue and plot is very (needlessly) weak at certain points.
Maybe the most consistent of the Marvel netflix so far...?
Spoiler
Franks superpower seems to be attracting bullets in EVERY FIGHT and never getting any permenant consequences from it.
Sure. Thats the punisher, but it doesnt really fit with the realistic tone the show is going for when the protagonist is invincible.
The choice to make it all personal as opposed to driven by Franks inability to stop killing was a poor one in my opinion.
It makes him more of a hero and removes some of what makes the character compelling.
The 'bad' vet sub plot was ok. Good contrast. But Franks points about their differences are all untrue.
The gun debate is very poorly handled. Just clumsy and pointless. I felt like I was being preached to with the strawman gun control advocate.
[close]

Spoiler
I think that the next phase will feature Frank's bloodlust.  He was missing something at the start of the season, a drive and need to continue killing. This served to bridge the gap between his mission being over and picking up killing again.  Next, he will miss the killing, but not have the personal mission to drive it, bu will seek it out anyway.

That's what I hope, anyway.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 19, 2017, 05:18:47 PM
Just finished The Punisher on netflix.
Its pretty decent. Very violent and ugly. The dialogue and plot is very (needlessly) weak at certain points.
Maybe the most consistent of the Marvel netflix so far...?
Spoiler
Franks superpower seems to be attracting bullets in EVERY FIGHT and never getting any permenant consequences from it.
Sure. Thats the punisher, but it doesnt really fit with the realistic tone the show is going for when the protagonist is invincible.
The choice to make it all personal as opposed to driven by Franks inability to stop killing was a poor one in my opinion.
It makes him more of a hero and removes some of what makes the character compelling.
The 'bad' vet sub plot was ok. Good contrast. But Franks points about their differences are all untrue.
The gun debate is very poorly handled. Just clumsy and pointless. I felt like I was being preached to with the strawman gun control advocate.
[close]

Spoiler
I think that the next phase will feature Frank's bloodlust.  He was missing something at the start of the season, a drive and need to continue killing. This served to bridge the gap between his mission being over and picking up killing again.  Next, he will miss the killing, but not have the personal mission to drive it, bu will seek it out anyway.

That's what I hope, anyway.
[close]
Spoiler
I hope so too.
But Billy survived and now he is doing therapy.
It sounds like a ridiculous complaint but without those element, theres very little to seperate it from any run of the mill revenge fest.
Still enjoyed it though!
[close]
Edit- A huge gripe I forgot about-I hate the netflix editorial decision to have these shows exist in the MCU but to not reference it when it would make sense. It feels jarring.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on November 20, 2017, 08:52:15 AM
Finished the whole The Strain series. Goofy, some bad acting, irritating as fuck kid that makes you think The Walking Dead's Carl is an awesome character, a Swedish model/l33t hacker woman that is unbelievable, huge number of plot holes (just flick on some UV lights and those vampires are toast), etc. But something compelled me to finish it. a 6.8/10 for the whole series.

Final season seems to be a small nod to Trump winning the election. "I can't believe we lost" one of the characters intimates in the first ep of season 4.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on November 27, 2017, 06:25:44 AM
I binged through Godless on Netflix over the weekend.

At first glance, it is a gorgeous, if slow, Western with great acting and an interesting premise.

After a couple of subsequent glances, it turns out to be a gorgeous, if slow, Western with great acting that mostly ignores its interesting premise so that it can tell a generic Western story about generic Western gruff men doing generic Western gruff men stuff.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on November 27, 2017, 08:34:13 AM
I'm two eps into godless. I'm fascinated it uses the Mountain Meadows Massacre as a back story. So far they've not said "Mormons" but it will certainly help push this travesty into the public consciousness I hope. The plaque for the site is complete bullshit:

http://www.rickety.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Mountain_Meadows-Massacre_gravesite_memorial_dedication.jpg

"Hey, some people died here from a massacre. We're not saying who or how. But we're taking care of the site. Go, us!"

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on December 11, 2017, 09:51:14 AM
Just finished The Punisher on netflix.
Its pretty decent. Very violent and ugly. The dialogue and plot is very (needlessly) weak at certain points.
Maybe the most consistent of the Marvel netflix so far...?
Spoiler
Franks superpower seems to be attracting bullets in EVERY FIGHT and never getting any permenant consequences from it.
Sure. Thats the punisher, but it doesnt really fit with the realistic tone the show is going for when the protagonist is invincible.
The choice to make it all personal as opposed to driven by Franks inability to stop killing was a poor one in my opinion.
It makes him more of a hero and removes some of what makes the character compelling.
The 'bad' vet sub plot was ok. Good contrast. But Franks points about their differences are all untrue.
The gun debate is very poorly handled. Just clumsy and pointless. I felt like I was being preached to with the strawman gun control advocate.
[close]

We finished it this weekend. Still better than iron fist but not great. I agree with your assessment. I was never a huge punisher fan in that I never read just punisher comic's but he had so much cross over that I was aware of him. I may have liked the dolph lundgren movie better.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on December 31, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
watched the first 5 episodes of Big Mouth on Netflix.  It's sort of Freaks and Geeks by way of South Park.  It follows 13 year old friends as they experience life and growing up.  The first episode was a bit rough but I am a big fan of the talent behind the show so I kept going and found the show got better as it went along.  In particular, the voice acting is fantastic.  Something that really makes the show work, is that since it's animated, the characters can all be voiced by people well beyond adolescence, so they are able to deliver all their lines with a sort of wizened knowing wink.  It's hard to describe the show in a way that won't make it sound like crude trash, but there is a certain amount of sincere heart that makes it all come together.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 21, 2018, 01:55:08 PM
Just finished all 6 episodes of Amazons Jean Claude Van Johnson.
I highly recommend it if you like cheesy action films and satire of them.
JCVD plays himself making a straight to VOD movie in Bulgaria (a sexy martial arts version of Huckleberry Finn) while trying to reconnect with his ex (a hairdresser on set) and living a double life as a black ops operative codenamed "Johnson".
Its even more absurd than it sounds but it works more than it doesnt and JCVD once again shows that he has some depth as an actor.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 24, 2018, 08:41:44 AM
End of the Fucking World.

A British show about two teens who run away from home and things go badly for them.  Feels more American than British but for the accents.  Seems to take its style from low budget films of the 70s.  Good, not great.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 24, 2018, 10:41:46 AM
End of the Fucking World.

A British show about two teens who run away from home and things go badly for them.  Feels more American than British but for the accents.  Seems to take its style from low budget films of the 70s.  Good, not great.
Im 5 episodes in and have finally gotten interested in the story.
The start of it seemed like Dexter meets Adrian Mole.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on January 24, 2018, 12:12:01 PM
End of the Fucking World.

A British show about two teens who run away from home and things go badly for them.  Feels more American than British but for the accents.  Seems to take its style from low budget films of the 70s.  Good, not great.

I enjoyed this one. Kind of quirky in a darkish way.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 24, 2018, 12:16:38 PM
For those of you who have seen it, am I crazy for thinking it feels more like an American production than a British one?  The music was almost country and the various scenes of open road are probably why I got that impression. 

Dark and quirky sum up the gestalt of it pretty well, but not so dark it brings you down too much.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 24, 2018, 12:34:10 PM
Working through The Frozen Dead. Not a zombie show. A French police thriller. I'm about 3 eps in. Watch it subtitled.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on January 24, 2018, 10:04:05 PM
For those of you who have seen it, am I crazy for thinking it feels more like an American production than a British one?  The music was almost country and the various scenes of open road are probably why I got that impression. 

Dark and quirky sum up the gestalt of it pretty well, but not so dark it brings you down too much.

I haven't finished, I'm only like 3 or 4 in, but I agree it feels more American. Sort of like the American version of a British show. A BBC America production.. like the new Dirk Gently.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 25, 2018, 06:24:31 PM
Just finished it. The end is very disappointing. I feel like I wasted my time.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 25, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
might have to demote the magicians back to this thread if this season trend continues.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on January 25, 2018, 11:02:19 PM
might have to demote the magicians back to this thread if this season trend continues.

I heartily disagree.  This season is not like the others, but I am still finding it delightful.  And its kinda refreshing that they have toned down the none-so-black tone for this season.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 04, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
Godless was very entertaining for a few great episodes but it fell apart in the last episode.
It was too smug about how 'progressive' it was being to actually do nuts and bolts storytelling properly and was too in love with the coolness of one or two moments to think about basic common sense in the big action set piece.

The effort at telling a feminist story with some interesting people of colour in the mix was completely undercut by some seriously hack tropes, like every native american character knowing that this one character has 'lost his shadow'.
There are too many elements introduced and then dropped for there to be any satisfying pay off.

I was so hooked all the way through that this let down was very disappointing, but I feel like I would still recommend it to anyone looking for a western to chill with.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 14, 2018, 01:12:18 PM
Altered Carbon, Good Enough to scratch a dystpian itch.

Lots of moments where I thought to myself, "Wait, that doesn't make sense?"  Still kept me engaged though. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 14, 2018, 02:31:53 PM
Altered Carbon, Good Enough to scratch a dystopian itch.

It's only dystopian for the Grounders. For the Meths it's Utopia  ;)

I was quite impressed with it. When I first heard about them bringing the book to TV, I thought it had the potential to be a huge complicated mess.
But it was well done and movie quality CGI effects.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 14, 2018, 02:44:51 PM
I'm about half way through ep 2. It's okay so far. Very blade runner. Very very blade runner.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 14, 2018, 06:58:43 PM
I'm about half way through ep 2. It's okay so far. Very blade runner. Very very blade runner.
I found it very Blade Runner in a good way though?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on February 15, 2018, 08:54:25 AM
Never saw any of the blade runners but looking forward to Altered carbon.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 15, 2018, 09:39:30 AM
I'm about half way through ep 2. It's okay so far. Very blade runner. Very very blade runner.
I found it very Blade Runner in a good way though?

Oh yeah. I think they've created a blade runner world because that is just the most likely future of humanity. Instead of apologizing for it, they just take this as read. That's the world.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 15, 2018, 09:49:04 AM
I'm about half way through ep 2. It's okay so far. Very blade runner. Very very blade runner.
I found it very Blade Runner in a good way though?

Oh yeah. I think they've created a blade runner world because that is just the most likely future of humanity. Instead of apologizing for it, they just take this as read. That's the world.
It sounds like you think a Blade Runner like world is the most likely future, I find that unlikely. 

I think they made it a Blade Runner like world because of the rule of cool, that and Blade Runner really set the template for cyberpunk and technologic dystopian futures for the last 40 years. 

So for those of you who have seen it.  There are complaints on the internets regarding its misogyny and gratuitous sex and nudity.

I think there was a bit of unnecessary fan service but the complaints regarding misogyny seem misguided to me.  A bit like complaining that a movie about Ted Bundy was misogynist. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 15, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
Frozen Dead, french crime drama. Okay. The mystery seems to be revealed about 3/4 of the way through the series. And the ending was, to me, just dumb. Not a zombie series.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on February 15, 2018, 01:24:16 PM
man in the high castle. First season was OK, second season I just can't give any fucks about.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 15, 2018, 03:04:29 PM
There are complaints on the internets regarding its misogyny and gratuitous sex and nudity.

I think there was a bit of unnecessary fan service but the complaints regarding misogyny seem misguided to me.  A bit like complaining that a movie about Ted Bundy was misogynist.

The misogyny was part of the story line and fought against by the "good" guys/gals.
I think it was well balanced out by having 3 strong female characters kicking a lot of male ass.

Isn't all sex and nudity on TV and Film gratuitous? Not needed, but an added bonus if it is there.  ;) A few naked guys as well for those that are interested in that.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 15, 2018, 03:26:27 PM
Isn't all sex and nudity on TV and Film gratuitous? Not needed, but an added bonus if it is there.  ;) A few naked guys as well for those that are interested in that.
With rare exception and porn, yes. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 15, 2018, 05:24:53 PM
So I found the misogyny very spell breaking to be honest.
We are so far in the future but we have actually taken two steps back in terms of how women are viewed and treated? Why? How?

Also, we are a trans planetary species in this story but gangs are still divided up by current ethnicities? Weird.

And I guess in the future, latinx people still speak spanish at home and old women born hundreds of years from now still have the values and religiosity of my granny?

But weirdest of all- Smoking.

So yes, you can do some mental gymnastics to get past all of these issues but the story would flow so much better (imo) and elicit fewer complaints if they had just made some different choices.
The story would barely be impacted.

The complaint I hear alot and cant argue with is- We can imagine any world and any technology we like and bring it to life on screen. Why cant we imagine women being treated better?
And yes. I saw a dead male sex slave too. But the show has a definite preference.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 15, 2018, 06:04:38 PM
I think there are reasonable explanations for most of those issues but it definitely felt like it was based on a story written 40 years ago, I was surprised the book was only released in 2002. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 15, 2018, 06:11:35 PM
But are women in this future viewed and treated worse than they are now? We don't have enough information to say that.

The world that Takeshi is caught up in, is at the very fringes of this society. We see him with the elite and at the lowest end of society. Everyone in between seems normal.

We are supposed to be appalled at excesses that the Meths (Methuselahs) go to to fulfil their sick fantasies. The ordinary people of this world see them as perverted.
The sex clubs (and worse) are going to be aimed, mostly, at a male audience.

I do think shows like this, West World and Game of Thrones overdo the sex and nudity, and could tell the same story effectively without it. I don't mind either way.

I wasn't thinking of the dead male slave when I mentioned male nudity. There are several men walking around naked. Including the rich Meth who hired Tak.
Of course female nudity will be more prominently featured.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 16, 2018, 02:15:30 PM
If you listen to the conversation between the two VR techs and look at how the wealthy character treats his wife and the other women in his life, and we are led to believe this is pretty normal, then yeah. I would say its slightly worse than today.
Especially the very female focused snuff aspect. Why would sex clubs be explicitly more of a male domain than female? Why would it be mostly straight?
Again, there are explanations but it just begs so many questions that its worth discussing if you are into that kind of thing.
Definitely a wasted opportunity.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 16, 2018, 02:33:19 PM
If you listen to the conversation between the two VR techs and look at how the wealthy character treats his wife and the other women in his life, and we are led to believe this is pretty normal, then yeah. I would say its slightly worse than today.
Especially the very female focused snuff aspect. Why would sex clubs be explicitly more of a male domain than female? Why would it be mostly straight?
Why mostly straight?  Unless you think that in 300 years the ratio of mostly straight to other than mostly straight will dramatically change for some reason, that shouldn't be surprising.  IIRC, the best data is that roughly 90% of people are cis straight folks.  Aside from that, Kovacs was tracking the last movements of a straight white male sadist, the demographics of his prostitutes would seem pretty obvious.  We could have change the portion of prostitutes and victims that were male or gay but then the rich guy would have to have been female or gay, how would that go over? I also don't see much reason to think that the proportion of hookers catering to men to those catering to not men will be all that different than it is now or has been for most of history.  It might but it probably wouldn't be that noticeable a change.   The wealthy character also treated pretty much everyone poorly men, women, his own children. 


Quote
Again, there are explanations but it just begs so many questions that its worth discussing if you are into that kind of thing.
Definitely a wasted opportunity.



They totally glossed over how they managed FTL communications even though the subject came up a lot. Why were clones and artificial bodies so expensive relative to used bodies and synths?  Why weren't there lines of pre-manufactured clones of reasonable quality up for sail?  Not clones of your original body but just cheap clones of some former olympic athelete or supermodel?  Instead they need the body of convicts or personal clones.  Why were back ups of stacks so expensive?  You'd think most folks would back themselves up when they went to bed at night.  Why was there petty crime?  It would be super easy to replay living victims memories and go, yep that's the guy that robbed me.  No need for polygraphs, just voluntarily replay your memory.  As noted, why not virtual slums that were actually near paradise for the poor?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 16, 2018, 04:56:56 PM
Look, you can whatabout all you like with regard to other choices they could have made, but the fact is that its more often than not that when a future world is imagined, objectification of women for the male gaze is still a feature and very often, current ethnic stereotypes remain or people of colour are rather under represented.
These are talking points that some people wish were different in fiction that they otherwise enjoy and I dont think its a big deal to give that kind of critique. It doesnt invalidate the show, it doesnt need to change our enjoyment of it and its all fair game.
And yeah, absolutely, if someone wanted to discuss the wealth gap representation here then I actually think that would be interesting. To me, that is actually the central theme of the show though and its highlighting does more good than harm.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 16, 2018, 05:06:37 PM
I don't disagree with what you've just said, I'm just not convinced the criticism is merited in this case is all. 


Edit, definitely the wealth inequality was more central to the story.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 16, 2018, 07:23:46 PM
I'm not sure why this show ought to be exempt from such critique?
It doesnt harm the show itself but its a choice the writers made that could have been different with minimal plot impact.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 20, 2018, 08:51:33 AM
I'm not sure why this show ought to be exempt from such critique?
It doesnt harm the show itself but its a choice the writers made that could have been different with minimal plot impact.
I don't think it should be exempt, I do think if you changed a few of the gender specific things, it would have an impact on the plot and needed more explanation and in many cases made less sense. 

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on February 23, 2018, 11:47:55 AM
mozart in the jungle is still just a pleasantly enjoyable watch without too much thinking but not being too dumb either.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on March 20, 2018, 10:48:09 AM
I just binged Altered Carbon on Netflix.

It was quite all right, I suppose. Kind of a mix between Dollhouse, the Expanse and Blade Runner. It had some decent ideas and interesting premises, but somehow it wasn't all that great. Also it did not to that great a job at explaining some of its core concepts.

 Probably the generic angsty white male protagonist didn't help either. Athough, the next season will hopefully have an asian male protagonist (and a much better actor) through a rather smart racial bait and switch.

Also, there is a LOT of nudity.

Lastly, I was somewhat miffed that they hired Renée Elise Goldsberry and she doesn't sing at all.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on March 20, 2018, 11:20:08 AM
Longmire, murder mysteries set in Absoroka County Wyoming, America's Midsomer.  Its ok, I only compare it to Midsomer as they're both fiction rural counties with alarmingly high murder rates.   Longmire has a much more serious tone. 
Title: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on March 20, 2018, 11:56:20 AM
I spent a lot of time in the mountains where it was filmed. (NM). I liked the way they would get out of breath during a fight scene or foot chase.


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Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 26, 2018, 05:17:21 PM
Happy! - 7/10

It's a graphic novel-based show that looks like it retains the feel of the original work.

I'd recommend it to anyone that wants a combination of:The humor reminds me of Crank quite a bit, too, if any of you liked that.

Trailer:
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2LuRPtTPiY
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 26, 2018, 05:27:10 PM
Happy! - 7/10

It's a graphic novel-based show that looks like it retains the feel of the original.

I'd recommend it to anyone that wants a combination of:
  • Absurd
  • Pulp Noir
  • Dark Comedy
  • Degenerate Protagonist/Antagonist
  • Redemption Arcs
The humor reminds me of Crank quite a bit, too, if any of you liked that.

Trailer:
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2LuRPtTPiY
[close]
Crank is a great comparison.

I gave up two episodes before the end of this, I WAS enjoying it, but it got drawn out too long.

Spoiler
I would have prefered if the main character had not been related to the little girl.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 26, 2018, 05:55:58 PM
Agreed.  Plays well to theories he's actually in some kind of pre-afterlife sorting space, though, where you gain/lose karma depending on your conduct. 

But in general, I like reasonable pretexts.  It would've sat much better with me if he was simply picked because he's (a) gruff and highly capable and (b) sufficiently out of his mind to see him
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 26, 2018, 06:27:55 PM
Its better than the comic though!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on April 09, 2018, 12:57:55 PM
Been watching Troy: Fall of a City on Netflix

Another retelling of the Iliad which became famous when a bunch of wypipo started screaming about casting black people for different roles.

It looks all right, athe acting is OK, though the polt is quite plodding. Overally, a remarkably meh series. My biggest gripe is that it's disappointingly heteronormative. Maybe it will change later on (I am around halfway into it), but it just has no man on man action whatsoever, which is particularly  jarring for the story featuring the greatest gay power couple of ancient literature.

Edit: finished it. There was one romantic scene between Achilles and Patroclus, but even that got a woman involved fairly rapidly. Come on!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 04, 2018, 09:23:50 AM
Longmire, murder mysteries set in Absoroka County Wyoming, America's Midsomer.  Its ok, I only compare it to Midsomer as they're both fiction rural counties with alarmingly high murder rates.   Longmire has a much more serious tone. 
So, I'm near the end of this series.  The last season or too suck because all the characters have become dumbass versions of what they started out as.  Except for the chief of police on the reservation.  He and the fat put upon deputy are the only sympathetic characters left. 

I only keep watching because we're almost done.  It sad how often that happens to me. 

Edit, finally finished, the last episode sucked.  It was a regular length episode with 20 minutes tacked on to the end just to let you know that if it had continued, it would have jumped the shark in every possible way.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on May 05, 2018, 06:30:22 PM
The Rain. Danish series just released on Netflix about a world it which the rain suddenly becomes deadly when you get wet (mostly - see spoiler tag for more on this strange plot point).

The trailer looked awesome and there was some hype about this show. It's kind of fun but the insane number of plot holes and incredibly stupid characters constantly doing the literal dumbest thing in any given scenario make the show incredibly hard to watch. I'm on episode 3 and I'll keep watching just because I've got nothing better to do right now and the episodes are like 35 minutes long.

Not really a spoiler but I'll put the 2 plot points that drive me the most crazy:
Spoiler
1. If your foot gets wet from a puddle you're dead, but you can walk around in the woods without any special clothes and touch trees and the ground without an issue, it seems to be only your feet and puddles so far.
2. For a group of people who are constantly starving (to the point where one person almost dies from malnutrition or something), they are incredibly bad at rationing food. Like they just don't do it and never discuss it and just cram their faces with food every time they see it and don't seem to save much if any for later.
[close]


Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on November 19, 2018, 05:26:43 AM
Narcos: Mexico just doesn't work all that well.

The characters feel flat and uninteresting. Diego Luna remains completely unimpressive (like he was in Rogue One), playing Félix Gallardo as a passive, almost submissive bore (his one scene with Wagner Moura was a big mistake, it just highlights how much the series has fallen).  Michael Peña, who is a decent actor, is also not interesting as a one-dimensional, always upset Kiki Camarena. The rest of the characters are even less developed and hardly interesting. There is hardly any space for any female characters who pop in an out without much consequence.

The series still continues its highly problematic depiction of the drug wars, with heroic American police solving the problems of the backwards, inept and corrupt Latin-Americans, but only when they can finally start breaking the rules. The role the US Government played is still downplayed.

All in all, rather disappointing, but still a moderately enjoyable watch.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on January 18, 2019, 02:19:51 PM
I'm not a comic book fan. I have no idea the difference between DC/Marvel. I liked the Xmen. I liked Batman vs Superman. I never read The Watchmen but I saw the movie a number of times and liked it. That said, I've seen 1 1/2 eps of Titans. I kind of like it so far. It remind me of The Watchmen, in a way. I like, as a premise, Robin is estranged from Batman. They didn't see eye to eye on something and he's set up shop in Detroit (Toronto seems to their filming location).

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 18, 2019, 02:52:35 PM
The "Last Kingdom" on Netflix.  Its fun, a little stupid, most of the conflict exists because the main  character is a poster child for a Gillete ad.*  The do a pretty good job of making everyone look pretty dirty.  They are all way to good looking and have all their teeth though.



*The one about toxic masculinity. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 20, 2019, 11:45:33 AM
Nicole Byers' show on netflix is dumb, but it makes me laugh
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on January 21, 2019, 09:19:51 AM
Nicole Byers' show on netflix is dumb, but it makes me laugh
Is that "Nailed It"?  If so, I pretty much agree.  Its the sort of thing I'm glad exists but I'm not really motivated to watch more than on episode.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 21, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
oh man did i make an egregious typo
I meant this show

https://www.facebook.com/looselyexactlynicole/

this is very different but also funny
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 21, 2019, 05:59:01 PM
Im at the back end of Netflix The Punisher season 2.

Its honestly not great. Frank still cant seem to make it through any fight without getting beaten half to death or getting shot at least once.
The interpersonal drama shite is cranked up from the last season and is just as tedious.
More over though, we are expected to invest in Franks development and redemption when
Spoiler
He detains a young woman against her will to 'protect' her and then proceeds to emotionally and physically abuse her when he gets angry.
[close]
Non of the characters are making decisions that make any kind of sense.
Jigsaw is supposed to be a hideously scarred monster but here has some sexy hollywood scars that he never shuts up about.
The last straw is Franks utter inability to plan ahead and think through basically any situation. He shows up to one confrontation, knowing he will be facing multiple very tough guys and just....forgets(?) to bring a gun?

Ugh. I just want to get through this.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 28, 2019, 10:50:17 AM
I watched Gillian Andersons new netflix thing Sex Education.
I found it infuriating.
Schools in the UK are very different to the US. But this show tries to make this an American show but with British accents for some reason.
The dialogue and word choices are American. The style of classes, the way the kids eat lunch, the fact that they dont wear uniforms... its all just trying so hard to be a US teen comedy and its grating.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on January 28, 2019, 10:55:33 AM
I watched Gillian Andersons new netflix thing Sex Education.
I found it infuriating.
Schools in the UK are very different to the US. But this show tries to make this an American show but with British accents for some reason.
The dialogue and word choices are American. The style of classes, the way the kids eat lunch, the fact that they dont wear uniforms... its all just trying so hard to be a US teen comedy and its grating.

I've read some reviews and as much as I love Anderson I don't think i can bring myself to watch this.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on January 28, 2019, 10:58:45 AM
I watched Gillian Andersons new netflix thing Sex Education.
I found it infuriating.
Schools in the UK are very different to the US. But this show tries to make this an American show but with British accents for some reason.
The dialogue and word choices are American. The style of classes, the way the kids eat lunch, the fact that they dont wear uniforms... its all just trying so hard to be a US teen comedy and its grating.

It didn’t seem American at all to me.

Everyone was way to polite.

I thought it was an interesting perspective on British education and culture.


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Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 28, 2019, 03:15:51 PM
I watched Gillian Andersons new netflix thing Sex Education.
I found it infuriating.
Schools in the UK are very different to the US. But this show tries to make this an American show but with British accents for some reason.
The dialogue and word choices are American. The style of classes, the way the kids eat lunch, the fact that they dont wear uniforms... its all just trying so hard to be a US teen comedy and its grating.

It didn’t seem American at all to me.

Everyone was way to polite.

I thought it was an interesting perspective on British education and culture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Welp.
Having lived in Britain and grown up on British tv, I can say the only 'British' thing about it is the accents.
It isnt any sort of perspective on British education because the showrunners have admitted they based it on John Hughes.
Check out the Inbetweeners though for a much more accurate depiction of how brits often experience school.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: xenu on February 16, 2019, 05:24:55 PM
My wife has been watching criminal mind. God that is a horrible tv show. She even makes fun of it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on February 17, 2019, 09:46:06 AM
the masked singer is totally silly fun.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 18, 2019, 09:42:26 AM
My wife has been watching criminal mind. God that is a horrible tv show. She even makes fun of it.
Fucking terrible, my wife and I have watched every season though.  Every case is solved by the "hacker" violating numerous constitutional amendments and laws with her hacking magic skills.

I'm pretty sure every character has been kidnapped and tortured by a serial killer multiple times. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: xenu on February 18, 2019, 11:25:45 AM
My wife has been watching criminal mind. God that is a horrible tv show. She even makes fun of it.
Fucking terrible, my wife and I have watched every season though.  Every case is solved by the "hacker" violating numerous constitutional amendments and laws with her hacking magic skills.

I'm pretty sure every character has been kidnapped and tortured by a serial killer multiple times.

It's like watching a car crash. You know it's coming but you can't turn away.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on February 18, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
I was going to write that i have no idea why we need so many police procedurals and then remembered how many shows i watch about superhumans beating people up.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on February 22, 2019, 03:58:21 AM
Black Sails

It was off to a good start, and then quickly slowed down. The first maybe 4 episodes dragged, and I could see people giving up on the show at this stage. Past that point and through all of season 3, it was pretty good. Except one episode, which was slow and that was basically the point of it, but I could easily skip it on a rewatch.

Season 4 episode 1 was the first episode where I found myself questioning the writers. So yet again they were going to turn the situation around, which they'd managed to do several times before, but this time it just didn't make sense. I didn't see why the characters would react or not react as they did, and the overall story loses its grip on me.

The same happens in season 4 episode 3, but more so. Maybe what happened in the episode should've happened, had to happen because of how they were relying on history, but how they got to that point took me out of the show.

For the rest of the season I wasn't that into the show anymore, it was more about watching the story through. It was worth watching, but they also managed to have me not wanting more once it was over.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Paul Blevins Jr. on February 22, 2019, 02:52:40 PM
Black Sails gets soooo much better as it goes along. I loved it. I rank it as one of my top ten favorite TV series of all time. I was totally sick of pirates after the (seemingly) fifty Johnny Depp crap movies. But this series made 'em cool again. I would love to have seen a spin-off series on Captain Jack and Bonnie, my two favorite characters...but then I recall what their real world fates were and think maybe not.   
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on February 22, 2019, 03:33:26 PM
It spins me out because I saw Jessica Parker Kennedy play a naive teenager on the Flash.  She is NOT that character on Black Sails.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 22, 2019, 05:48:45 PM
I hated Black Sails. All of the intrigue seemed forced and the whispery tough guy shit really wore on my nerves.
I promised a friend I would watch the first season and tried the second one because he insisted thats where it "gets good".
Life is just too short.
I am surprised its not more popular though as it seems of high quality, just not for me.

I did notice with some amusement though, a scene where that dude with the abs is smoking opium and you can see the make up contouring his abs is really badly done in that one shot.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on February 25, 2019, 03:17:29 AM
I hated Black Sails. All of the intrigue seemed forced and the whispery tough guy shit really wore on my nerves.
I promised a friend I would watch the first season and tried the second one because he insisted thats where it "gets good".
Life is just too short.
I am surprised its not more popular though as it seems of high quality, just not for me.

I did notice with some amusement though, a scene where that dude with the abs is smoking opium and you can see the make up contouring his abs is really badly done in that one shot.

The first season of Black Sails is a horrible slog, but it truly gets better and by the end, becomes the best queer anarchist revolutionary pirate show that was ever made. I can't recall any other mainstream show with such a strong anti-imperialist and anarchist message.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on February 25, 2019, 08:16:49 AM
....the best queer anarchist revolutionary pirate show that was ever made...

What are your top five queer anarchist revolutionary pirate shows?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on February 25, 2019, 09:39:35 AM
It spins me out because I saw Jessica Parker Kennedy play a naive teenager on the Flash.  She is NOT that character on Black Sails.

IMDB tells me that this person is one year younger than me.
That is too old to play a naive teenager on the flash.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on February 25, 2019, 10:09:23 AM
The first season of Black Sails is a horrible slog, but it truly gets better and by the end, becomes the best queer anarchist revolutionary pirate show that was ever made. I can't recall any other mainstream show with such a strong anti-imperialist and anarchist message.

My main take from the show was that they're all terrible people, or people fighting for terrible leaders and causes. Making a case for why piracy wouldn't be that big of a leap.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on February 25, 2019, 10:22:15 AM
The first season of Black Sails is a horrible slog, but it truly gets better and by the end, becomes the best queer anarchist revolutionary pirate show that was ever made. I can't recall any other mainstream show with such a strong anti-imperialist and anarchist message.

My main take from the show was that they're all terrible people, or people fighting for terrible leaders and causes. Making a case for why piracy wouldn't be that big of a leap.

My main take was that capitalist imperialism destroys everything and everyone, and makes monsters out of people just because it exists. It is too strong so fighitng it is futile, but at least you can give it an honest try. Plus, lots and lots of amazing, murderous gays.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on February 25, 2019, 10:54:35 AM
It spins me out because I saw Jessica Parker Kennedy play a naive teenager on the Flash.  She is NOT that character on Black Sails.

IMDB tells me that this person is one year younger than me.
That is too old to play a naive teenager on the flash.

I know, but she sells it.  Sells both roles really.  That is part of what gave me whiplash.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on February 25, 2019, 11:51:28 AM
....the best queer anarchist revolutionary pirate show that was ever made...

What are your top five queer anarchist revolutionary pirate shows?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tgRceiwpNZHhK/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on March 26, 2019, 08:42:58 PM
Pleasantly surprised by the quality of the originals on the new DC Universe streaming service.  None of them are great but so far I have been pretty entertained by Titans, Young Justice, and Doom Patrol.  Plus Lois and Clark!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on March 27, 2019, 08:34:36 AM
So OA season 2 is now available. I'm scared. Scared to look.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on March 27, 2019, 02:53:28 PM
So OA season 2 is now available. I'm scared. Scared to look.

It was good with a few WTF moments. Like the Octopus scene  ???

Not as good as season 1. It isn't a great show, but it is fun. If not a bit silly at times.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on March 31, 2019, 05:14:40 PM
I think I'll put Strike Back (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1492179/reviews?ref_=tt_urv) here. It's a British spy/covert ops action thriller. I'm not as thrilled about it as some of the fans, but it has definite solid entertainment value. In the same vein as 24 and Homeland (though without much of the character drama of the latter). One enthusiastic IMDB poster called it "an adult version of the G.I. Joe cartoon from the 80s but in real life". I'm watching season 4 right now. Supposedly it goes downhill with season 6, when they went for a reboot.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on April 01, 2019, 06:59:17 AM
Could never get into Strike Back but it seems to scratch alot of peoples itches.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 01, 2019, 09:34:35 AM
Agents of Shield, Season Five.  Its ok, distracting enough while I work out.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: xenu on April 01, 2019, 12:09:55 PM
Agents of Shield, Season Five.  Its ok, distracting enough while I work out.

I stopped watching after the first year. I couldn't deal with it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on April 01, 2019, 01:47:11 PM
Agents of Shield, Season Five.  Its ok, distracting enough while I work out.

I stopped watching after the first year. I couldn't deal with it.

It's worth keeping with after the first season, but far form the best show ever.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on April 01, 2019, 02:06:42 PM
We need another thread.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on April 03, 2019, 07:48:39 PM
They're crossing the streams...

Ghost Adventures
Devil in the City of Angels. Zak and the crew head to Los Angeles to investigate the disturbing energy that permeates a former Scientology lab. (TVPG) (N) Friday, 9 p.m. Travel
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on April 06, 2019, 08:16:13 PM
Could never get into Strike Back but it seems to scratch alot of peoples itches.

Seasons 2-5 are actually pretty good in the action and tension department. Very testosterone heavy though. They run around with a small bit of magic bullet armor, spouting one-liners, blowing shit up and shooting terrorists and covert agents, and then typically proceed to mate in equally spectacular fashion. And there's some intrigue. It's not always brilliant, but it's certainly entertaining in an 80s action movie or 24 kind of way.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on April 07, 2019, 08:07:57 AM
Could never get into Strike Back but it seems to scratch alot of peoples itches.

Seasons 2-5 are actually pretty good in the action and tension department. Very testosterone heavy though. They run around with a small bit of magic bullet armor, spouting one-liners, blowing shit up and shooting terrorists and covert agents, and then typically proceed to mate in equally spectacular fashion. And there's some intrigue. It's not always brilliant, but it's certainly entertaining in an 80s action movie or 24 kind of way.
Yeah, its weird, those things are really in my wheelhouse so I have no idea why I didnt connect with it.
Might give it another go.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on April 12, 2019, 08:49:56 AM
OA Season 1 left me with mixed feelings. It was like "if season 2 rocks it, season 1 will be a genius set up but if season 2 sucks, season 1 was an equal waste." I've never seen a TV show that really required me to watch the second season for me to make my feelings about the previous season concrete. That said, I'm 2 eps into season 2. I'm enjoying it so far although it's starting to point in a kind of VR cyber crime thriller. If I recall Season 1 left us with the question of whether or not OA was just a BS artist who made everything up based on the book names on her shelf. Season 2 doesn't really much address that. We're just kinda "yep, no, she wasn't shittin' those poor high school kids".
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on April 12, 2019, 08:59:35 AM
OA Season 1 left me with mixed feelings. It was like "if season 2 rocks it, season 1 will be a genius set up but if season 2 sucks, season 1 was an equal waste." I've never seen a TV show that really required me to watch the second season for me to make my feelings about the previous season concrete. That said, I'm 2 eps into season 2. I'm enjoying it so far although it's starting to point in a kind of VR cyber crime thriller. If I recall Season 1 left us with the question of whether or not OA was just a BS artist who made everything up based on the book names on her shelf. Season 2 doesn't really much address that. We're just kinda "yep, no, she wasn't shittin' those poor high school kids".

They'll address it but you won't feel any better about the show in general.

It's worth watching but it definitely belongs on the "Not the very best" list.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on April 12, 2019, 10:10:13 AM
enjoying season two of amazon's tick series.  I think they improved some of the tone issues in season 1.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on April 12, 2019, 10:30:24 AM
enjoying season two of amazon's tick series.  I think they improved some of the tone issues in season 1.
I agree.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: xenu on April 12, 2019, 01:31:17 PM
Posted this in the wrong thread. I posted it in the right one
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: moj on April 12, 2019, 01:46:57 PM
OA Season 1 left me with mixed feelings. It was like "if season 2 rocks it, season 1 will be a genius set up but if season 2 sucks, season 1 was an equal waste." I've never seen a TV show that really required me to watch the second season for me to make my feelings about the previous season concrete. That said, I'm 2 eps into season 2. I'm enjoying it so far although it's starting to point in a kind of VR cyber crime thriller. If I recall Season 1 left us with the question of whether or not OA was just a BS artist who made everything up based on the book names on her shelf. Season 2 doesn't really much address that. We're just kinda "yep, no, she wasn't shittin' those poor high school kids".

They'll address it but you won't feel any better about the show in general.

It's worth watching but it definitely belongs on the "Not the very best" list.

Agreed, worth watching season 2 if you saw season 1, but also worthy of being on the not the very best list. Not sure if I'll watch season 3 if they make one.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on April 12, 2019, 05:29:21 PM
OA Season 1 left me with mixed feelings. It was like "if season 2 rocks it, season 1 will be a genius set up but if season 2 sucks, season 1 was an equal waste." I've never seen a TV show that really required me to watch the second season for me to make my feelings about the previous season concrete. That said, I'm 2 eps into season 2. I'm enjoying it so far although it's starting to point in a kind of VR cyber crime thriller. If I recall Season 1 left us with the question of whether or not OA was just a BS artist who made everything up based on the book names on her shelf. Season 2 doesn't really much address that. We're just kinda "yep, no, she wasn't shittin' those poor high school kids".

They'll address it but you won't feel any better about the show in general.

It's worth watching but it definitely belongs on the "Not the very best" list.

Agreed, worth watching season 2 if you saw season 1, but also worthy of being on the not the very best list. Not sure if I'll watch season 3 if they make one.

Yeah, can't disagree. Worth watching, but not essential viewing.

Spoiler for last Episode of Season 2
It does get very Meta at the end and I am intrigued enough to want to see Season 3, to see if they continue the "characters in the bodies of the real life actors who star in the OA TV show" storyline. (/spoiler]
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on May 06, 2019, 12:40:55 PM
enjoying season two of amazon's tick series.  I think they improved some of the tone issues in season 1.

finished the season.  It was not as ambitious as S1 but more consistently good.  It really felt like a comic book come to life, for better or worse. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on May 06, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on May 06, 2019, 06:05:44 PM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on May 06, 2019, 06:19:53 PM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.

I appreciated the effort, but it came off as more weird than silly, if you follow me.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on May 06, 2019, 06:35:04 PM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

The cartoon was so great.  Most Ticky of the non-comic Ticks

Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.

I appreciated the effort, but it came off as more weird than silly, if you follow me.

Ya - Doom Patrol has got that covered for now.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on May 07, 2019, 09:06:41 AM
I like the tick, both seasons but then I've like pretty much every version of the tick. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Morvis13 on May 07, 2019, 10:46:31 AM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

The cartoon was so great.  Most Ticky of the non-comic Ticks

Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.

I appreciated the effort, but it came off as more weird than silly, if you follow me.

Ya - Doom Patrol has got that covered for now.

not sure if i like Doom Patrol or not.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on May 07, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

The cartoon was so great.  Most Ticky of the non-comic Ticks

Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.

I appreciated the effort, but it came off as more weird than silly, if you follow me.

Ya - Doom Patrol has got that covered for now.

not sure if i like Doom Patrol or not.
I found it to be trying too hard.

Which I find to be true of all Grant Morrison derived properties.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on May 07, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

The cartoon was so great.  Most Ticky of the non-comic Ticks

Every incarnation of The Tick is less silly than the one before, back to the B&W comics.  I prefer silly Tick.

There was definitely an effort to make S2 sillier than S1.  a big chunk of plot revolves around singing baby lobsters.

I appreciated the effort, but it came off as more weird than silly, if you follow me.

Ya - Doom Patrol has got that covered for now.

not sure if i like Doom Patrol or not.
I found it to be trying too hard.

Which I find to be true of all Grant Morrison derived properties.

I was paying for DC for a bit and i liked all their shows but not enough to keep paying.  I am going to wait for the second half of young justice to be released, then I will resubscribe and binge on them (plus i will be on summer break then)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: jt512 on May 09, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
Tuca and Bertie - 0/10


New animated series by one of the producers of Bojack Horseman.  Unwatchable.  Gave up 15 excruciating minutes into the first episode.


Posted in this thread as a public service.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on August 01, 2019, 09:53:46 AM
Outlander 4.5/10 but my wife seems to like it.

A historical romance in which a nurse from the 1940s travels back in time to 1740s Scotland. 

It would probably be ok but for the incessant voice over.  It's probably a hold over from the books but on TV its either insulting the audience or lazy writing. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on August 01, 2019, 10:32:18 AM
Outlander 4.5/10 but my wife seems to like it.

A historical romance in which a nurse from the 1940s travels back in time to 1740s Scotland. 

It would probably be ok but for the incessant voice over.  It's probably a hold over from the books but on TV its either insulting the audience or lazy writing.

OoohtLander
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on August 01, 2019, 12:36:31 PM
I have some friends who love Outlander but I couldn't get past an episode or two. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on August 01, 2019, 12:57:02 PM
I genuinely enjoyed Outlander until season 3, but then diminishing returns hit quite hard.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Boßel on August 01, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
Wrong thread
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on August 11, 2019, 08:17:20 AM
Wu Assassins
Not going to rate it yet as Im only on the third ep and not sure if I will bother finishing it.
Its a martial arts 'chosen one' story set in modern San Francisco that focuses on the build up to a gang war between triads and russians while a mild mannered chef is experiencing some sort of magical transformation into an ancient monk assassin or something.
I LOVE hong kong cinema and wushu on screen, but this series takes itself FAR too seriously and tries too hard to be gritty. The lead actor (the dude from The Raid) is quite bad tbh and while the gang war story line is given loads of air to breath and we see the history of all the characters involved, the supernatural side of it is just thrown in with a strange girl showing up out of nowhere with massive exposition dumps for the main character with NO context whatsoever.
Aside from that, even the fights are contrived, with groups of 90s style punks just showing up being dickheads whenever an action beat is needed and no real consequences for anything.
Bad writing can be really fun but not when it takes itself this seriously.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: swan on August 14, 2019, 07:27:28 PM
At first glance Twelve Forever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Forever) looks like any other cartoon about growing up: Twelve-year old Regina Abbot hates her lame hometown and "stuck-up" classmates, then discovers a magical world where she's powerful, yada yada… So definitely qualifies as "not the very best."

However after catching a few episodes with friends I was surprised at how the writers don't sugarcoat Reggie's significant behavioral problems: Quite often she is the bad guy but just can't see it that way, so even though each episode usually has a resolution when she's forced to acknowledge her mistakes, the tension keeps building anyway. So kudos to them for not glorifying "wackiness" when it's just selfish behavior that's causing harm.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on August 15, 2019, 12:57:35 PM
Has anyone watched Another Life on Netflix? Sci-fi show starring Starbuck. I haven't yet. It has terrible reviews on IMDb. Id love for someone to tell me it's worth watching just to have another sci-fi show to binge but not unless someone can tell me it's worth the time.
 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ishmael on August 20, 2019, 08:12:06 AM
Has anyone watched Another Life on Netflix? Sci-fi show starring Starbuck. I haven't yet. It has terrible reviews on IMDb. Id love for someone to tell me it's worth watching just to have another sci-fi show to binge but not unless someone can tell me it's worth the time.
Is that the one where they have an untold number of people in deep freeze, so that if any actor demands a raise character gets killed, all they have to do is defrost a replacement?  Not a great way get the audience emotionally attached to any particular character, is it?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on September 02, 2019, 05:39:50 PM
Better Than Us - Russian show about a near future with robots. The show revolving around a company that makes robots and a robot that starts to break Asimov's laws. It's also a sort of family drama.

It doesn't belong on the "Very Best" list but it's actually a really fun watch. I'm 3 episodes in. It's the first time Netflix has pushed a Russian TV show on me (not sure if there have been any other Russian produced Netflix shows). I'm dating someone who was born in Russia and I've been learning Russian so I'm watching it in original with subtitles.

My girlfriend says the main actors in the show are both B-list in Russia, but I think the acting has been pretty good so far. What I like most is the future technology. It's all really common sense stuff that I could see being developed in the next 5-10 years. Stuff like wristwatch projections on arms instead of smart phones (including AR games that kids play that utilize the projections), screens on different surfaces and how they're manipulated seems natural, light barriers in roadways to indicate when to stop at an intersection.. there's a ton of small tech details that make me go "that's a really good idea".

Worth a watch. I watched the English dubbing and it wasn't too bad either.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 03, 2019, 11:15:27 AM
At first glance Twelve Forever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Forever) looks like any other cartoon about growing up: Twelve-year old Regina Abbot hates her lame hometown and "stuck-up" classmates, then discovers a magical world where she's powerful, yada yada… So definitely qualifies as "not the very best."

However after catching a few episodes with friends I was surprised at how the writers don't sugarcoat Reggie's significant behavioral problems: Quite often she is the bad guy but just can't see it that way, so even though each episode usually has a resolution when she's forced to acknowledge her mistakes, the tension keeps building anyway. So kudos to them for not glorifying "wackiness" when it's just selfish behavior that's causing harm.

gave it a shot and it was interesting but too ADD for me. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on September 03, 2019, 11:58:52 AM
At first glance Twelve Forever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Forever) looks like any other cartoon about growing up: Twelve-year old Regina Abbot hates her lame hometown and "stuck-up" classmates, then discovers a magical world where she's powerful, yada yada… So definitely qualifies as "not the very best."



Didn't  the creator get fired for being weird about sexualizing a boy?

EDIT:  no, apparently she was fired for abusing the staff, then later posted nasty thoughts about a 14yo boy.

Yikes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: swan on September 03, 2019, 12:56:16 PM
Didn't  the creator get fired for being weird about sexualizing a boy?

EDIT:  no, apparently she was fired for abusing the staff, then later posted nasty thoughts about a 14yo boy.

Yikes.

I hadn't heard about any of this, so thanks... and YIKES! from me now too. (It was creepy enough that Nickelodeon hired the creator of The Loud House even after he had published a comic about incest; he too was fired for sexual misconduct and other stuff.)

Now I'm reluctant to even mention Infinity Train...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on September 09, 2019, 01:46:42 PM
Castle Rock - 0/10

It's one of those, "you'll have no idea what's going on for 10 hours then get a shitty, stupid ending!," shows.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on September 09, 2019, 04:54:14 PM
Hm, I actually enjoyed that show. 0 seems harsh.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 12, 2019, 09:50:42 AM
The Titans season 2 premiere was pretty underwhelming, though I really enjoyed most of season 1, the end of that storyline was pretty anti-climactic.  I really liked the mystery and the cinematic feel of S1 and I hope they don't lose that in S2.  They solved a lot of the mystery and seem to have set up a more episodic base at the end of the premiere.  But I have heard Superboy is going to show up so yay.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on September 12, 2019, 10:46:30 PM
Superboy has already shown up in season 1.  Along with Krypto
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 13, 2019, 09:44:49 AM
Superboy has already shown up in season 1.  Along with Krypto

I must have missed that
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on September 13, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
Superboy has already shown up in season 1.  Along with Krypto

I must have missed that

Go watch the after-credits tag on the Season 1 finale.

Spoiler
It shows the Conner Kent version.  Cadmus, Superboy as Clone, Krypto.  It's all there.
[close]

That said - Not sure if it is a good idea to bring Superboy in if this season is about Deathstroke.  Realistically speaking, probably Raven and Starfire (maybe even Wondergirl) all should make paste out of him - but superboy is redonkulous vs Deathstroke.

The Titans season 2 premiere was pretty underwhelming, though I really enjoyed most of season 1, the end of that storyline was pretty anti-climactic.  I really liked the mystery and the cinematic feel of S1 and I hope they don't lose that in S2.  They solved a lot of the mystery and seem to have set up a more episodic base at the end of the premiere.  But I have heard Superboy is going to show up so yay.

Also - I totally agree about this season opener.  What a disappointment.  A key ingredient to superhero shows are it's villains, and they wasted the potential of an awesome villain here.  If there was one thing that made Season 1 worth it, it was the build up to Trigon, and this ep. made hash of all of that.  I have some theories as to why they did it, but unless they pay it off with an awesome season 2, then I think I am out on this show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 13, 2019, 05:24:51 PM
It must have been a higher up decision because some of the other villains were so great.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Mormegil on September 16, 2019, 04:48:54 PM
Has anyone watched Another Life on Netflix? Sci-fi show starring Starbuck. I haven't yet. It has terrible reviews on IMDb. Id love for someone to tell me it's worth watching just to have another sci-fi show to binge but not unless someone can tell me it's worth the time.

I watched the first two episodes.  It's pretty terrible.  Character motivations made no logical sense but to further the plot, science was terrible, and I started rooting for most of the crew to die.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on September 16, 2019, 04:55:38 PM
I couldn't get through the pilot.  The crew was like a bunch of reality TV teenagers.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 16, 2019, 05:06:44 PM
Dark, the German Netflix show.

Moody, sci-fi/fantasy about time travel and the end of the world.  Someone invents a time machine that can travel between 33 years into the past or future.  So, it takes place in 1921, 1954, 1987, 2020, and 2053.  I'm pretty sure at least one character is his own grandfather and there's a book about time travel that wrote itself, which they actually address.  Its dark and moody and darned good but time travel is pretty hard to pull of in fiction and it I'm afraid it will end up like Lost. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Morvis13 on September 16, 2019, 07:49:44 PM
Dark, the German Netflix show.

Moody, sci-fi/fantasy about time travel and the end of the world.  Someone invents a time machine that can travel between 33 years into the past or future.  So, it takes place in 1921, 1954, 1987, 2020, and 2053.  I'm pretty sure at least one character is his own grandfather and there's a book about time travel that wrote itself, which they actually address.  Its dark and moody and darned good but time travel is pretty hard to pull of in fiction and it I'm afraid it will end up like Lost.

Have you watched season 2? the time travel really starts messing with your head.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on September 17, 2019, 05:01:54 AM
Dark, the German Netflix show.

Moody, sci-fi/fantasy about time travel and the end of the world.  Someone invents a time machine that can travel between 33 years into the past or future.  So, it takes place in 1921, 1954, 1987, 2020, and 2053.  I'm pretty sure at least one character is his own grandfather and there's a book about time travel that wrote itself, which they actually address.  Its dark and moody and darned good but time travel is pretty hard to pull of in fiction and it I'm afraid it will end up like Lost.

Have you watched season 2? the time travel really starts messing with your head.
Season 2 is so good!!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 17, 2019, 09:24:05 AM
I'm about half way through season 2.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 17, 2019, 09:54:53 AM
Dark season 1 was really good. By the time Dark season 2 came out I forgot all the characters and complex story lines. It's been hard getting back into it. But that's a lot like most of these shows. The crap you forget...
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on September 17, 2019, 05:44:10 PM
Dark season 1 was really good. By the time Dark season 2 came out I forgot all the characters and complex story lines. It's been hard getting back into it. But that's a lot like most of these shows. The crap you forget...
Oh yeah, you need a flowchart to watch it fully. But I just tried to enjoy every scene for itself and the multiple 'aha!' moments from realising who people were and how it fitted together
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: superdave on September 17, 2019, 09:31:13 PM
Doom Patrol, finally finished S1.  Consistently good but rarely great.  But I really like that it's a differnt take on Superhero shows, with most episodes being character driven and very few big action sequences (though the few that happen are pretty great).  It's worth watching if you like superhero shows but are burned out by The Flash
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on September 18, 2019, 09:52:17 AM
Dark season 1 was really good. By the time Dark season 2 came out I forgot all the characters and complex story lines. It's been hard getting back into it. But that's a lot like most of these shows. The crap you forget...
Oh yeah, you need a flowchart to watch it fully. But I just tried to enjoy every scene for itself and the multiple 'aha!' moments from realising who people were and how it fitted together
Oddly enjoyable, last night I uttered an audible, "Oh, its that guy!"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on September 30, 2019, 08:16:28 AM
Hrm. American Horror Story 1984. I can't tell the difference between this season and Scream Queens. It's not bad so far, two eps in.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: wastrel on September 30, 2019, 11:42:07 AM
Hrm. American Horror Story 1984. I can't tell the difference between this season and Scream Queens. It's not bad so far, two eps in.

Not awful, not great.

Spoiler
They got many details of Richard Ramirez's backstory correct, which is a plus in my book, but I find his inclusion extremely eye-rolley.  Why have a made up serial killer in Mr. Jangles, then have a real one too?
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Captain Video on September 30, 2019, 11:46:51 AM
Hrm. American Horror Story 1984. I can't tell the difference between this season and Scream Queens. It's not bad so far, two eps in.

I just finished Armageddon and I really enjoyed it. I usually wait till I can binge the whole season but I was thinking of starting 1984 regardless. Does it at least have a decent 1980s feel to it? Any good music?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: jt512 on September 30, 2019, 02:32:53 PM
I really don't get the love for Transparent.  I tried. I wanted to like it.


I know one of the producer/writers on the show, so I really wanted to like it.  Made it through the first season without actually liking it.  Gave up after that.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on October 01, 2019, 07:52:14 AM
Hrm. American Horror Story 1984. I can't tell the difference between this season and Scream Queens. It's not bad so far, two eps in.

I just finished Armageddon and I really enjoyed it. I usually wait till I can binge the whole season but I was thinking of starting 1984 regardless. Does it at least have a decent 1980s feel to it? Any good music?

There's only 2 eps. I think Stranger Things captured the time better. That said, ep 1 does a pretty good job of capturing the 80s feel. By ep 2 they're up at the murder hack and slash stabby camp and it could be set in modern times as far that goes.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on October 29, 2019, 07:21:09 PM
Batwoman is not great.
Ruby Rose is likeable and a cool heroine but I think it was a mistake to take the "Batman is missing" angle. I also dislike the focus on media and public reactions to her.

I do like the fight scenes and the supporting cast with the exception of her dad and I wish Luke Fox was not presented as such a nerd. The awkward black nerd is getting to be an old trope. How about a smart dude who is capable and has the potential to be trained as he is in the comics?
The most recent episode featured a high society thief and at this stage I couldnt give a fuck about someone stealing pearls and whatnot.
HOWEVER

The action scenes are really fun and the costume is awesome and I will happily sit and watch a batperson non lethally rough people up for 40min a week.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on October 29, 2019, 07:39:14 PM
Alice is great.  I do not like Kate Kane, but I am hoping that is because she was written with room to grow.  I can see where she is learning and improving, so let's hope that continues.  Her privilege blindness is really grating, especially when she deflects people who call her on her shit with lines about how "You wouldn't say that to Batman".  I have  a feeling this is just bad writing, and may never change.

If she doesn't leave her married ex alone though, I may have to get out.  Bi erasure and generally speaking the idea that "the protagonist gets the love interest, and fuck everyone else's reality", are dangerous tropes to meddle in. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CookieMustard on October 31, 2019, 07:52:49 PM
Dark, the German Netflix show.

Moody, sci-fi/fantasy about time travel and the end of the world.  Someone invents a time machine that can travel between 33 years into the past or future.  So, it takes place in 1921, 1954, 1987, 2020, and 2053.  I'm pretty sure at least one character is his own grandfather and there's a book about time travel that wrote itself, which they actually address.  Its dark and moody and darned good but time travel is pretty hard to pull of in fiction and it I'm afraid it will end up like Lost.

"Dark" is one of my favourite shows. It was planned out to run for three seasons, the 3rd and final series is currently being filmed.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on November 12, 2019, 02:20:39 PM
Oh my, Mandalorian is BAAD.

It looks like Star Wars, but it is missing the feel and the music and anything that makes Star Wars good. I think it is trying to be a bit of a Western, but that doesn't work either. It has Pedro Pascal, a very charming and charismatic actor but he is constantly hidden under a bucket and doesn't even speak all that much. Taika Waititi plays a robotic robot with an American accent.

I am baffled. This is a show with no characters, no story, no soul and no promise of anything but a cog in the Disney machine. It is a pilot that does not grab anyone apart form the foamy-mouthed Star Wars dudebros with a hard-on for Boba Fett, but it isn't even Boba Fett.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 12, 2019, 06:34:01 PM
Oh my, Mandalorian is BAAD.

It looks like Star Wars, but it is missing the feel and the music and anything that makes Star Wars good. I think it is trying to be a bit of a Western, but that doesn't work either. It has Pedro Pascal, a very charming and charismatic actor but he is constantly hidden under a bucket and doesn't even speak all that much. Taika Waititi plays a robotic robot with an American accent.

I am baffled. This is a show with no characters, no story, no soul and no promise of anything but a cog in the Disney machine. It is a pilot that does not grab anyone apart form the foamy-mouthed Star Wars dudebros with a hard-on for Boba Fett, but it isn't even Boba Fett.
For some reason I thought it might be.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on November 12, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
Oh my, Mandalorian is BAAD.

It looks like Star Wars, but it is missing the feel and the music and anything that makes Star Wars good. I think it is trying to be a bit of a Western, but that doesn't work either. It has Pedro Pascal, a very charming and charismatic actor but he is constantly hidden under a bucket and doesn't even speak all that much. Taika Waititi plays a robotic robot with an American accent.

I am baffled. This is a show with no characters, no story, no soul and no promise of anything but a cog in the Disney machine. It is a pilot that does not grab anyone apart form the foamy-mouthed Star Wars dudebros with a hard-on for Boba Fett, but it isn't even Boba Fett.
For some reason I thought it might be.

I strongly disagree, and while it has some for sure flaws, it is good with the potential to be really good.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on November 12, 2019, 08:38:50 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.gerryanderson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/spy1mm002.jpg?resize=850%2C491&ssl=1)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on November 12, 2019, 10:08:06 PM
I'll see your Space 1999 and raise you Blake's 7.

(https://i.imgur.com/L4OapsD.jpg)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on November 12, 2019, 10:23:39 PM
I'll see your Space 1999 and raise you Blake's 7.

(https://i.imgur.com/L4OapsD.jpg)

Teenage me loved both those shows.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: swan on November 12, 2019, 10:23:42 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.gerryanderson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/spy1mm002.jpg?resize=850%2C491&ssl=1)

Moonbase Alpha - The only place where the Hyperloop actually made sense. (You know, the underground tubes keeping out the hideously-sharp regolith & dust, plus all those monsters and stuff.)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/iGMSfatlA4CztcuugU/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on November 12, 2019, 10:38:39 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.gerryanderson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/spy1mm002.jpg?resize=850%2C491&ssl=1)

Earth II?

Barbara Bain? Martin Landeau?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Captain Video on November 13, 2019, 01:56:52 AM
(https://i1.wp.com/www.gerryanderson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/spy1mm002.jpg?resize=850%2C491&ssl=1)

That's extremely bizarre, I just started watching this on Amazon prime. Are you spying on me?  ???

That Ian Mcshane episode scared the crap out of me as a kid and I never once made the association when watching Deadwood.

(https://i0.wp.com/gerryanderson.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/IanMcShane.jpg)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 13, 2019, 11:37:46 AM
Just asked my mate who subscribes to literally everything and would buy actual excrement if it had a Lucas Film or Donald Glover branding on it when he will be getting Disney+ so we can have a look.
Apparently its only available in the US? So we have to endure the same strip mining of the services we DO pay for but the worlds biggest entertainment juggernaut cant region unlock its video library?
Im SURE it has to do with Disney being censored in the UK and Ireland so I guess I should go hassle my local rep ::)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on November 13, 2019, 02:22:51 PM
Just asked my mate who subscribes to literally everything and would buy actual excrement if it had a Lucas Film or Donald Glover branding on it when he will be getting Disney+ so we can have a look.
Apparently its only available in the US? So we have to endure the same strip mining of the services we DO pay for but the worlds biggest entertainment juggernaut cant region unlock its video library?
Im SURE it has to do with Disney being censored in the UK and Ireland so I guess I should go hassle my local rep ::)

They are releasing it slowly around the world.

Australia and New Zealand get it on Tuesday (19th Nov). Your part of the world gets it March 31, 2020 (Which does seem weirdly late)  ???
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on November 13, 2019, 02:36:39 PM
We got it yesterday in Canada.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 13, 2019, 03:23:43 PM
I just took a quick flight to Canada and watched it.
It was ok. Better than I expected.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on November 16, 2019, 07:00:55 AM
Frontier
Jason Mamoas netflix series about the fur trade in Canada in the 18th century.
Mamoa is the central character around which everything revolves, but as with his actual acting career, its hard to see why people actually follow him. He has no charisma or admirable traits.
The opening credits make much of the struggle of indigenous people but the show is more preoccupied with Mamoas revenge story and barely touches upon the plight of native people.
There are a good few genuine scots in the show but for some reason none of the Irish characters are played by Irish actors while the Irish actors that are there play English or other nationalities.
Mamoa himself is touted as 'half Irish' which is fine, but plays absolutely no relevance to the plot. He couldnt just be a native kid who was taken by the HBC? But I guess they didnt want a tv show featuring a fully indigenous lead?

It also falls victim to the evil psycho homosexual trope where the only gay characters are gaybto show the depths of their depravity.
Very bad show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on November 29, 2019, 11:44:39 PM
Not sure how I feel about Apple TV+'s Servant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_(TV_series)) yet.  ???

Quote
The series follows "parents Dorothy and Sean Turner, who have hired young nanny Leanne to help care for their newborn child." As time goes on, it becomes clear that "things are not quite as they seem."

Typical of M. Night Shyamalamadingdong's other work, it is full of twists and turns. There were 2 major twists just in Episode 1 and I still think there are more twists to come.
Not to mention a lot of weird shit going on with the creepy nanny. Even more than I mention below  ???

Twist 1
The "newborn child" is a realistic looking baby doll that the mother treats as real. Her doctor and husband gave her it because she couldn't cope with losing her baby and they hope she will snap out of her delusion eventually and accept that her baby died.
The mother hires a nanny so she can go back to work. The nanny treats the baby as if it's real also. Despite the husband telling her she doesn't need to while the wife is out of the house.
It was a bit of a shock when the husband picks the "baby" up by it's feet and bangs it's head on the cradle (I still thought it was real at that stage)
[close]

Twist 2
At the end of episode 1 the husband hears a baby crying and finds a real baby in the cradle, instead of the doll.
The creepy nanny maintains the story that it's his baby and she hasn't done anything.

Other weird shit:
The husband keeps cutting himself and getting wood splinters all over his body. Even down his throat  ???
He has also loses the ability to taste anything in episode 2. What's that about?
Creepy nanny is very religious and makes wicker crosses.
Creepy nanny goes through the wife's room while they are out and wears her rings, make up etc
Rupert Grint (Ron Weasley from Harry Potter) plays the wife's brother and helps the husband investigate the creepy nanny and try and find out if a baby is missing. It seems the nanny has stolen the identity of a girl who died in a fire with her parents (or did she? ) There was a wicker cross hanging in her burnt out family home

I'm still trying to work out if anything supernatural is going on with the nanny, the baby, the husband getting splinters & losing his sense of taste. It has a supernatural feel to it all.
[close]

I'll keep watching just to see where it goes for now.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on December 01, 2019, 10:33:16 AM
Day Break - Netflix

Zombish apocalypse set in a highschool where everyone but the 10 year old is played by someone in there 20s. 

Its mildly amusing and plays with a lot of tropes from various genre's which is fun if you like that sort of thing.  There's an episode narrated by the RZA and it has Mathew Brodrick as a cannibal high school principal
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on December 01, 2019, 03:51:22 PM
Welp Titans shit the bed.  Right after they got it cleaned up after that last watery sewage befoulment.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on December 01, 2019, 05:31:19 PM
Not sure how I feel about Apple TV+'s Servant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_(TV_series)) yet.  ???

Quote
The series follows "parents Dorothy and Sean Turner, who have hired young nanny Leanne to help care for their newborn child." As time goes on, it becomes clear that "things are not quite as they seem."

Typical of M. Night Shyamalamadingdong's other work, it is full of twists and turns. There were 2 major twists just in Episode 1 and I still think there are more twists to come.
Not to mention a lot of weird shit going on with the creepy nanny. Even more than I mention below  ???

Twist 1
The "newborn child" is a realistic looking baby doll that the mother treats as real. Her doctor and husband gave her it because she couldn't cope with losing her baby and they hope she will snap out of her delusion eventually and accept that her baby died.
The mother hires a nanny so she can go back to work. The nanny treats the baby as if it's real also. Despite the husband telling her she doesn't need to while the wife is out of the house.
It was a bit of a shock when the husband picks the "baby" up by it's feet and bangs it's head on the cradle (I still thought it was real at that stage)
[close]

Twist 2
At the end of episode 1 the husband hears a baby crying and finds a real baby in the cradle, instead of the doll.
The creepy nanny maintains the story that it's his baby and she hasn't done anything.

Other weird shit:
The husband keeps cutting himself and getting wood splinters all over his body. Even down his throat  ???
He has also loses the ability to taste anything in episode 2. What's that about?
Creepy nanny is very religious and makes wicker crosses.
Creepy nanny goes through the wife's room while they are out and wears her rings, make up etc
Rupert Grint (Ron Weasley from Harry Potter) plays the wife's brother and helps the husband investigate the creepy nanny and try and find out if a baby is missing. It seems the nanny has stolen the identity of a girl who died in a fire with her parents (or did she? ) There was a wicker cross hanging in her burnt out family home

I'm still trying to work out if anything supernatural is going on with the nanny, the baby, the husband getting splinters & losing his sense of taste. It has a supernatural feel to it all.
[close]

I'll keep watching just to see where it goes for now.
Spoiler
It's also worth pointing out that the guy who loses his taste buds is a high end chef/restaurant consultant, and losing his sense of taste is kind of a big deal.

Also the wife has catatonic episodes where she seems to remember the SIDs death of her baby, but snaps out of it.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on December 01, 2019, 05:51:34 PM
Not sure how I feel about Apple TV+'s Servant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_(TV_series)) yet.  ???

Quote
The series follows "parents Dorothy and Sean Turner, who have hired young nanny Leanne to help care for their newborn child." As time goes on, it becomes clear that "things are not quite as they seem."

Typical of M. Night Shyamalamadingdong's other work, it is full of twists and turns. There were 2 major twists just in Episode 1 and I still think there are more twists to come.
Not to mention a lot of weird shit going on with the creepy nanny. Even more than I mention below  ???

Twist 1
The "newborn child" is a realistic looking baby doll that the mother treats as real. Her doctor and husband gave her it because she couldn't cope with losing her baby and they hope she will snap out of her delusion eventually and accept that her baby died.
The mother hires a nanny so she can go back to work. The nanny treats the baby as if it's real also. Despite the husband telling her she doesn't need to while the wife is out of the house.
It was a bit of a shock when the husband picks the "baby" up by it's feet and bangs it's head on the cradle (I still thought it was real at that stage)
[close]

Twist 2
At the end of episode 1 the husband hears a baby crying and finds a real baby in the cradle, instead of the doll.
The creepy nanny maintains the story that it's his baby and she hasn't done anything.

Other weird shit:
The husband keeps cutting himself and getting wood splinters all over his body. Even down his throat  ???
He has also loses the ability to taste anything in episode 2. What's that about?
Creepy nanny is very religious and makes wicker crosses.
Creepy nanny goes through the wife's room while they are out and wears her rings, make up etc
Rupert Grint (Ron Weasley from Harry Potter) plays the wife's brother and helps the husband investigate the creepy nanny and try and find out if a baby is missing. It seems the nanny has stolen the identity of a girl who died in a fire with her parents (or did she? ) There was a wicker cross hanging in her burnt out family home

I'm still trying to work out if anything supernatural is going on with the nanny, the baby, the husband getting splinters & losing his sense of taste. It has a supernatural feel to it all.
[close]

I'll keep watching just to see where it goes for now.
Spoiler
It's also worth pointing out that the guy who loses his taste buds is a high end chef/restaurant consultant, and losing his sense of taste is kind of a big deal.

Also the wife has catatonic episodes where she seems to remember the SIDs death of her baby, but snaps out of it.
[close]

They are major points. There have also been several small throw away lines that I think will come back at some time.

Spoiler
Like Chekov's coffee machine that no-one but the husband can operate.
It may be nothing, but it is prominent in the kitchen and the wife goes out of way to explain that it is too complicated for her and the nanny to use.
[close]

I find Rupert Grint's acting a bit off-putting. I've seen him in several acting roles since Harry Potter and he always looks and acts like Ron Weasley pretending to be an adult  :)
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 02, 2019, 12:21:40 PM
Welp Titans shit the bed.  Right after they got it cleaned up after that last watery sewage befoulment.
I liked seeing Nightwing finally.
The episode didnt seem any worse than the rest of the season which has consistently been pretty shit, badly written and with an inflated sense of itself?
What in particular did you hate?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on December 02, 2019, 01:46:57 PM
I dropped Titans after an episode and a half.  Not my bag.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: PANTS! on December 02, 2019, 02:22:28 PM
Welp Titans shit the bed.  Right after they got it cleaned up after that last watery sewage befoulment.
I liked seeing Nightwing finally.
The episode didnt seem any worse than the rest of the season which has consistently been pretty shit, badly written and with an inflated sense of itself?
What in particular did you hate?

For starters
Spoiler
the out-of-left-field, unaware of it's misogyny, egregious, unearned, and all-around stupid death of Wonder Girl.  But also the death of Deathstroke, their abuse of Gar, neglect of Connor, the whole stupid reason for Greyson's arc (it was a storyline defining a character), Their completely contrived Titans' Women moment that even then it was unearned and cliche was snatched away by Nightwing, Hawk's superdickery, Dawn taking him back, ....  And that's just the last episode.
[close]

To sum up, they are hitting plot points not character arcs, and it really makes the show suuuuuuuck.

But you didn't think it got better and it showed some promise in the middle when they were talking about Jerico, but Dick hadn't put on his full body hair-suit?
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Morvis13 on December 02, 2019, 02:25:27 PM
Welp Titans shit the bed.  Right after they got it cleaned up after that last watery sewage befoulment.
I liked seeing Nightwing finally.
The episode didnt seem any worse than the rest of the season which has consistently been pretty shit, badly written and with an inflated sense of itself?
What in particular did you hate?

For starters
Spoiler
the out-of-left-field, unaware of it's misogyny, egregious, unearned, and all-around stupid death of Wonder Girl.  But also the death of Deathstroke, their abuse of Gar, neglect of Connor, the whole stupid reason for Greyson's arc (it was a storyline defining a character), Their completely contrived Titans' Women moment that even then it was unearned and cliche was snatched away by Nightwing, Hawk's superdickery, Dawn taking him back, ....  And that's just the last episode.
[close]

To sum up, they are hitting plot points not character arcs, and it really makes the show suuuuuuuck.

But you didn't think it got better and it showed some promise in the middle when they were talking about Jerico, but Dick hadn't put on his full body hair-suit?

Don't forget THE most important thing:

Spoiler
Anna Diop is not naked
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on December 02, 2019, 05:22:22 PM
I dropped Titans after an episode and a half.  Not my bag.

The number of shows where I watched only the first episode, or the first two episodes, is staggering. It's why I usually don't bother any more and get most of my content from YouTube.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on December 02, 2019, 05:29:51 PM
I don't have time to watch shows I *like*.  I'll be damned if I'll spend time on a show I'm luke warm, at best, about.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 11, 2019, 06:44:02 PM
Treadstone is a very decent spy action show set in the Bourne universe. Its about a branch of the project that are manchurian candidates and are being reactivated but also flashes back to the original Treadstone dude in the 70s in Berlin.
The cast is a bit too variable in quality to make the show really great and it suffers from the logic issues that most of these things do- The challenge of modern intelligence agencies is not in finding people who are super great at kung fu. But thats all it seems to take in this universe.
Its especially frustrating when these amnesiacs show up to an assassination and the entire thing has been set up for them right down to murder weapons and way in. I want to see a show about these invisible support staff who do all the int gathering and smuggle weapons across borders and do the entire job for them except pull the trigger.
But mostly its a fun conspiracy thing that I would certainly recommend.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on December 23, 2019, 04:17:53 AM
The Withcher series is, I guess, all right. Nothing horrible (apart from dragon design) but nothing particularly great either. The timelines are confusing as hell, though.

It is, however, seemingly free of Netflix bloat, which is a good thing.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on December 23, 2019, 08:39:26 AM
The Withcher series is, I guess, all right. Nothing horrible (apart from dragon design) but nothing particularly great either. The timelines are confusing as hell, though.

It is, however, seemingly free of Netflix bloat, which is a good thing.

The first few episodes were a bit disappointing, but the season gets a little better as it progresses. And yes, the timelines were very confusing.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on December 23, 2019, 08:59:48 AM
The Withcher series is, I guess, all right. Nothing horrible (apart from dragon design) but nothing particularly great either. The timelines are confusing as hell, though.

It is, however, seemingly free of Netflix bloat, which is a good thing.

The first few episodes were a bit disappointing, but the season gets a little better as it progresses. And yes, the timelines were very confusing.

One thing I kinda miss is the monster detective aspect and its proportion to courtly intrigue.

I would totally watch a Witcher series with some semblance of an overarching plot, but mostly about monsters of the week in different backwater villages. Just solid side quest content, really.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on December 23, 2019, 12:41:25 PM
The Withcher series is, I guess, all right. Nothing horrible (apart from dragon design) but nothing particularly great either. The timelines are confusing as hell, though.

It is, however, seemingly free of Netflix bloat, which is a good thing.

The first few episodes were a bit disappointing, but the season gets a little better as it progresses. And yes, the timelines were very confusing.

One thing I kinda miss is the monster detective aspect and its proportion to courtly intrigue.

I would totally watch a Witcher series with some semblance of an overarching plot, but mostly about monsters of the week in different backwater villages. Just solid side quest content, really.

Yeah, they could've done more with that angle.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 26, 2019, 10:15:38 AM
I found the Witcher to be decent and it gets better as it goes, but its just getting good when it ends.
The timelines should have been flagged more clearly as it was not fun figuring out that there WERE multiple timelines and then going back to try and piece things together.

As with many netflix originals, it was really in need of a final edit or script doctor. I didnt enjoy any of the stories aside from Geralts but he is very under developed as a character.
As fantasy fluff goes, its all I really needed but it could have been a level up if it hadnt tripped over itself trying to be too clever.

Edit- The bard was VERY annoying btw.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on December 26, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
Yeah, the timeline jumps were a bit awkward/rough. 

Aside from that, though, it really scratched an 'high-fantasy action/adventure' itch for me. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on December 26, 2019, 03:37:03 PM
Yep! Its an itch that has been hard to scratch until recently and I do prefer it to the Game of Thrones tv show as a piece of high fantasy.

Just watched Dont Fuck with Cats on netflix.

Very interesting 3 episode docu series that got me hooked. Was fun how the makers gave you hints and left a beat for you to figure out the next step as if you were along for the ride in this fb group.
It left one or two dangling threads that will bother me and I wished throughout that they had not named him. But its a fun ride.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on December 26, 2019, 08:42:42 PM
Yeah, the timeline jumps were a bit awkward/rough. 

Aside from that, though, it really scratched an 'high-fantasy action/adventure' itch for me.

Yeah, me too, especially now that GOT is over. It also somehow reminded me of Legend of the Seeker.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on December 26, 2019, 09:26:44 PM
Yeah, me too, especially now that GOT is over. It also somehow reminded me of Legend of the Seeker.

Haha, I had the same thought.

Things Witcher needs for season 2:
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on December 26, 2019, 11:12:00 PM
.....It also somehow reminded me of Legend of the Seeker.

Haha, I had the same thought.

Things Witcher needs for season 2:
  • Move past the 'multiple timeline' hullabaloo
  • 9 foot tall New Zealanders cast as wizards


Are you referring to Bruce Spence? He is more Aussie than Kiwi. Most of his life and career has been here.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:04:40 PM
Carrying on from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43443.msg9647367.html#msg9647367).

Star Trek: Voyager S01

Spoiler
S01E01 – Caretaker

Apparently, there's a lot of nepotism in Starfleet. Maybe one reason for their hatred of genetic engineering is that it actually is a way to create more equal opportunities, independent of background. It's similar with androids. "What, someone just built you to be good enough to qualify, and you're not some high ranking officer's relative, lover, or best friend's son?"

I like the holodoctor.

Can't they replicate another replicator? With some solar panels and whatever else they need to power it. Then you can construct a base that could expand itself.

With this location in the Delta Quadrant being as far from the Badlands, as Bajor is from the other side of the wormhole in the Gamma Quadrant, I would like to see a map of the galaxy with the Quadrants and these locations marked. Is Voyager and the wormhole right across the border from each other? Do these locations form an equilateral triangle across the center of the galaxy?

Is Voyager nominative determinism?

S01E02 – Parallax

Some seat belts might be useful.

S01E03 – Time and Again

JANEWAY: Don't even think about it, Tom. The Prime Directive is clear. We cannot allow our presence to alter this planet's natural course of events.
PARIS: Even if the natural course of events is annihilation?
JANEWAY: Yeah.

That's dumb. Surely the point of the Prime Directive is to avoid the Federation corrupting others (or itself)? You're not helping anyone by leaving them to go extinct.

They should've returned to the Alpha Quadrant when they had the chance, if the point is to minimize their influence as much as possible.

S01E04 – Phage

If they're not supposed to interfere in the development of other civilizations, shouldn't that include not mining resources that others could be using, when you don't have a trade deal?

Holographic lungs, fine. But why is that easier than using real matter to achieve the same? The organs don't have to be perfect, and they could be improved over time, without worrying about him dying as soon as there's a power loss.

So do they have replicators or not? They replicate up a tool, but replicators being offline is why Neelix has a kitchen, something Janeway comments on again at the end of the episode. Can the medical replicator not create food?

S01E05 – The Cloud

Apparently, they're cooking manually to save energy. I don't see how that works, when there's so much waste heat in cooking, and more waste in overall process. It's like using candles to save energy on light bulbs. Or organic farming. Technological regression is almost by definition less efficient.

S01E06 – Eye of the Needle

A time traveling wormhole, what are the chances?

S01E07 – Ex Post Facto

Curious that they have dogs in this part of the galaxy, which presumably has had no contact or shared genetic history with Earth, since before dogs existed.

S01E08 – Emanations

Good episode, for the most part.

What's neural energy?

S01E09 – Prime Factors

Do these guys also have much faster ships, or do they use teleportation to explore the galaxy with? Or can they only teleport between specific locations? In which case, (how) did they set up the infrastructure, or tap into something someone else had made?

S01E10 – State of Flux

Sometimes, the phasers they're carrying seem to be decorative.

S01E11 – Heroes and Demons

They have a better explanation than normal, for why the holodeck malfunctioning is a problem. But it still seems like a serious design flaw, to not be able to cut power to the holodeck.

Why does the holodoctor have to read a book manually?

S01E12 – Cathexis

The most dualist episode yet. "Spock's Brain" without the brain.

I would've liked to see a backup doctor to the backup doctor, when the backup doctor wasn't working.

S01E13 – Faces

Split a half-Klingon/half-human in two, and you get 200% of a person?

How can you turn someone into a "pure" Klingon, if you've never seen a "pure" Klingon before? Presumably, it's not a simple matter of turning off the human genes, because they have to have a lot of genes in common to be able to breed in the first place.

I suppose she has two X chromosomes, one Klingon, one human. If using one each is how it's done, then she shouldn't look that much like herself. If she only has one X chromosome, she'd have Turner syndrome. If she only has half of all her DNA pairs, she'd have miscarriage.

If the Vidiians can create two fully functioning persons from one, why can't they manufacture organs from scratch? Or duplicate as many organs as they need.

It makes sense that she would need to have her genes restored. But they're delving far too deep into the metaphor of it. As if Torres is two individuals in one. Rather a person with two parents, same as most people.

I was hoping Pete Durst was going to turn out to have been a regular character.

Other than him, who died? Maybe both Torres' were copies, and the original was dead at the start of the episode. If the Vidiians can create one new brain with a complete set of memories, they can create two.

Why did the Voyager crew leave everyone else to continue being enslaved and harvested? Did they tell Neelix about the Talaxian?

S01E14 – Jetrel

They're not very skeptical this time. For all you know, he could be on a quest to kill everyone who survived the WMD or escaped occupation.

In any case, it's a strange idea that a civilization could develop interstellar travel before learning how to make nuclear bombs, or an equivalent means of instantaneous destruction.

S01E15 – Learning Curve

It feels weird that they're making the Bajoran take off his earring, when they had two years of DS9 before Voyager.

Is Worf's sash in keeping with Starfleet's dress code?
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S02-S03E01

Spoiler
S02E01 – The 37's

How are there any liquids left in the car, not sucked out or boiled away?

They let themselves get disarmed quite easily.

Can they share technology with these Earthlings?

S02E02 – Initiations

Why did Chakotay join the Maquis, if he doesn't believe in owning land, or in killing those who try to kill him for land that they claim to own?

S02E03 – Projections

I liked the original fake plot better. It would've been nice to a see the technology itself rescue the crew, when they're indisposed.

S02E04 – Elogium

So Neelix's girlfriend is (was) a prepubescent.

If being a generation ship is an option, I would've considered going back to that Earthling planet, and building a proper base of operations there, if it's that not important for them to return home themselves.

S02E05 – Non Sequitor

What I like about this episode is that they didn't go far back in time. They didn't make any more changes than they needed to, only to then ignore the scope of those changes.

Why were the security personnel so incompetent?

Starfleet Headquarters' security is even worse. If someone can beam in without being blocked, and without being faced with automated defenses, then any random person with a transporter can bomb it. Or steal top secret technology.

Overall, the story is not very different from being stuck in a holodream. Especially with Kim sort of mashing the keyboard to find his way back, and not encountering any of the difficulties suggested by the alien.

S02E06 – Twisted

KIM: We can't go backwards either, Mister Tuvok. The distortion has completely surrounded us like a ring.

If only space had one more dimension.

They're going quite Scooby Doo in this season.

Everything is rearranged, but in a way that is conveniently unnoticeable inside the hallways and rooms. Nothing is damaged, no one is killed, nothing explodes, and they tell us none of the information they insist has been added to their computer. They just threw together a ghost story, because that's what sci-fi is about, apparently.

If the Doctor is a projection, how can he be stuck in a location that is not where he's stored? Do they transmit his entire existence to the holodeck every time, so that if something goes wrong with the holodeck, they've already deleted the program from sickbay? Are they deliberately not keeping any backups of this emergency program?

Or was there a doctor program running in sickbay as well, during this time, wondering what's going on?

S02E07 – Parturition

How would the cave system have fresher air than the outside?

S02E08 – Persistence of Vision

The holonovel was slightly relevant, this time.

S02E09 – Tattoo

I'm not sure what the point of this episode was. Aliens genetically engineered some humans into wanting to migrate, yet they spent a thousand generations to get to where they were going?

If this was meant to be some kind of morality lesson, it would've been better told without the mysticism. If what enables people to act the right way is receiving powers from aliens, then that's the same as saying we can't be expected to act the right way without them.

Alternatively, the message is once again that you should obey your parents and stick to traditions, because you're an ignorant kid who can never know any better. Which does not fit with the idea of people trying to better themselves. If society is limited to the standards set by previous generations, then society can never make progress. Only stagnate or regress.

S02E10 – Cold Fire

Suddenly, Kes is a Q, and no one questions how she can apparently generate energy from nothing.

What's with the child-like female mates in the Delta Quadrant?

S02E11 – Maneuvers

Look out, it's a Minbari Cruiser.

"It's as if they know our access codes". So you didn't bother to change them after the Cardassian spy took off and joined the enemy that's been chasing you since the start of the series.

"Drop your weapons". They're politely waiting for the violent invaders to turn themselves in. Never don't waste having the upper hand.

This makes both Starfleet and the Maquis look incompetent.

If Chakotay could beam onto their ship at any time and find his way directly to the transporter module, why not beam over a bomb to destroy it instead? Rig a phaser to overload or something. Also, he shouldn't have handed them that Federation phaser.

Then Voyager shows up expecting to be able to beam him out, and he's been specifically shielded. But why would you then drop out of warp and engage in battle, rather than beam out anything and anyone else to disable the threat?

Okay, they eventually figured out that that was an option. And once again they wasted having the upper hand. "Hey, you've been beating up our guy and damaged our ship for long enough. We're going to leave now". They didn't even do anything about Seska.

Then in the conclusion, it's made clear that Seska raped him, as if to remind people that she's a bad person, and how much of a mistake the Voyager team just made.

S02E12 – Resistance

I liked the episode, but why didn't the Prime Directive stop them this time?

S02E13 – Prototype

It's a fair enough question to ask the consequences of basically creating a robot army. You should learn more before you get involved.

But look into it, then, instead of applying the Prime Directive in such an absolutist way, where you make it sound like evolution sorts out right from wrong. Letting nature play out doesn't mean that only the most ethical survive.

The episode turned out better than expected.

S02E14 – Alliances

I sort of liked the episode, but it's annoying when what's a game changer in one episode is forgotten about in the next one.

Why make a deal with the Kazon as if they're your equals?

Stop running, start hunting them back. Beam out the crews and put them on trial, take their ships, tear them apart for materials or whatever, find an uninhabited planet for the crews, or send them back home in their escape pods, etc.

Keep at it, until the Kazon have stopped attacking you. Any hypothetical deals should come after a surrender. At the very least, a deal with the Nistrim should include extraditing Seska for a trial.

S02E15 – Threshold

What do you need warp 10 for? You can get to where you want to go in the exact time you want, if you can choose any speed up to but not including infinite. How do you control where you stop if you travel at infinite speed?

And how do you accelerate up to infinite? There's no difference between going from warp 9.95 to warp 10, than from warp 1 to warp 10.

Next to that issue, the whole mutation thing doesn't matter.

But on the TMNL thing; what happened to putting people in stasis while you figure things out? And  if the solution is destroying his mutated DNA to leave his original DNA intact, then where is his original DNA stored?

Wouldn't this be a job for the transporter (the device that you routinely use to take people apart and put them back together again, while disabling weapons and removing non-native germs), rather than radiation?

S02E16 – Meld

The chief of security doing a mind meld with a murderer. Seems like something you'd want to have more security around for.

Overall a good episode, but once again very poor security measures. How can someone who's being kept in a force field, for everyone else's safety, escape without notice?

S02E17 – Dreadnaught

If you can beam inside the missile, what's stopping you from beaming a photon torpedo inside it?

S02E18 – Deathwish

Really, the apple on the head story?

I liked the episode for the most part, but not when it turned into Forrest Gump.

Why can't you teleport a known poison out of a body?

S02E19 – Lifesigns

It's an alright episode, for a romance plot. I would've liked to see them learn something more about the Vidiians from this, though.

If you can reproduce a Vidiian layer by layer holographically, to the point where a Vidiian brain can't tell the difference, then it seems like you're very close to being able to replicate healthy organs for them.

S02E20 – Investigations

They regularly transport unknown aliens who aren't wearing combadges, so why is it a simple matter for Starfleet saboteurs to take off their combadges to avoid capture?

Or why don't you beam security personnel to the relevant location?

It's bizarre that they basically laugh off what Jonas did, and his death. Did he have no friends on Voyager, no one who trusted in him, no one who would want to know more about what happened?

S02E21 – Deadlock

They beamed out the baby.

Then everyone died. But didn't.

This is the second Vidiian story where entire bodies have been duplicated. Surely there is some way for the organ-harvesting Vidiians to take advantage of this.

S02E22 – Innocence

So Tuvak wouldn't try to stop the aging process, if he could.

S02E23 – The Thaw

Such potential when going to an artificial reality, and then it's just a bunch of clowns.

"dead, massive heart failure". If there's no brain damage, what are you not beaming him directly to sick bay for? Even if you can't make him a new heart immediately, we can keep people alive without hearts in our time. And on Voyager, they've specifically used holographic lungs. Emulating the functions of a pumping heart is no more complicated.

JANEWAY: Why do people enjoy dangerous sports or holodeck adventures with the safety off? Why, after all these centuries, do children still ride on roller coasters?

Is a lack of safety really necessary for the adrenaline to kick in? Or are intense experiences inherently less safe, and people generally do high risk activities in spite of the risks, rather than because of them?

I would expect future roller coasters to become a lot safer, without lessening the experience.

S02E24 – Tuvix

The safest way to travel.

Does hehe have twice the mass? Twice the neurons, muscle mass, lung capacity, etc.? If Tuvix has twice the mass and no greater function, that should be noticeable. But if hehe doesn't have twice the mass, where did the rest of it go?

They did a better take on the merger of two, than they did on the splitting of one (Torres). But the ending was abrupt and left more questions unanswered. What did Neelix and Tuvok remember of the event? Did they each get some memories, did they get no memories? Did their immune systems learn anything from (or attack) each other? How were their microbiomes affected? Where did the extra uniform come from?

Presumably, they could recreate the merger, as long as they kept that organism around. Would Tuvix remember having been Tuvix before?

Maybe at some point later, it would've been really handy to be able to merge two crewmembers at will.

S02E25 – Resolutions

So how is the virus resistant to beaming? E.g. the DNA by DNA split they did in the previous episode.

Why were the two highest ranking officers on the away team?

S02E26S03E01 – Basics

"we'll need every advantage we can get on this mission"

Them use the force teleporters, dammit. Fly around in warp, beam out critical engine and weapon components (or beam in tactical charges to those locations), until they have no means of attacking you anymore.

You won't be adhering to the Prime Directive by allowing yourselves to be killed because of Alpha Quadrant Seska. But it's that much worse to allow Voyager's technology to be captured, and unless you're going to blow yourselves up before you risk a trap, you should put a real effort into defending yourselves.

Figures they assumed this Kazon would have valid command codes as a renegade, and not immediately assume he's a spy, when they don't have a clue about the need to change their own codes in similar situations.

They wade through attack after attack, temporarily disabling the attacking ships, not capturing anyone, let alone salvaging their ships. They do nothing to dissuade them from attacking again, and seem to be looking for a way to fail without simply surrendering.

These Starfleet computers don't care much for the proper chain of command.

There's the backup doctor to the backup doctor.

The second part was significantly better than the first.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:07:11 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S03E02-S04E01

Spoiler
S03E02 – Flashback

All that fighting, taking damage, and fixing everything back up again to the point of having virtually no other limitations, and they still don't have enough replicator throughput to feed everyone?

An okay episode, but inferior to its DS9 counterpart.

S03E03 – The Chute

They could've beamed up the antagonist ambassador. Instead they act as their law enforcers, when all they know (or assume) is that they've imprisoned their crewmembers without just cause.

Then Janeway tells the civilians who have been attacked and captured by Voyager, that Voyager's not going to attack the prison, because that's not what they do.

Then they threaten to turn the civilians over to the government, even after they realize that the government won't help them in any way. They don't care that the people they kidnapped could be right to oppose the government. Maybe without Voyager's intervention, they would play a vital role in changing their society for the better. The only thing Janeway seems to be interested in, is to find someone whose lives she can ruin.

Then… wtf was that? Neelix parks his ship next to the prison, chats with their military while they let him keep evacuating prisoners, and then he leaves without a problem.

And they ultimately leave all the other presumably innocent victims to it.

How many more prisons are there, what else is going on on that station? It's unlikely that they would invest those kind of resources for one small group of people. What's going on on that planet, if they have torture facilities in space, with seemingly no purpose other than to have people slowly kill each other?

If the only concern for Voyager is to amorally enforce the Prime Directive and do minimal interference, then what do they think is going to happen to the people of that world, after aliens have successfully broken into and escaped from a prison?

Not the worst episode technically, but this may be the worst episode ethically.

S03E04 – The Swarm

I liked the holodoctor plot overall. But I was surprised when the episode ended, and there was nothing more to the Swarm story.

Could do without the singing.

Janeway tells us she doesn't care about Starfleet rules anymore, in being prepared to violate alien territory. So what does that mean with the context of the previous episode? That she ultimately doesn't care about someone who isn't herself or her immediate associates?

Rather than scrubbing, can't the Doctor simply turn himself off and on again? Which it turns out he needs to do anyway. Except they need to restore to factory settings, and they forgot to take any backups.

Why can't they copy and paste from the diagnostic tool, rather than destroy it?

Assuming that the Swarm territory is a perfect sphere, given that it would've taken 15 months to travel around it (safely), wouldn't it still have taken at least 4.77 months to do this trip straight across? If they weren't going through the deepest part of it, then the difference between traveling through and traveling around should've been less. So I suppose they must've been facing a territory that was significantly taller and wider than it was deep, in the direction they were going. This territory would be acting as a wall between them and the part of the galaxy that they're leaving behind. Presumably, Neelix won't know much about what's ahead.

S03E05 – False Profits

The episode doesn't make sense from either a selfish or a minimal interference perspective. Or from a benevolent perspective, since they don't help people for the sake of helping them. What would make sense is that Janeway is incompetent, and that this sets the stage for mutiny.

How much time passed between the Ferengi being beamed back down, and the appearance of the "Grand Proxy"? Why wouldn't the Ferengi immediately suspect that it was a ruse, rather than Voyager having been able to stabilize the wormhole, contact Ferenginar, and get the Grand Nagus to send the Grand Proxy? They already admitted to having been stuck in the Delta Quadrant for two years.

How is it less of an interference to create fake evidence for someone's religious beliefs, than to expose alien fraudsters?

If some aliens dropped by Earth and picked a religion to provide unique material evidence for, that would still be interference, possibly giving that religion a huge advantage. Even if there was only one religion at the time, it would still affect future development. A lone religion can still be given up on, or changed, or fractured.

Who was in charge before the Ferengi got there, and who will be in charge after Voyager has canonized the Ferengi?

Of course the events happen in the exact way they need to (including Voyager's extremely poor security measures), to be able to send the two Ferengi back and not be stuck with them on Voyager, and for Voyager to not be able to use the wormhole.

Why didn't they go through the wormhole ASAP? Especially considering that Janeway stopped caring that much about non-interference, and took a huge risk to avoid 15 months of travel. Here she had the chance to skip 73 years.

In terms of non-interference, getting Voyager out of the Quadrant would be the best thing they could do. With your additional data, maybe Starfleet could send a science mission to figure out how to more reliably use this wormhole.

S03E06 – Remember

Starfleet needs some protocols on how to deal with telepathic visitors.

S03E07 – Sacred Ground

I miss DS9's serialization.

With these episodes, even if they eventually end up somewhere interesting; it's not engaging to start from scratch with yet another mystery and another random civ, where presumably nothing that happens matters, past end of the episode.

If it's supposed be about character building and watching how they act in different circumstances, they're not building them well.

With Janeway going on about her responsibilities as a Captain, it makes me think about what she's screwed up so far. If she would at least carry some guilt and/or a desire to become better, then it could be interesting to watch her try to redeem herself. The most we've seen of that was the hint of emotions after decombobulating Tuvix. And then no one mentions him anymore, not even Tuvok or Neelix.

I was starting to like this episode in the first waiting room scene, because they were at least challenging her assumptions. But it didn't go anywhere good from there. What was the point of the episode? That you should believe stuff for no reason?

If these aliens had any hostile intentions, they'd be screwed. Once again, they send the two highest ranking officers away from Voyager.

S03E08E09 – Future's End

Another time travel event where they happen to go all the way across the galaxy, to the one planet that everyone's familiar with. Time travel is a stretch in any case, but they're making it a little too easy for themselves to do a story about present day Earth.

"Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris, you're with me. Mr. Kim, you have the bridge". Oh, okay, so they just send all the highest ranking officers away.

Future Starfleet seems to be even more incompetent than the 24th century's. The time police show up and shoot themselves into a crash landing further back in time, and fail to prevent their technology from being captured. Which you'd think would be the top concern of everyone in the time police.

I suppose it could be that he wasn't really any more of Captain than Kim was, merely the best of what they had left.

But how is the technology not set to self-destruct and eliminate any possibility that some random hunter-gatherer could gain access to it? How is 29th century encryption not unbreakable in the 20th?

Why did Kim stop just because the guy threatened to kill Janeway, disobeying Janeway's order and the whole point of their mission? And then why does Torres convince him to further risk disrupting time and all of their families, by bringing Voyager down? Rather than tell Kim he needs to get back to doing what he was supposed to be doing.

Why doesn't Janeway reprimand him, rather than commend him when she's back on Voyager?

That guy probably wasn't even time police. Why would people concerned with the preservation of the timeline send someone back in time to alter events in their own history, unless someone from the future had already gone back to alter events? Why go after a 24th century ship, when you should be looking for what came from your own time, or your future? If they assume that no one went back in time, then the explosion was already a part of their timeline, and they risk screwing up everything that happened since, if they try to stop it.

At most, they should've been focusing on their own immediate past, and how to minimize the explosion's impact on their present with minimal changes to history.

Why didn't Starling send a hologram of himself?

Chakotay used to dodge asteroids for a semester. A.k.a. he kept deliberately flying towards asteroids, rather than easily avoid them.

They can beam Starling from orbit, but they're going into the desert in a regular old truck? That should've been a hint that something wasn't right.

So are they not going to undo the time travel that happened 30 years further into the past? They're going to pretend that modern computers are all created because of time travel, and that the scientific and technological advances in the previous decades didn't cause it?

And the holodoctor running on 29th century technology is not a problem? I'm guessing Braxton stole that timeship.

Maybe Braxton is Starling. Maybe this entire two-parter played out in a future tech holodeck, as a way for Starling/Braxton to cover his tracks. And he picked Voyager because they're so far removed from Earth, which makes it easier to control how this event is eventually recorded in history.

S03E10 – Warlord

This would've been a good time to bring up Tuvix, and how maybe Neelix had gotten some more combat awareness from him.

S03E11 – The Q and the Grey

What does Q need with a womb?­

Does everyone automatically become Q by entering the continuum? Or how do they not die instantly when taking part in a Q war? Surely Q could have created a billion humanoids to clog up the battlefield with, if that actually makes a difference.

S03E12 – Macrocosm

So why are they deleting the Doctor's program every time he leaves sickbay? Especially now with the portable emitter, which has him running on a separate system, leaving his original system idle. Why can't there be two?

S03E13 – Fair Trade

Still sloppy security, especially after they've been made aware of a murder possibly involving their crew. I was hoping they were watching Neelix, to see what he would do, instead of it simply being that easy for someone to mess with critical systems that they've never been assigned to.

Why couldn't they e.g. ask the computer about weapons transported off of Voyager? Given that weapons are detected by default.

Neelix is an accessory to murder, and two weeks of scrubbing the deck is all that follows?

S03E14 – Alter Ego

Why did they send Tuvok, rather than someone else while he kept distracting her?

S03E15 – Coda

Janeway and Chakotay are off on their own again. Unless all of that was fake.

S03E16 – Blood Fever

Why does Torres say "I am… half Klingon" to the Vulcan, but not that she's half human? Is there a specific incompatibility between Klingons and Vulcans that there isn't between humans and Vulcans?

Finally, some doctor-patient confidentiality.

Quite primitive climbing equipment. Couldn't they have a point-to-point transporter setup, or personal flying gear?

You'd think Starfleet would have a way of dealing with this Vulcan telepathic rape disorder, after 200 plus years.

S03E17 – Unity

Scouting for a shortcut through space? What's blocking their way?

An interesting look into what happens post-assimilation. But did Voyager help Alpha Quadrant races enslave races and species from the rest of the galaxy? Advertently or in, they don't seem that bothered about what happened.

S03E18 – Darkling

Yes, it's the Doctor's fault when he messes up his own program, if you consider him to have agency. If a human drinks themselves into losing control, or perform brain surgery on themselves, it's still their fault what happens.

S03E19 – Rise

A bad premise, which is difficult to ignore and not have the rest of the episode made pointless by.

Unless those asteroids are cloaked or traveling at very high warp speeds, there's no reason for Voyager to wait around for them in orbit, as if they're a satellite defense system. They could go out and obliterate them with however much force is necessary. Rather than wait until the last moment, and having to pull their punches and/or increase the chance that something will go wrong.

Or they could simply tractor beam them off of target. If they return to their original trajectories, they're definitely not natural.

And then they get the cheat codes to defeat the alien ship in just the minute they need them.

S03E20 – Favorite Son

Assuming the story to be true, is no one going to take issue with their culture of interstellar rape?

Feels like a TOS episode.

S03E21 – Before and After

Harry, let's meet your second wife.

https://youtu.be/MJEAGd1bQuc

So Andrew is 1/4th Ocampan, but he still ages about 15 times as fast as a human?

Other than all that weirdness, it's mostly a good episode. Although I'm not sure what was meant to be going on, when Kes went back in time to before the point where she was rescued. Did she become unborn, and then a whole other timeline played out where she did get rescued?

S03E22 – Real Life

For an "it was all just a lucid dream" plot, it was alright.

S03E23 – Distant Origin

I liked the episode for the most part, but hasn't Starfleet already established that all humanoid species have a common origin? Why would this particular alien be a special case?

It doesn't help the story that they treat evolution as something that only depends on time. What does the computer know about the evolutionary pressures on a world that the Federation has never been to?

S03E24 – Displaced

Whoever these guys are, they really know how to waste their leverage, maybe more so than Starfleet.

At least this time. Although why simply "disable the translocator", why not grab yourselves some new technology? They're the ones who chose to interfere with your civilization, there's no Prime Directive issue here.

Same with the previous episode, where you got hold of that personal cloak.

S03E25 – Worst Case Scenario

Again there's an issue that should be solvable by immediately cutting power to the holodeck.

It turns out that the holodeck is one of the most powerful weapons they have, maybe second only to destroying the warp core. If they can't make it secure, then maybe it shouldn't be used for recreational purposes at all, and only under highly monitored conditions.

I'm not that into the holonovel plots, but I was starting to like the idea of this as a training scenario. I would've preferred to see that play out, instead of yet another holodeck gone amok story.

S03E26S04E01 – Scorpion

Finally, someone's destroying the Borg, and the first thing Janeway thinks is how do we help preserve the Borg and the threat they pose to everyone? If there ever was a time for non-interference, this would be it.

At least figure out more about this enemy of your enemy, before you decide to treat as a friend one of the worst enemies you've ever had.
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Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:08:22 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S04E02-S04E26

Spoiler
S04E02 – The Gift

I'm a bit annoyed that they had all of Borg space ahead of them, and the only thing that happened was that they traded one hitchhiker for another. While the Kazon and a Cardassian pervert chased them for two seasons. Thousands of civilizations, vs. some carjackers.

S04E03 – Day of Honor

Glad to see them offer help without doing it to help themselves, or as some contrived balance of nature thing.

But what do you mean limited supplies? Other than the boost from Delta Quadrant Wesley, you've traveled well over a thousand light years under your own power, and done quite a lot of other stuff without much of a problem. Replicating up a self-sufficient settlement for a few thousand people shouldn't be that big of deal. You don't need to give up anything, if you can find a planet with a stable enough environment to support solar power generation indefinitely.

S04E04 – Nemesis

23 minutes dedicated to a malfunctioning universal translator.

KIM: There's too much atmospheric radiation from weapons fire. We can't scan the surface.

What?

If that's explained by all the primitive shooting we saw being fake, and in no way an accurate representation of what was really going on, then was Chakotay about to conveniently find a military spaceship he could do an orbital bombing run with?

I'm not going to call this a bad episode. On its own it's alright. But it doesn't make sense in the context of the series.

If the aliens can capture Chakotay out of his shuttle, then surely their actual war uses a lot more advanced tech than what we see, and there should be a lot more to the training program. Or maybe this isn't a war. Some random crime syndicate captured Chakotay, and all they want is your loyalty. But then what was all that radiation about?

Did the other faction lie about what was happening on the surface? I guess Voyager is ignoring whatever's going on on the planet for their own convenience, but wouldn't Chakotay insist on investigating further?

S04E05 – Revulsion

Good holoplot.

The other plot was basically a blueprint for Rule 34.

S04E06 – The Raven

So now her skin/nanoimplants produce a shield?

And then they wait patiently for her to find her way off of the ship, making sure to keep their weapons at a minimal setting, and not trying anything else like beaming her into space, or removing all the oxygen around her and encasing her in a force field.

S04E07 – Scientific Method

An alright plot. Although I wonder why Voyager? What results can they get from this random alien species that would be readily translatable to their own society and species, if they're not doing it for sadistic pleasure?

S04E08E09 – Year of Hell

So presumably, this is a completely different "Year of Hell" to the one where Kes was still around, and hadn't mutated into a superbeing that could kick them 10 years away from Borg space.

I like having villains use time travel. Realistically, they should do it at least as much.

But I'm not sure about the implementation. It's quite vague. We must've been watching multiple different timelines in the first part, because if the imperium never existed, they wouldn't have been chasing Voyager to begin with. Etc.

Why doesn't the Doctor relieve Janeway of duty, when she keeps failing to heed his medical orders?

The Captain is always right? That's a terrible guideline. With Tuvok being the current first officer, he should know it's his place to challenge the Captain.

Or rather, why does the Doctor wait so long before he does it?

I'm not sure if the writers are trying to portray Janeway as a badass, or as insane. If they're going for badass, you don't get credit for going right into the dangers, if there are never any consequences that last more than one scene.

At the point she's relieved, is it not Tuvok's duty to take over as Captain? What does lacking a security team have to do with it? Is she going to knock out Tuvok for doing his duty?

How can you catch up to something that exists outside of spacetime? Does "temporal shielding" mean that you're somehow syncing with their movements through time?

Bit of a fluff ending. But I'm going to note that they referenced replicating wine from a specific year.

S04E10 – Random Thoughts

Ignoring that they have selectively ignored the laws of others before, and assuming that they have to always let themselves be subject to the whims of local law enforcement; how much time do they spend on studying the laws of a society, before they visit it?

There's no reason to expect that the laws will be fair. If they tell you that you'll face the death penalty for having walked within 10 steps of a sacred rock in middle of the street, are you simply going to try to find a loophole?

An abdominal stabbing death doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Did Voyager try to save her?

Tuvok's investigative technique seems quite reckless.

I liked Seven berating the Captain for how she casually exposes the crew to severe risks.

S04E11 – Concerning Flight

Finally someone who knows how to use beaming offensively.

It might've been more fun if the holocharacter was the other Leonardo (not DiCaprio).

How much does a hologram produced by a personal emitter weigh?

S04E12 – Mortal Coil

Probably should sort out the DNR conditions for everyone.

S04E13 – Waking Moments

The lucid dream plots are better.

If still a bit wishy washy. Was there no kind of telepathic shielding they could've used? Presumably, there's some field that they're all exposed to.

S04E14 – Message in a Bottle.

They're being very lenient with Seven.

Once again they're deliberately deleting the Doctor from their systems. Paris even asks Kim to create a new EMH from scratch. How does that make any sense?

The only reason I could see for not simply sending a copy to the Alpha Quadrant without removing the original, is the need for the continuity. But the same EMH profile is already running on multiple starships, right? If you don't see a problem with that, then it should be fine to boot up another EMH with the default factory settings.

S04E15 – Hunters

They keep disregarding what this civilization says, so no, they don't always follow the laws of others when they enter their territory.

S04E16 – Prey

It really seems like a design flaw, to not be able to lock people up without worrying about temporary losses of force fields. Replicate up a gate, or some handcuffs, at least.

Glad to see Janeway try to protect the innocent non-crewmember. But it's weird that this is the same Captain who basically declared war on the entire species for the sake of her own convenience, at the start of the season arc. Is this her way of saying that she regrets allying with the Borg?

And then there's a very mild reaction to Seven basically throwing someone off of the ship to their death. Or worse.

S04E17 – Retrospect

So they're trading away Federation technology now?

"There's no doubt that Seven was the victim of a brutal assault".

I'm glad the others immediately undercut him, talking about the fallibility of memory and telling him he needs corroborative evidence.

But why would would the Doctor be the one to take this stance, of unquestioningly believing a repressed memory that could've been fabricated as it was being recovered? Was there a particular Doctor that his program had been based on, that somehow won out against the entirety of 24th century medical knowledge?

In trying to expand his programming, did he pick up some medical mumbo jumbo from 20th century popular culture?

While throughout the episode, everyone seems to have forgotten about Seven's past as a Borg, other than her current Borg tech. Her more distant past seems as likely a reason as anything that she'd lash out, and be uncomfortable with medical examinations. I thought at first the story was going to be about how Kovin had known Seven from when she was still in the collective. But then Paris shows up.

Which means there should've been several more people that they could've talked to, including Kovin's assistant. With Seven's memory being a basis for a broader investigation, rather something that has the Doctor immediately conclude.

Kovin's death and their collective guilt aside, Seven did assault him. If any Starfleet officer did that, well, they'd probably get away with it, as Worf has demonstrated. But they should be locked up.

S04E18E19 – The Killing Game

Another "holodeck as an excuse to not be a sci-fi show" plot. It already looks like it's going to be a bad episode, and then there's a threat of more singing. How long will it be before something worth caring about happens?

Why is there never a holodeck story set in the 21st, 22nd, 23rd or early 24th century? Why is it always Earth? Except some fragmented Klingon side stories.

22 minutes.

Then they start manipulating the holodeck, but only to poke people out of their trances, not really taking advantage of this being a holodeck setting.

Then they simply give away Federation technology, gaining nothing for the Federation, only buying their own freedom. Behaving very much like Seska.

S04E20 – Vis a Vis

Paris having a midseries crisis.

At least the replicators seem to have caught up with the rest of the ship now.

Why is it so easy to steal shuttles off of starships?

S04E21 – The Omega Directive

I'm not sure if both being so secretive and destroying data is helpful, when another random civ could create more of these particles, and the data gathered could make things easier the next time. What would've happened if Janeway was dead?

What would've happened if someone else entirely had captured Voyager, when the computer detected the particles? The computer doesn't seem to recognize when the ship's been captured, so could end up handing top secret knowledge to whoever's in charge, if that's what it's meant to do when the next officer takes over.

What if this had started a war between the Federation and this civ that you basically swept in and destroyed the greatest scientific achievement of? Would no one be allowed to know why the war started?

If secrecy is as important as it was being portrayed as at first, what's going to happen after this; are they all going to have their memories erased? Or is Janeway going to blow up Voyager the moment she suspects there's a chance they'll be captured? Is she going to kill the crew and erase the EMH once they've successfully brought her home?

And are they going to do nothing to help this other civilization? Back to Prime Directive as normal, after closing out the convenient exemption that allows them to do whatever they want?

S04E22 – Unforgettable

There's the usual scanning of the atmosphere only after arriving in it without spacesuits, and the gravity remaining on while the ship is falling apart.

How does she block being scanned by instruments, when they can see, hear, and carry her?

Seems like her culture is rape culture. Someone who knows everything about you, then tells you they're in love with you and acts upset when you don't reciprocate, and in any case makes sure you don't remember what they did to you.

You could throw her in the brig, replicate up some paper to write down everything you know about her on. Then wait and see if you forget why she's in the brig. Maybe put the notes in a lockbox with a timer.

Why do they keep letting her have access to their systems, when they know very little about her? At least set up an independent sensor system.

They've granted her asylum, but they ask no questions about the runaway she claims to have been after while Chakotay was to have fallen in love with her. Why would he support her capturing that runaway, but also protect her from being captured as a runaway? When she brings it up, she's showing no remorse about what she did. It's like a Nazi running away from the Nazis, and then chatting with you about the good old times of hunting Jews.

Voyager goes along with them deleting any reference to themselves from Voyager's systems, as if Voyager were the ones intruding on their society rather than the other way around. And as if Voyager has no reason to suspect that these aliens could take advantage of them in the future. Including leaving hidden agents on Voyager.

In the end, Chakotay does write things down on paper. Is that him disobeying Janeway's order to go along with the deletions?

S04E23 – Living Witness

And?

S04E24 – Demon

Was the previous episode all about the Doctor's backup unit? Like it literally had nothing to do with the rest of the series? Except apparently we know that the Federation won't become involved in that particular region of space, and no one's going to blow up the galaxy, in the next 700-ish years.

Did the Voyager crew not know about the backup unit, given how they act like they could be stuck without a Doctor when his program is running somewhere else?

So they do have mobile transporters.

Breathing the atmosphere is one thing, but I'd be more suspicious about how their skin can withstand pizza baking temperatures.

Why are they treating DNA as if it inherently contains memories?

S04E25 – One

A month to get through, a year to get around it… That doesn't make sense from the look of the model. It's no taller than it is deep, it shouldn't take 12 times as long. And the effective speed limit is probably lower within this very dense region of space, than outside of it. Like flying through a giant storm instead of around it.

Which parts of the episode were real? 11 minutes without life support can't have been a real problem in itself, unless the air was being sucked out of Voyager.

This is a difficult episode to look up.

S04E26 – Hope and Fear

How to cook forty humans.

Just beam Arturis into an oxygen-free environment until he passes out, don't approach him at all. Why give him time to react to your regular old routine of troops standing around not using their weapons, when he's obviously not your average villain?

Of course, he's right about Janeway's absurd deal with the Borg. And no, she didn't have to act that quickly. She could've spent more time to observe and think things through. All she knew was that Species 8472 was a threat to the Borg, and to Voyager because they stick their nose wherever they can. While the Borg were a proven threat to everyone.

Even if they could be confident that Species 8472 would move on to the rest of the galaxy, after having defeated the only civilization that declared war on them, there's no reason to assume that they would be worse than the otherwise seemingly unstoppable Borg. Species 8472 merely happened to be the paper to the Borg's rock.

Janeway, and the crew who failed to stop her, became responsible for consequences of what the Borg do past the point where they could've been destroyed. If the Prime Directive means anything now, it means that they should do everything possible to prevent and undo the damage that the Borg does, rather than act as if all that matters is to keep going towards home.

It's a shame that he went for poetic justice and made things more difficult for himself. It could've been a great episode, if they finally had to face some significant consequences for their more reckless actions.

Do they expect us to care about character development, when entire civilizations are assimilated and they show zero remorse or guilt, past the point where they escape the one guy questioning them about it? And sentence him to assimilation, when they could've beamed him out.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:09:58 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S05-S05E11

If you were wondering which Star Trek season I had the longest comments for, this is it (at the time this was posted).

Spoiler
S05E01 – Night

How is it that they can figure out where in the galaxy they are, and read all kinds of signals across vast regions of space, but they don't know what kind of space they're heading towards, until they're already there?

How about putting the crew on a stasis rotation, to minimize boredom?

If you're a spacefaring civilization, wouldn't the easy thing to do to get rid of waste, be to dump it into a star? Apparently, they're not that low tech, if their shields and firepower can match Voyager's. If they don't have the vortex orbiting close to one of their planets, then going to a star shouldn't be significantly more expensive.

Now is when they decide to mutiny? When the Captain finally starts admitting to mistakes and thinking about other people? Not when she's taking shortcuts that destroy civilizations? Fucking hell. I was all set on having more hope for the rest of the series and that they're going to make some serious efforts to redeem themselves.

You could've made those suggestions about other ways to accomplish the mission, without making a grand stand about how the Captain is always right except when she thinks she's not.

And it still seems like a rash decision to destroy a stable wormhole. You could've sent a delegation to their world to see if anyone would pick you up on that offer, before shutting down what could be a uniting force for civilizations across the void. You didn't even have to directly confront the other ship, if you could wait him out until he has to leave back home on business. You were prepared to travel for two more years through the void; you could go back the way you came in less time, and return with more resources for the job at hand.

But then they kill him. Why couldn't they have taken a long break at that point, to further consider their options? If that particular ship's crew were the only ones who did this, what are you destroying the vortex for? You already solved the problem.

They spend months being bored, hoping for any kind of event to happen. Then when something does happen, they rush through it and try to be done with it as quickly as possible.

200,000 kilometers from the boundary of a stellar void that's 2500 light years deep? What does that mean?

They're apparently nowhere close to the dead alien's world, and we don't really know that he was the only one using the vortex. Someone could now have had a vital shipment of medicine made impossible. Along with a million other vital shipments.

Never mind the aliens dying from radiation poisoning, who are still stuck with all the waste that was dumped previously.

At one point, I thought this was looking like a good episode and a promising path for the season. But it might be one of the worst episodes of the series.

S05E02 – Drone

So because of a future mobile hologram emitter, this Borg is more advanced in every way? Has the Doctor been utilizing all the technology that's in there?

"The Borg are the most destructive force we've ever encountered", said by the Starfleet Captain who decided to save them.

I'm not sure how to feel about this episode. Did Braxton plan this?

S05E03 – Extreme Risk

What's so special about this probe? Not letting Federation technology fall into the hands of others, okay. But isn't there a self-destruct for that?

More Malons, more radioactive waste dumping crews. Are we going to see any non-radiation dumping parts of their society?

Shouldn't Voyager be trying to reach out to them about eliminating that waste, saving other potential victims from their dumping? Presumably, the cost of dumping waste has recently gone up significantly, since they killed the guy who could undercut everyone else.

S05E04 – In the Flesh

Well, they got the number of Ferengi in Starfleet wrong.

What does Seven know about diplomacy with Species 8472? The Borg tried to assimilate them, and Voyager attacked and threatened them, offering them nothing.

Janeway's talking about their first contact with them as if it was routine.

Chakotay tells them she's not looking to start a war (again), while she's planning the attack.

Then she threatens them again, acting as if she has nothing to apologize for, as if their mere presence in this distant part of the galaxy is an affront to the Federation.

Ultimately reaching a diplomatic solution, which is good. But I wonder if the aliens were telepathically communicating with each other about how stuck up these humans are. And putting on a show, trying to placate them as best they could, when it became clear they would refuse to admit fault, but were open to non-violence.

Why not go to Earth with them at this point, if they have superior transportation, and make it an official deal? Offer them an alliance against the Borg.

S05E05 – Once Upon a Time

This week on Star Trek Kidz, mommy battles the ion monster.

Did Ensign Wildman copy her holonovel save files to Voyager?

S05E06 – Timeless

Wait, they crashed at full impulse? Up to thousands of times the speed of a regular meteor impact? And they're encased in ice, not the planet's crust?

Maybe Voyager doesn't have as much mass as your typical mass extinction event, and maybe that planet is all fluids, and somehow the ship floated back up. But that still sounds like a whole lot of force.

KIM: We can do this, Captain. Put me on that shuttle. I'll get Voyager through the Slipstream. What choice do we have? Take the drive offline? Months of work for nothing?

Congratulations on completing the sunk costs fallacy drive.

No mention of the civilization that was destroyed to allow for them to obtain that drive, in their celebrations.

Chakotay and "I go by Harry" wanting to mess with the timeline just for the sake of Voyager, despite them apparently having been causally linked with the Federation for up to 15 years now, that's fair enough. That's in keeping with what we've seen from their characters before, almost having a divine reverence for Captain Janeway. And more things could've happened to sway them further from caring about people outside of Voyager.

But why does the Doctor go along with it? He previously drew the line at decombobulating Tuvix into Tuvok and Neelix. Was his programming or hardware damaged?

KIM: This timeline only exists because I made a mistake fifteen years ago.

That's basically true in all possible timelines.

Then it's La Forge's turn to do the traditional "please keep doing what you're doing while I'm pointing guns at you, and fail to act to stop what you're obviously going to do anyway, in spite of the superior technology at my disposal".

Apparently, the first change led them to crash at a tiny fraction of their original timeline speed. How they didn't easily survive that crash, given that the ship and crew weren't disintegrated at full impulse, I don't know.

Or maybe Chakotay doesn't know anything about physics.

S05E07 – Infinite Regress

What do you need to try to disable the device for, when you can beam it? Just don't put it back together again. Or, beam out the power source.

JANEWAY: I'd like to find species 6339. They may be able to help us treat you.

And you might be able to help them, right?

Put Seven in stasis?

If they had straight up offered an alliance with Species 6339, they could've talked about how to combine their technologies to use against the Borg. Instead of possibly now having left them with nothing to use against the Borg. While Voyager continues to travel away from the Borg that they saved and created the need for further resistance against.

The needs of Voyager outweigh the needs of everyone else in the galaxy, seems to the moral of the story for the last couple of episodes.

If they had flipped the order of "In the Flesh" and "Timeless", they could've e.g. shown that Species 8472 did in fact attack Earth without Voyager's intervention, making more of a case for why they needed to do what they did. Instead of acting as if anyone who gets in the way of Janeway deserve what's coming to them.

S05E08 – Nothing Human

Curious episode.

In a way, it could be especially easy to dismiss concerns about benefiting from the suffering of others, since they're so far removed from the locations where it happened. What's done is done, there aren't many people around to see them use this medical knowledge and somehow see it as legitimization of what happened in history. Nor many people around to offer them alternative solutions. And they're talking to a holographic representation of a monster, not the monster itself. If the Doctor hadn't used that particular representation to search through their databases with, no one would've known enough about the circumstances to take issue with them.

They're all somewhat happily benefiting from Borg technology and knowledge. Despite how that was obtained, and how much closer they are to those abuses, both in space and time. That's what Seven points out, even if that wasn't her intention.

Conversely, Torres says she doesn't want the treatment. The Doctor should be more understanding of his patient's wishes. He should've made clear from the start, that it's up to her what treatment she undergoes, and that he will respect her wishes. At least as far as it's possible for her to communicate those wishes.

Strange how that hologram tries to justify what it doesn't remember doing.

It's a bit absurd for a Maquis to take the moral high ground on not making innocents suffer for their cause. Let alone for members of the Voyager crew. Why are they so worried about the metaphorical implications, compared to what they do directly to other people and civilizations?

They could've talked more about the consequences for the alien that's attached itself to Torres.

Then they delete the program, along with the research, sort of eating their cake and having it. Will this lead to future preventable deaths on Voyager? Will they make the case that the research should be deleted from all Starfleet computers? Or might this research even be restored to Voyager, when it finally reaches a Federation spacedock?

Notably, they created a very accurate holographic representation of the alien that they otherwise knew nothing about. So it's easy enough for them to scan objects and subjects, and have them configured as if they were the real thing.

Couldn't they have brute forced a solution, by running thousands of simulations in the computer? Or does it have to happen in real time on the holodeck, one simulation at a time?

S05E09 – Thirty Days

An ocean in space that's bigger than the Atlantic and Pacific combined, and you're asking what's holding it together? That alone says it's bigger than most asteroids. But it's actually bigger than Ceres (with maybe 50% the density). Gravity doesn't only exist on collapsing spaceships.

The more significant question is why isn't the surface frozen? How much hotter is the core, or how hot and close is the nearest star?

Then they find a device producing artificial gravity. Which apparently explains how the planetoid was created. But not much else.

At least there are finally some sort of consequences for an officer. Though it would've shown a bit more character, if he had fully accepted the personal consequences for doing what he judged to be the right thing to do. It could've been a lot worse. He could've been extradited and left there for his punishment.

Rank seems somewhat meaningless anyway, below Captain. Seven gets to act like an officer.

It doesn't help the story that they once again rush through everything. They had one conversation with one politician, and didn't wait to see what the results were. They assumed they'd do the wrong thing, and decided to immediately leave.

S05E10 – Counterpoint

Helping telepaths escape persecution; good.

Kidnapping a scientist to pressure him into helping you; uhm.

Being confronted about the Prime Directive;

"Well, let's just say I usually go with my instincts, and sort it out later at the board of inquiry. Those Admirals and I were on a first-name basis, you know".

She flat out thinks of herself as being above the law.

Good ending. Although I'm not sure what happened with Tuvok during that inspection.

S05E11 – Latent Image

The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth.

Good episode. I'd almost call it great. But if they can create a random Cardassian doctor out of nowhere, can't they boot up another EMH for those type of emergencies, where Superman has to be in two places at once?

I saw one comment complain about Janeway acting like a psychopath and not herself in this episode. I didn't see anything that was out of character for her.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:10:38 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S05E12-S06E01

Spoiler
S05E12 – Bride of Chaotica

Hah, Romanov.

An alright episode. It's the kind that's so stupid that it's funny. But it doesn't work for the longer scenes.

S05E13 – Gravity

Taking the universal translators offline just to have the main alien speak like a child.

And then Paris tries to get Tuvok to have sex with her.

Was the "give up all hope already" subplot supposed to be a hint at the time difference? How about some beard growth?

Those people in blue who appear sporadically, like when the Doctor needs someone lifted into surgical beds; is that their only function? Are they not science officers who could play a role in these type of situations? Did all the science officers die at the start of the series, or did they never bring any, other than biologist Ensign Wildman?

Is the Doctor optronically grooming them, while Paris grooms the alien? Turns out not, because the Doctor's been off for two months.

I'd call this a lost opportunity on time dilation. All that time hiding in a force field from some aliens, who kept spending resources on attacking them for an unspecified reason. While Voyager barely interacted with their counterparts. And the flashbacks were misplaced, being centered around a present day Tuvok rejecting a random female alien crying and yelling at him.

S05E14 – Bliss

SEVEN: Computer, access all log entries recorded by Captain Janeway on Stardate 52542.
COMPUTER: Access to those files is restricted.

Then immediately after Seven moves a chip from one slot to another;

COMPUTER: Access granted.

Later;

SEVEN: Computer, erect a level ten forcefield around Engineering. Lock out the command controls with Borg encryption code two nine four.

This time, the crappiness of Starfleet security saves the day.

Not sure how the Doctor determines what amounts to doing no harm. He'd prefer to have the entity that's been eating starships and people for hundreds of thousands of years, to continue to do it indefinitely, rather than kill it. Maybe some sort of Prime Directive programmed into him. Although we've seen him deviate from that before. Or after.

Then Janeway decides to have the entity starve to death, by putting warning signs around it.

But overall, a good episode.

S05E15E16 – Dark Frontier

Finally, they beam a bomb.

Starfleet knew about the Borg 20 years ago? 8 years before TNG?

I had assumed Raven's story to be that they were some random adventurers who happened to follow a Borg cube one time, with immediate disastrous results. Not that they were studying them full time and had them all figured out, as if they had watched all the other Borg episodes before they started.

As for Voyager's mission; you can freely beam in and out, but you're going to do it in a way that you know is likely to fail because you're pushing up against a deadline? And you can do all that, but you're neither going to try to rescue any more drones, nor destroy the Borg cube to ensure that they don't help assimilate more worlds?

I think they're still heavily underutilizing beaming. They're beaming over with weapons, so it's not like they're fooling them by beaming over with no dangerous technology. How about beaming probes with explosives that are set to detonate if not deactivated? Don't step inside the Borg cube at all, minimize your risk, maximize their risk by having failsafes in place if they block beaming.

Obviously, the Borg Construct is spouting bullshit to try to sway Seven to their cause, whatever the reason she doesn't want to assimilate her. But wouldn't Seven know all about Picard by now? And Hugh. And those people who formed their own collective. If I was trying to teach an ex-drone about humanity and individuality, other examples of de-Borging would be a priority. She should know she's not the first to leave the collective.

The Borg Queen doesn't seem to be of much use to the Borg, if her presence means that all the drones can be stopped by pointing one gun at them.

They become less scary the more they delve into them. The Borg don't really adapt that much. They'll slightly adjust their shields and sensors. They can easily take on most civilizations, but once you know where the backdoor is, you can keep using it. You can practically walk right up to them and stab them in the CPU.

The problem is Starfleet, and their associates, who treat the Borg as something to study rather than an active threat. Until one day, their giant, nondomesticated pet bites them.

S05E17 – The Disease

"Our journey could easily last several generations". Well, not after cutting your travel time by 10 years, 2 years, 10 years, and 15 years. One and a half generations at most.

CHAKOTAY: Care to tell us how you got here?
STOWAWAY: Through a docking port.
TUVOK: Your entry would have triggered an intruder alert.
STOWAWAY: Your technology's easy to circumvent.

That's true. Though I'd consider it user error, more than a tech problem.

TAL: There's a nebula about three hundred thousand kilometres from here. I've been watching it on the sensors for the past few days. Oh, I would love to see it with my own eyes.

How tiny is this nebula?

Again I don't know why the Doctor isn't more respectful of his patient's wishes. As long as the patient is of sound mind and not a threat to themselves or others, if they don't want medicine, what's the problem?

I liked the ship.

S05E18 – Course: Oblivion

Is this ship also a "duplicate" made out of demon goo? How have they been going about repairing it up until this point, and not noticed that something was off?

Building that warp drive, which is beyond anything the other crew have accomplished; that must've involved a lot of very precise subatomic engineering. Where did they get their materials from, why did it all end up disintegrating along with them?

Did they pick up no additional resources, and somehow find that they had replicator stocks full of a substance from an unknown source? It's not like they came straight from the Demon class planet. It took them a while to go through recent missions before making the connection.

In a way it's okay that they didn't survive, and that no one knew what happened, even if that makes this a somewhat irrelevant episode with no real consequences, and a cheap way to kill off characters.

But it's quite a ridiculous coincidence that they were able to make a distress call, and then fell apart, at the exact points needed for Voyager to catch up to them, but then only see the leftovers. And for them to be along the same path, given the different years they've had.

S05E19 – The Fight

Next week; dastardly space. Only one half of a Borg cube has ever survived an encounter with it.

Them being in a different kind of space, yet again, okay. But they don't do anything with it. They don't explore the physical nature of it. Chakotay may as well have been in a coma the entire episode, while Voyager carried on as normal.

S05E20 – Think Tank

SEVEN: The Hazari are hired to capture and deliver alien vessels.
PARIS: Bounty hunters.
SEVEN: Yes.
KIM: So who hired them?
CHAKOTAY: The Malon, the Devore? We've made our share of enemies here.

Not "here". They're about 25 000 and 10 000 light years away, at this point.

So assuming that the story that the Costanzaians are presenting is true, they're possibly the most powerful entity in the Quadrant. They can reach back and forth across nearly 40 000 light years of space in less than 3 years (unless the Vidiians are everywhere, which they don't seem to be), and can randomly help someone fend off the Borg.

They're quite lacking in skepticism this time.

I wanted to like this episode, but the cheesy dialogue was putting me off.

S05E21 – Juggernaut

More Malon radiation dumping crews?

25 000 light years away from the (destroyed) wormhole that went in the other direction, that only one ship had access to, which was a really big deal for some reason.

What the hell are they dumping, if they can cross interstellar space, and if that isn't empty enough of a place for them to dump it in? Or how are they producing so much of the waste that there isn't enough empty space for it to occupy?

FESEK: Listen to me very carefully. The fact that we're still here means the ship hasn't exploded, yet. When it does, over four trillion isotons of antimatter waste is going to ignite. Everything within three light years will be destroyed.

I don't know what an isoton is, but they're basically saying that one of their garbage trucks is a more powerful weapon than most of the purposefully made weapons in the galaxy. How are they producing that waste? Why are they not trying to utilize that power, instead of dumping it everywhere?

Does the Malon civilization exist in subspace? Is that why we're not seeing this civilization despite its extremely large footprint, other than through their waste disposal units?

All the moralizing is somewhat pointless, if you're not going to show an interest in figuring out what the rest of their society is like, or how it was possible for you to run into Malons this far from where you originally encountered them.

Fesek claims that he's taking part in waste dumping out of a sense of duty to protect his homeworld (which happens to be Malon Prime. Is all this waste from one planet?), rather than it being a matter of private profit. Giving you the best opportunity you've had so far, to talk about how to stop the waste from being produced in the first place.

If they're really transporting the waste tens of thousands of light years, then maybe you can trade for their warp technology.

I liked the scene with Torres and Tuvok.

S05E22 – Someone to Watch Over Me

Making bets with the holodoctor, about how much you're going to work in sickbay… Isn't that betting with other people's lives? Or other people's assignments, if the Doctor has to find someone to replace Paris. It's not like the Doctor wouldn't be operating at maximum capacity, regardless.

For a romance plot; a few fun moments, but overall, meh. Humans interacting with humans in mundane ways isn't sci-fi.

As for making Seven act more like your typical human; I would say that past teaching her to not throw people out of airlocks, why? Teaching her to better understand humans, fair enough. But let individuals be individuals.

S05E23 – 11:59

So Janeway has the same pompous attitude towards her own genetic history, that STVII Picard has towards his.

It's an episode all about some random ancestor, with some other ancestor chat on the side. No time travel or alternate reality exploration to connect it. No relevance to anything.

S05E24 – Relativity

BRAXTON: We'll have to recruit her again.
DUCANE: Sir, a fourth jump? She could suffer neural damage, even temporal psychosis.

Why would future time travel affect someone who hasn't been time traveling yet?

Why would 500 year old Borg tech be better than time cop tech?

Oh, and apparently that's the real Braxton. At some point (DS9 spoiler),
Spoiler
Starling must've done an O'Brien on him and made him experience 30 years that never happened.
[close]

Or this is yet another holodeck episode.

At least they were trying to fix a problem that came from the future, this time. But the time cops still seem incompetent. If they can pick people up out of the past, why not duplicate any technology that you can find in the past, instead of recruiting someone with that technology from the past and altering their impact on the timeline? Why wouldn't you erase their memories, if you have that option? How do you not have personal cloaks? Or a simple probe to send back in time, rather than a person who has to sneak around and pretend to belong where they don't.

And how did they not manage to keep Braxton from traveling back into the past, once they'd apprehended him?

S05E25 – Warhead

So why would the weapon be confused about what it was? Was the program based on a person?

S05E26S06E01 – Equinox

Kept seeing references to this one. Let's see what it's all about.

Trap, would be my first guess.

Alternate reality crossover? Although it'd be quite the coincidence that this different crew in a different type of ship would've ended up in this region of space at a time where the others could catch up to them.

If they're from the same reality, why did the Caretaker take two Starfleet ships (of mostly humans)?

Janeway never broke the Prime Directive?

Apparently, they stole some sort of warp technology, and that's why the aliens are attacking them.

It's running on smurfs?

"How are you able to leave sickbay?" "This devi..." Aaaand it's gone.

"I've been authorized". Verify?

The first part is a good episode. But it's annoying that once again the plot has to be moved forward by poor security. I didn't even mind the Doctor being duped. He's taken himself off script and created flaws in his programming. The next step was too easy. Starting a lengthy plot of fighting the other starship and crew, which could've been more enjoyable if it happened in a different way. Like if they had had a failsafe in place, in case they were apprehended, and immediately escaped.

It shouldn't be possible for them to access any controls on Voyager. All codes they could possibly know should've been changed, and the computer should not respond to them after they've been turned into prisoners. The doors to their quarters should not open without at least setting off some kind of alarm that brings immediate attention to them. And why are they in their quarters, rather than the brig? They're mass murderers. At least chain them up.

What's stopping you from beaming them to the brig once they're on the run?

Why does Janeway immediately fire on the smurfs? You're not giving them any reason to distinguish between your crew and the Equinox crew.

So even after the fact, they don't know that this Doctor was the one who got the prisoners out.

Janeway is arguing for why they need to catch up to the Equinox, after they themselves have been killing smurfs and then gave up on diplomacy after a brief attempt, likely leading to more killings.

She also mentioned the Borg as bad guys, acting all high and mighty while yet again leaving out that she saved the Borg by allying with them against an unknown species.

RANSOM: You think this is easy for me? The sight of you on that table. But you're leaving me no choice.
SEVEN: No choice. You say that frequently. You destroy lifeforms to attain your goals, then claim that they left you no choice.

Which applies equally to Janeway.

Okay, so they're just going full on with the idea of Janeway being insane now.

What does it take for Voyager's crew to mutiny?

Why does Tuvok only voice a proper objection when Janeway finally starts making deals with the aliens? Handing over Ransom and his crew to the aliens who they've been genociding is not unreasonable. That's a place to start negotiations, rather than insist that it all has to be handled by Voyager.

I'm against the death penalty in normal circumstances. But in the case of Voyager, there's no democracy, let alone proper facilities and courts to hand prisoners over to. If the Equinox crew are to be executed for their crimes of continually murdering random aliens to power their starship, that's not as out of line as it is for Janeway to torture them for information. Torture is never justified. Execution, when other forms of justice aren't viable, is not nearly as insane as what both the Captains were doing.

"I've got their shield frequency". I need to see if the same guys wrote this as wrote STVII. Well, Berman and Braga were story writers on both. Braga wroth the screenplay and teleplay. “Equinox” does have a similar sort of reasonable start and trailing off into madness.

Then the new crewmembers, who dutifully followed an insane Captain, are going to be held to Janeway's standards from now on.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S06E02-S07E01

Spoiler
S06E02 – Survival Instinct

Who needs security when you have lots of strangers you know nothing about friends?

Wtf? Doctor do-no-harm wants to return them to the Borg collective, because apparently the only thing that matters is staying alive, quality of life means nothing?

And what about all the harm they will be contributing to, as part of the collective?

At this point. he's looking like he could be worse at terminal care than Dr. Crusher.

Then they seem perfectly healthy. What kind of brain function are they lacking, and why can't it be fixed by 24th century Federation knowledge, if you have a month to do it? Especially for the Bajoran, you should have their biology on file.

S06E03 – Barge of the Dead

Another "obey your parents" plot.

S06E04 – Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy

1000 km diameter nebula? That is tiny. This is where I'd ask what's keeping it from collapsing, if it's dense enough to be an opaque cloud up close.

You can go to the holodeck in the first place, if you want to play out scenarios. There's no need to perform brain surgery on yourself.

Maybe a good episode, but not my kind of episode.

S06E05 – Alice

"a fleet of ships, 200 000 km dead ahead". They use that figure a lot. Do they have some sort blindspot ahead of them, when they're scanning light years worth of space through subspace?

Why had they already stopped the ship at this point, if they didn't expect to find anything in their immediate path?

No one's going to question the guy's motives?

"Let's see what this neurogenic interface can do". Give you brain damage? They're being very haphazard with this technology they know nothing about.

Did the Doctor lobotomize Janeway after "Equinox"? How is she of all people taking Paris's actions so lightly?

CHAKOTAY: Captain, we have an unauthorised launch in progress.
CHAKOTAY: Seal the shuttlebay doors.
KIM: Too late, he's out.

That should never happen.

It would've been a better episode if Torres had died. I like that character more than Paris, but let there be some long term consequences from how stupidly they're all acting.

S06E06 – Riddles

After several "it's all in your head" episodes, the title on its own is putting me off.

It turns out that this episode wasn't terrible. But that's the problem with the Scooby Doo mystery plots, it gives me less reason to invest in the plots at the start of the episodes. Is that Tuvok, or some random alien who possessed his body?

Character development isn't of much interest, either, when it might not last past the end of the episode. Again there's no mention of Tuvix, even though they're repeating some of the plot.

S06E07 – Dragon's Teeth

It's a better start than they've had for a while. But suddenly they're in a wormhole, and they didn't go into it on purpose? How do they survive space travel at all?

Why is it always the females who wear high-heeled shoes, regardless of culture?

He's amazed by holograms, he doesn't recognize humans, but he recognizes a human with human skin as a Borg, because of what might as well have been jewelry?

Lucky they were pulling their punches when firing from orbit. 2000 meters should be close enough, if you were only interested in destroying whatever's on the ground.

Again they pick sides in a war they know little about. But at least it was a less blatantly obvious that they were making a huge mistake, this time.

S06E08 – One Small Step

Why did Chakotay go nuts this time?

S06E09 – The Voyager Conspiracy

Seven seems to be more machine than Data is.

I wish they had the computer set up to tell them these type of details, instead of turning Seven into some sort of oracle.

CHAKOTAY: That's quite a theory. Perhaps you haven't heard of the Jankata Accord?
SEVEN: No species shall enter another quadrant for the purpose of territorial expansion.

What?

2 hours to get a message across 5000 light years of space, okay... But then it's live communication, with no infrastructure in place?

Again they beam aboard Seven's shuttle to go face to face with her, instead of taking full advantage of having access with beams. If you can't beam Seven out, then beam everything else out, leaving her in her invisible jet.

S06E10 – Pathfinder

If anyone can break into a Starfleet facility, Barclay can. But it still seemed too easy.

If they've narrowed it down to 3 sectors, then they have no clue how to reach them, since each of Voyager's extraordinary jumps covered much more space than that. They were "hurtled across thirty sectors of space" in the previous episode, and that was one of the smaller jumps. Barclay thinks that they're 60 000 light years away, when it's closer to 30 000 light years.

This episode makes no sense. I liked all of it, except the part where they actually make contact. But since that's the main point of the episode, that ruins it. They should've come up with some way for them to track down Voyager, not simply throw a few wormholes and magically be within range when they stated the wrong targeting information.

They could've ended this episode with a failure, and then had another episode later where we learn that they figured out how use the wormholes to track Voyager, by its warp trails or something, before finally locating them.

S06E11 – Fair Haven

They decide to hog two holodecks with a permanent program? Isn't that a risk to crew morale, given the hundred or so crewmembers who might not have the same tastes as the 4 of them?

Then there's some random space storm that conveniently prevents them from going into warp, and somehow 15 hours isn't enough time for them to impulse out of the path of it.

Lots of pointless, mundane holodeck scenes.

Why did they turn off the holodeck safeties?

Then the big plot resolution is whether to save the Captain's sex hologram.

S06E12 – Blink of an Eye

I liked the episode, but it could've been fleshed out more.

Couldn't the Doctor disguise himself by being composed of light that's not in the visible spectrum? And shrink his size, so that the emitter won't be floating around as high up.

How did he charge his emitter for those years?

Where does the planet get its energy from, given that the local starlight is diffused tens of thousands of times with the time difference? Is it all from the core?

Why wouldn't the astronauts immediately be subject to the same rate of passage of time as the Voyager crew, once they're up there? Was the Doctor also "frozen in time" when he first arrived at the planet? I was sort of hoping the astronauts would see other astronauts fly right past them, after they had slowed their passage of time enough for missions with more advanced technology to happen.

S06E13 – Virtuoso

A plot all about the Doctor singing; meh.

But if he's going to leave, don't delete the program this time. Make whatever changes you need to, to distinguish it from the program that's going to be running elsewhere. Replicate up another portable holoemitter, or if you can't, you can go back to having a static holoemitter-only EMH.

S06E14 – Memorial

What is the advantage of having that long of an away mission, when the shuttles move a lot slower than Voyager?

Weird ending. Honoring their memories by letting their technology invade other people's minds.

I thought warning buoys were for things you had to leave alone for some reason. But they didn't leave it alone. They gave it new batteries so that it can be a risk for much longer than it would've otherwise. How foolproof is placing a buoy there, especially over 300 years?

The device itself could be damaged again. And/or someone could decide to make it a prison planet, putting people there against their will.

If they are going to mess with the site, how about finding some way of transferring the data to a less invasive sort of museum?

S06E15 – Tsunkatse

I liked some parts of this episode, but the resolution is disappointing.

Voyager once again waste having the upper hand,. If they know the path of the arena ship, and if they're not being pursued themselves, then they can set up traps and attack remotely. State your demands via a probe or something, rather than giving them the opportunity to fire directly back at you.

If a shuttle fighter makes that much of a difference, why aren't you launching fighters at other times? What are all the rest of the crew up to, when we see the main cast diddle?

And again the Voyager crew seem to stop caring about the situation, as soon as they break their own out of jail.

It's a culture that enslaves people from other civilizations, and has them fight to the death for their amusement. They attacked you first, going after the two who specifically chose to stay away from the whole thing, so the Prime Directive is out. If they had been kidnapped out of the stands, there would be a vague argument that they had stepped into where they shouldn't have.

S06E16 – Collective

"Shuttle computer's log, Stardate 53890.2. A Borg cube appeared in front of us. Hello, Borg cube. Meanwhile, the crew are playing poker. Oh, and then they stopped for some reason."

Then it turns out that it's a cube that's run by 5 kids. This should've been the by far easiest time they've had dealing with the Borg, but somehow they always have to be evenly matched with whatever they're faced with.

The main plot could've been about salvaging the Borg cube.

S06E17 – Spirit Folk

This is Prometheus level stupid. There's no reason to care what happens to any of the characters, when they try to reprogram the fire, rather than delete it. Everything that happens to them is 100% their own fault.

Except what Paris does to Kim, which is bordering on sexual assault.

Cutting the power is finally an option. But they refuse to use it, because the Captain's sex hologram must go on. And they still have no clue what a backup is.

This would've been a good time for Torres to disobey a reckless order.

S06E18 – Ashes to Ashes

Okay episode. Not great, but also far less frustrating than many episodes this season. And it has a neat concept, that they could've spent more time exploring.

It's illegal to bury people on Svalbard, because the bodies don't decompose in the soil (although that might change with the climate). Maybe it should be illegal to "bury" people in space, if you're not going to have them burn up in a planetary atmosphere or star.

It's a bit cheap to introduce a character that Kim supposedly has had a close relationship with, who we've never seen before.

They didn't need the combat scene at the end. They're basically saying that if she had felt like herself, Voyager would've been destroyed, taking away from the plot of her making a free choice to be with her reanimators.

The aliens attacking Voyager doesn't make them seem like good people for her to go with, either. How about sharing some of that warp tech instead, which apparently allows them to travel tens of thousands of light years in 6 months?

If one of their ships wasn't a match for Voyager, why let the guy go, when he doesn't back down and says he'll bring more firepower?

MEZOTI: Seven's letting us go to the holodeck by ourselves. She says we can run any programme we want.

Well, that's a colossal mistake, given how easily the holodeck can bug out and threaten everyone's lives.

S06E19 – Child's Play

Implode the transwarp conduit?

Then it turns out they really should've destroyed that transwarp conduit, rather than hurry up leaving, hoping for the best for the child they left behind. They even leave alone the Borg ship that they successfully damaged, so that it can be repaired and continue to be a threat to that world and others.

Voyager are quite selective about who, what and when to care (about). If Icheb's world survives, they're likely to still use children as bait for the Borg. And if Voyager hadn't intervened to save the Borg a few years ago, maybe the Borg wouldn't be around to take the bait anymore.

S06E20 – Good Shepherd

"What are you doing, murdering an alien, one at time? I'll show you how to murder aliens".

S06E21 – Live Fast and Prosper

If people are going to be that easily fooled, why pretend to be a real ship and crew who could eventually hunt you down, instead of something entirely fake? It's not like any of them could do a background check on the Federation, anyway. Claiming to be their representatives shouldn't carry any extra weight.

S06E22 – Muse

Now the show is getting self-obsessed.

S06E23 – Fury

I liked the episode until it became clear that the writers weren't going to try to make sense out of the time travel event.

It's cheating to use time travel that affects earlier parts of the series, if you're not going to tie it all up in the same episode. Or if you haven't carefully planned the event up until the point it happens, which they clearly hadn't. If the time travel isn't self-contained, it might as well be an "it was all just a dream" plot.

I was hoping Kes's mission was something better than to send her young self home, and then doing a pretty poor job of sabotaging Voyager in the past, compared to how easy it was for her at the start.

S06E24 – Life Line

Good episode.

Though I still have issues with getting rid of the EMH. They knew enough to keep a number of the Doctor's "skills" stored, while sending the rest of him away. Why not keep a baseline EMH on file?

S06E25 – The Haunting of Deck Twelve

What's Neelix heating that cauldron for?

S06E26S07E01 – Unimatrix Zero

Another infamous episode.

It wasn't that bad, accounting for what lead up to this two-parter. It's good that they're not running away from what is basically their fight, this time. But I can see how people consider the episodes a disservice to the Borg.

At least the cubes have slightly better internal security than usual. The Queen doesn't really seem to be of any use to the Borg, though. I think Voyager should save the drones that can be saved, but if the Queen starts to destroy her own ships, she's doing your job for you.

Tuvok had quite an easy time of mind-jumping into the emergent properties of the bug, right after finding out about it. How long did it take the Borg to do that? Also, shouldn't Voyager have done something to stop Seven from being linked to by the Borg, by now?

Since Seven's been involved in several Borg bugs in her past, that suggests that her circumstances aren't unique. And that there could be many other fractal collectives, or groups of individuals in hiding, throughout the Borg fleet.

If you are planning on being assimilated by the Borg, make sure to tell your sysadmin, so that they can void your access codes.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:12:12 PM
Star Trek: Voyager S07E02-S07E26

Spoiler
S07E02 – Imperfection

PARIS: With all due respect. The last time you took the Delta Flyer to confront the Borg, it ended up in a couple of thousand pieces.
JANEWAY: I intend to bring it back in one piece this time.

So how long has it been since it was destroyed? And if you can build a new one very quickly, why stop at one?

Good episode overall.

S07E03 – Drive

Another extremely dense asteroid field. With a bonus comet that's hanging out nearby.

An okay episode, but they really should be doing more worldbuilding, and Voyager should do more investigating before inserting themselves into someone else's olympics. They go from fighting the Borg, to finding several interstellar civilizations that exist as if they're entirely separate from the space Voyager very recently left behind.

Voyager launching a photon torpedo for fun emphasizes how they're not taking this seriously at all.

TORRES: Anyway, I kind of like the sound of Tom Torres.
PARIS: I hope you're kidding.
TORRES: Hey, it is the 24th century.

As opposed to the 23rd century?

S07E04 – Repression

Back to having a plot that depends on eliminating the possibility of all general forms of surveillance.

And again Tuvok's locked up but not kept secure.

It's quite late to start doing Maquis vs. Starfleet plots, in season 7.

S07E05 – Critical Care

Mostly a good episode, but it doesn't end well.

Why would someone who's stealing the Doctor's program care about continuity, deleting him from sickbay, instead of simply bringing the copy that's on the mobile emitter? Voyager's subplot could've been about the missing emitter, and what to do when confronted with two fully functional Doctors. Maybe with the Doctor doing the checkup on the Doctor, and having a self-realization when discovering that his ethical subroutines didn't fail.

Neelix poisons a prisoner, and Tuvok lets him.

The Doctor had more of an excuse for his actions, where he was the prisoner and didn't have any other means of fighting back. But Voyager had a prisoner in their care, and decided to torture him. Neelix shouldn't be trusted with food or prisoners anymore, and Tuvok should be stripped of rank.

S07E06 – Inside Man

Starfleet still can't figure out how to make use of Barclay's skills.

If not to work with him directly, there should at least be people who can study his research to help communicate the results to his boss, and run independent simulations. He's a wasted resource, when he has to chase down his holidaying therapist to be able to get things done.

SEVEN: I've determined why we've been having difficulties.
KIM: A hologram. The transceiver wasn't designed to store photonic data. We have to get it out of there before it degrades.

They already sent a hologram back and forth. Shouldn't they question why their transceiver blew up this time? And why he comes with so many unnecessary skills attached. Also why they weren't told ahead of time, so that they could've been prepared for this critical transmission (although apparently they wouldn't have been, anyway).

S07E07 – Body and Soul

Mostly a good episode. But it depends on overlooking how ridiculously convenient it is that Seven's implant happens to be able to store and run a holographic program, with full organic feedback. Despite having no time to prepare.

What is a cold sonic shower? Do you lower the room temperature, or does it involve tractor beaming heat off of the body?

S07E08 – Nightingale

When Kim told Janeway that this was about him wanting to play commanding officer, that should've been the end of his mission. You can worry about promotions, and how you're being underappreciated, when you're not taking sides in a war that you know nothing about.

Instead they round it off with a war crime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy), and don't even mention it after Kim returns to Voyager.

S07E09E10 – Flesh and Blood

Ultimately, another holodeck story that forgets what can be done with holotech. Why is everyone we see a typical member of a known alien race? Try hunting a 24th century Batman. Or plain old Superman. Or Cthulhu.

How did the holodeck technology get here, when it was 30 000 light years away 3 years ago? Wasn't their communications network destroyed?

CHAKOTAY: There's nothing inherently violent about holodeck technology. It's what the Hirogen did with it that got them killed.
JANEWAY: How many times have we shared replicators to help people feed and clothe themselves?

None? At some point, they became a lot less worried about the consequences of sharing technology. But I don't remember them sharing replicator technology, or giving away technology outside of a trade, or a bribe as was the case with the Hirogen.

The Doctor gets let off easy, and has achieved full equality with the rest of the Voyager crew.

What are the Hirogen women up to, anyway? Are there any?

S07E11 – Shattered

Time travel clip show. Not much better than a regular clip show.

There's no real plot, just the characters talking about the series.

S07E12 – Lineage

For an episode about pregnancy, it's good. But that was a pretty shitty way for B'Elanna to treat Tom. And the Doctor.

This is another event that should lead to a demotion at least, along with security clearances being revoked. They can't have people reprogramming the Doctor to have him make false medical recommendations.

Why go to such lengths, instead of opting for an abortion, if you can't get over your fears of the future, or at all talk about them?

And how difficult can it be for the two of them to use birth control, in the 24th century, if a reduced chance of fertilization from interracial sex is enough to have them opt out of it?

S07E13 – Repentance

For once it looked like they were going to have physical bars and not rely on 24/7 force fields. But then it turns out it's bars on top and force fields in front. Which makes their incompetence less excusable, when they clearly have everything they need to do things differently, but choose to stick with a flawed design.

Then of course the power fails, and a plot plays out that never would have, if they had competent security.

Voyager already interfered by rescuing all of them from a damaged ship. Why does the Prime Directive matter past that point? And how can it include transporting prisoners to be executed, when the Federation doesn't have the death penalty?

S07E14 – Prophecy

If you can build another Delta Flyer between episodes, then maybe in a bit more time you can build a ship for the 204 Klingons, more advanced than their TOS era ship.

NEELIX: There are women and children down there. We can't just lock them up.
JANEWAY: I agree.

Klingon women. And depending on definition, either there shouldn't be that many children, or many of the children will be sizable and dangerous, like Worf was.

Kim is sexually assaulted, almost raped, and no one seems to care.

And then they show the Klingons how to operate the transporter controls, in case they wanted to steal the ship.

S07E15 – The Void

This might've been a more interesting plot if it was spread out over several episodes, as a background theme for other stories. As it is, it feels rushed. If they wanted to make a point about sticking to their principles, it shouldn't begin and end in the same episode.

S07E16E17 – Workforce

They could've come up with a less dramatic way of unkidnapping their people. Like putting a "beam me up" locator beacon on their backs.

The main problem with this vs. the Stargate SG-1 episode, is the far more advanced setting. If these aliens can be a match for Voyager in space, why are they so dependent on manual labor?

Good that they didn't outright abandon everyone else this time, though.

S07E18 – Human Error

Another pointless fake-out.

I wouldn't mind going straight into a scene where Seven's finally rid of the implants. They weren't a factor when she was recently stuck off of Voyager, so she seems to be ready to be rid of them.

Having a character talk to themselves on the holodeck is pretty boring. Not that this wouldn't be a boring episode even if those were all real character interactions.

S07E19 – Q2

The 173rd string was out of alignment.

S07E20 – Author, Author

If holograms don't have independent rights, then presumably the people who create and control the holograms own what the holograms produce, as far as there is ownership at all.

S07E21 – Friendship One

This could've been a good episode, but the writing took too many shortcuts.

They had a spare chief engineer all along.

Killed and almost instantly transported to sickbay? Why aren't you reviving him? At least tell us what that weapon did, that means that a simple shot to the heart can't be worked around. It seems like something that the transporter itself should be able to fix. Load up a previous trace, and don't rematerialize his heart in the "just got shot" condition.

Then Paris and Neelix immediately return to "Carey who?" mode.

The rescue crew don't even do anything about the murderer, predictably leading to further conflict, and a cheap "mom with a gun" scene.

Why wasn't Voyager already in orbit, instead of deliberately wearing down their own shields in the atmosphere?

And of course there's the ridiculousness of how did that primitive probe make it all the way out there, and happen to be within reach of Voyager's path? It could've been a story about one of many probes, instead of the probe.

S07E22 – Natural Law

Another shuttle mission, another crash landing.

If you're on the same planet that Voyager's parked at, why didn't you beam directly to your destination in the first place?

Paris's subplot would've been better played out in the background. Show us what the rest of the crew are up to, and more of what that global civilization looks like.

There's not enough going on in this episode, to say whether what Voyager did was right or not. Other than that they should've spent more time on trying to figure whether it would be right or not.

S07E23 – Homestead

They can detect life signs from 4.9 light years away, but when they're right next to them, they have no clue what's going on.

And of course it's yet another ridiculously dense asteroid field. Too narrow for Voyager to navigate through, but somehow the rocks are not gravitationally attracted to each other.

It's an alright episode. But setting aside the issue of having to write out Neelix's character much earlier on, it would've a been a less annoyingly convenient plot if it didn't happen some 40 000 light years away from Talax. Or if they explained how they ended up there.

S07E24 – Renaissance Man

How you about you don't tell someone that you've discovered that they're being deceptive, until after bringing in a security team?

At times a good episode, but the Doctor was disappointing. Or maybe it's a good depiction of the limitations of Doctor do-no-harm. He almost got them all killed, and lucked out with Janeway being able to do a reverse Stockholm syndrome.

And yes, he definitely should be keeping a log of Janeway's command decisions. Those should be public anyway, up for a full review with Voyager's return to Starfleet.

S07E25E26 – Endgame

Naomi's daughter has the exact same facial features, so would both her parents be half-human/half-Ktarian? Or is the rule that non-human genes are always dominant? Considering Torres' daughter, Naomi's daughter, Kes's daughter, and the child Kim had with Kes's daughter.

If you can go back in time with significantly more advanced weapons and shields, and some sort of shuttle-only stealth, why not also bring more advanced warp technology and some wormhole charts?

Or was Admiral Janeway's real mission to make up for having saved the Borg when they were losing to Species 8472? Although in that case, couldn't she have traveled further back? Was it essential to get Neelix off of Voyager first?

The Borg had a transwarp conduit only a light year away from Earth, all along? Why did they never use it before, and apparently wouldn't use it for another 26 years?

Damn, that was an abrupt ending.

Shouldn't Janeway be kicked out of Starfleet after this, and/or be under constant supervision to make sure she doesn't go out of her way to alter the timeline for the sake of her own personal agenda? Why is she an Admiral in Nemesis?

She might've saved Earth, but only after she and her future self created the threat to Earth. At worst, if they can't replicate up that future tech, and if the Borg managed to share what they collected from the shuttle, the Borg can adapt to the technology before it's been developed.

Quote
Is she going to kill the crew and erase the EMH once they've successfully brought her home?
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on January 12, 2020, 02:13:11 PM
So in summary, Neelix is male. A.k.a. I hadn't really heard much about this show, before watching it.

Along the way, I was reminded of a later character who I had seen references to. They turned out to be a better character than expected. Possibly helped by the low standards set by almost everyone else.

There are some good episodes here and there. But the good episodes stand alone. The bad episodes stand together, and make it difficult to forget about the earlier flaws, as they keep failing in the same ways, even bringing up past mistakes and doubling down on their decisions.

It's okay to try something different. But with 9 "modern" Star Trek seasons preceding them, I don't expect them to start completely from scratch and spend a lot of time on finding their way, as it were. They spent the first 4 seasons on launching the series. Then when it starts to feel like they might be hitting their stride, it collapses into a random mess again.

If the Voyager crew were meant to be portrayed as incompetent, insane, or villains, then maybe the series would've been more enjoyable if that intent had been made clear from the start.

In terms of sci-fi, at least they explored holograms and emergent properties. Well, for one hologram. But they overused the holodeck, without really doing anything meaningful with it. Same with various deep space phenomena. A bunch of weird stuff happens, and then it stops happening, with no further consequences.

In terms of consistency and worldbuilding, they're the opposite of DS9. Very little builds from one episode to the next. When they do revisit past events, they usually don't account for what Voyager has been up to in the meantime. And the characters don't really build, either. They change behavior with the plot. In terms of ethics, they're often the opposite of Starfleet.

Quote
The needs of Voyager outweigh the needs of everyone else in the galaxy, seems to the moral of the story

Here are some deleted lines from the episode reviews:

Spoiler
I wonder if Voyager is sort of an inverse of what happened to Gandhi in civilization. He was supposed to be minimally likely to use nukes, but a bug meant he was maximally likely to use nukes.

Starfleet and Maquis lost in the Delta Quadrant. Likelihood of mutiny? Let me type that in. 1. 0.

"0? Really, 0?"

"Yeah, that's what it says."

"I guess that's how we're going to write this series. A show about what happens when a Captain has a crew who obey them no matter what, and when there's no one else to answer to."

-

Is any of this non-specific "Indian" culture stuff accurate, or are the writers making stuff up the same way they do for alien cultures?

Addendum: Apparently the consultant was a fraud, which might explain why Chakotay's character turned out to be so bland.

-

I was wondering why they kept referring to it as a "sonic shower" in DS9. If that's the only kind they have, wouldn't it simply be called a shower? But it seems they have more options.

Are Vulcans uncomfortable with nude aliens?

-

How does the universal translator deal with words and phrases that have different meanings in thousands of languages? Is this why it can't translate Klingon, because Klingon sounds like a collection of swears from various other languages?

-

When they use their combadges to talk to a specific section or person, is the message delayed so that it can be sent after they've specified the recipient? Or is it sent to everyone?

-

How many humans are there spread throughout random places in the galaxy, who no else knows about? If Voyager can randomly run into other humans three times while traveling in leaps across 40 000 light years of uncharted space in a mostly straight line, then maybe there are more humans lost in space than live on Earth.

-

https://youtu.be/PIGxMENwq1k
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on January 16, 2020, 01:08:30 AM
I rewatched the Witcher and I have thoughts.

Even on second viewing, the timelines do not work. You can't just have three separate timelines and plot threads and not explain/signal them properly, it is just bad writing, especially with all the jumping around that is going on in every episode. If you go non-linear, you have to make sure that you know what you are doing and you have a rock-solid script and director, otherwise this is the end result. You also cannot jump decades and have regular human characters look exactly the same as before.

Also, I really feel that they should have had more episodes. Of the three plot threads, only Yennefer's feels compelling. Ciri's is a weird and disjointed trauma conga line that does not really go anywhere and Geralt's is too episodic and too tied to a tried dead girl story. They should have fleshed it all out more, especially in the buildup to the grand finale which falls flat exactly due to the fact that we have not met most of these characters before and suddenly their mass deaths are supposed to elicit some kind of response. This in particular feels like large chunks of the story were either forgotten about or suddenly cut without a proper workaround.

They may use the timelines to build these characters up in future seasons, but that is no way to make the finale of the first season work.


Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on January 16, 2020, 02:48:47 AM
Netflix have put an interactive timeline up for the TV show. It differs slightly from the books. In the books Yennefer is about 10 years older than Geralt. In the TV show she's 32 years younger.

https://www.witchernetflix.com/en-gb

The season takes place over 57 years of Yennerfer's timeline (From age 14 to 71) and 32 years of Geralt's timeline (from age 71 to 103), Ciri's timeline is all over a short period (weeks or months)

The Bard is the problematic human as far as  onscreen aging goes. He is 18 when we first meet him in the show and 40 when we last see him.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Rai on January 16, 2020, 03:30:06 AM
The interactive timeline does help, but external explanations should not be necessary to make sense of a TV show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Jeremy's Sea on January 16, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
I think everyone has nailed the Witcher's biggest issue. Even putting Geralt in a different colored tunic would have helped a little. But ultimately it was unnecessary and only front-loaded to create urgency. The show for Geralt truly only starts at the end of the last episode. This is the real problem with flashbacks, they just suck the wind out of the forward momentum, and these are worse as they are confusing. I did find it more entertaining by the end of the season though when he became less a gloom stalker and more invested in having a life.
That said, for the money, I expected this to have GoT level production design, but it honestly felt closer to Xena on screen. Aside from already thinking Cavill is not a good actor anyway, he just looked awkward with how swole he was. Do Witchers have complimentary gym memberships? I get that physique for superheros, but in a fantasy setting it always looks weird.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Morvis13 on January 17, 2020, 08:44:24 AM
Yeah I just finished the Witcher and agree. They could have done it way better.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 19, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
I took Geralts phsyique to be part and parcel of being a mutant. No one in the world looks like him so that kind of works for me. I do like Cavill though so I might be biased. His brother is (or was) CO of 30 Commando. I dislike officers but that adds yet more bias for me.
The biggest part of the timeline I struggled with was the time between Ciri leaving the castle and meeting Geralt. Her story seems to span great time and distance but he seems to walk into the woods wearing the same shirt he was locked up in and then pass out for a day?
Also...did they address the fact that he has multiple great horses with the same name?
And yeah, it did look very cheap. But I liked it overall.

Anyway...
AJ and the Queen is very enjoyable.
I strongly dislike drag race, I am not fond of Ru Paul as a person and I find drag shows to be uninteresting.
BUT
This is a really good character driven comedy about a queen who gets conned out of all his money and ends up on a road trip with a stray kid.
Highly recommend. Just not ready to call it one of the greatest.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on January 19, 2020, 02:37:26 PM
In the books and video game series, Geralt calls all his horses Roach. I don't think it was ever explained.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: arthwollipot on January 19, 2020, 07:31:28 PM
I'm hearing some very mixed reports about The Witcher. Some people seem to love it, some to hate it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on January 19, 2020, 07:45:52 PM
In the books and video game series, Geralt calls all his horses Roach. I don't think it was ever explained.
I found that out by googling, but it does throw you off the trail of the multiple timelines thing.
Maybe the horses were obviously different and I missed it. I know as much about horses as I do about cars so unless it was Mr Ed I would be none the wiser.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on February 10, 2020, 03:17:53 PM
Carrying on from Star Trek: Voyager (https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43442.msg9647398.html#msg9647398).

Out of all of TOS (https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43443.msg9612393.html#msg9612393), TNG (https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43443.msg9630460.html#msg9630460), DS9 (https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,43443.msg9647367.html#msg9647367), Voyager and Enterprise, I didn't run into an episode I could clearly recognize. It's only the movie "First Contact" I'm confident I had watched previously. Which makes me wonder what exactly it was that I watched multiple episodes of, in the 90s and/or early 00s, that I retrospectively think of as having a Star Trek vibe.

As I recall, I mistook Stargate SG-1's "Tin Man" for Star Trek. Which I realized when I started binging that show, about 15 years ago, because I recognized the episode. But that's an outlier. It wasn't set on a spaceship, which is what I remember the show being centered around.

Star Trek: Enterprise S01

Spoiler
E01E02 – Broken Bow

FORREST: The warp five engine wouldn't be a reality without men like Doctor Cochrane and Henry Archer, who worked so hard to develop it. So it's only fitting that Henry's son, Jonathan Archer, will command the first starship powered by that engine.

Yep, nepotism.

But so far, I like what this show looks like.

E03 – Fight or Flight

They do some invasive speciation.

E04 – Strange New World

Then they (vocalized by the Vulcan guide) use the classification "marsupial" for alien life. Are they not shocked by how Earth-like all this life is?

Okay, so these guys are closer to our time than they are to TNG. They're not adept at beaming. They're going to struggle more with the random alien civilizations they encounter. Etc. But that's some primitive looking camping equipment.

Shouldn't you at least have portable habitats that you can seal up properly, given that you're space travelers?

E05 – Unexpected

Trip was raped, and they're treating it as a joke.

E06 – Terra Nova

I don't like the variable audio volume that this series has had so far.

E09 – Civilization

To not spend months or years on learning each new alien language is one of the gimmes I'm usually not that worried about. But since they're delving into the process of it; how can they translate anything by sound alone?

E10 – Fortunate Son

If people have known that shield frequencies are so critical, for hundreds of years, why are they so easy to obtain? If the value tends to be simple enough that someone can know them off-hand, they shouldn't be difficult to brute force.

If Starfleet doesn't have jurisdiction over Earth vessels, does anyone?

E13 – Dear Doctor

Species that originated on the same planet, over the same span of time, can't be less evolved than each other.

Wtf? You're going to let these people go extinct simply because it would free up space?

This episode is basically an endorsement of eugenics. Claiming that one species has more right to live than another, based on random mutations and inherited traits.

No one gave a single thought to the idea that it would be possible for these people to live differently than what they currently do, if that's what it would take for both species to thrive.

There's nothing scientific about denying access to medicine based on genetics. It's no better to not cure a genetic disease, than it is to not cure smallpox or polio.

E18 – Rogue Planet

Exploring a rogue planet could be pretty interesting. But then it's just another camping trip, with permanent night. Plus telepathic prey, which didn't really have anything to do with the rogue nature of of planet.

Why are the plants green?

E19 – Acquisition

Possibly the best Ferengi episode. Definitely the best Ferengi episode outside of main characters.

E20 – Oasis

For a ghost story, well, they've all been pretty bad, so I guess that makes this amazing.

Not sure why they couldn't simply tell them the truth. Was he keeping it a secret from the holograms, as well?

Aside of that; why are the crew behaving like they don't run into weird aliens all the time, with plenty of reason to be worried about running into dangers in random places? Why would it be either ghosts, or nothing?

Star Trek plots don't need to be afraid of no ghosts.

E21 – Detained

Hah.

E23 – Fallen Hero

Huh, so Risa wasn't started by humans? What happened to the natives before TNG? Edit: Or I guess the Risa natives are the most identical to humans of all post-TOS aliens, because I didn't think they were aliens until I looked it up.

Why didn't they kill the ambassador when she stood right in front of them?

E24 – Desert Crossing

I like it, but; how would you have both spaceship technology and very primitive accommodations? How can you be able to leave the planet's gravity well, when you have so little technology available on the ground?

Those terrorists/freedom fighters must at least be going to some effort to avoid collateral damage, if they're not taking advantage of being able to attack from orbit.

E25 – Two Days and Two Nights

Lucky that every abode in the galaxy is made for human-sized people.
[close]

Star Trek: Enterprise S02

Spoiler
S02E02 – Carbon Creek

Another boring story from the past.

Why diminish human inventions by saying that they were caused by aliens or time travelers?

S02E04 – Dead Stop

One of the best episodes, to start with. I liked the whole automated setup.

But why male models humanoids, and not stacks of computer chips? Especially considering that they were only using the brains, but kept their bodies around. Which would mean they're using a lot of space and energy, compared to the computing power available in human brains.

The facility otherwise seemed to be more advanced than TNG level technology. Why wouldn't they have regular computers that are advanced enough to not understand custom inquiries?

S02E05 – A Night in Sickbay

Let the man take care of his dog. But why wouldn't someone else take over his duties in the meantime? Instead of the plot waiting around for Archer.

S02E06 – Marauders

Not killing them outright, sure. But I don't see how that rebellion would be any sort of deterrent for the Klingons. They could beam everyone into space, or bomb the site from orbit.

S02E07 – The Seventh

Why do they need to do things like have Trip pretend to be Archer? T'Pol asked him to go with her. Just tell them that.

Why send T'Pol on this mission, when first of all she's someone who can be recognized by the fugitive, and when she's emotionally compromised?

S02E08 – The Communicator

Can't they locate communicators by communicating with them?

S02E11 – Precious Cargo

Person trapped in a box, who? Oh, they're just a passenger.

Bah, again with Starfleet officers threatening the use of torture, and acting out as if they're going to murder a prisoner. That ruins not only the episode, but damages their characters. At this point, we could've been dismissing "Dear Doctor" as a freak season 1 event. Instead, their questionable ethics are becoming established.

Why can't Star Trek writers write proper interrogation scenes?

S02E12 – The Catwalk

Why not stay on the planet, rather than be exposed to a space storm in space? There's even a gorge five times deeper than the Grand Canyon. That sounds like a good place to start, when looking for a hideout. Depending on if this space storm can cause rockfalls.

What's Archer looking at through the window? That can't be the storm, since it's traveling at hundreds of times the speed of light, and it's not there yet.

How are there features that are visibly circulating, and staying within range of the ship, when they're inside the storm? Shouldn't it all be a constant stream of light?

S02E19 – Judgment

This is basically a mini-STVI, but with more of the parts that I didn't like, and skint of the parts that I did.

It's yet another confusingly primitive slave labor plot. 150 years before this episode, the non-space faring humans aren't limited to pickaxes.

S02E20 – Horizon

TRAVIS: This system's almost thirty light years behind us.
ARCHER: Admiral Forrest assures me it's only a temporary detour.

Two months of travel time (plus two months more if they're going back the other way) is a "temporary detour"?

S02E22 –  Cogenitor

So what if those two are not going to be able to have a child? Someone asked for asylum, you refused, they killed themselves. If you're going to make a big deal about slave owners losing their slave, but you refused aid to someone asking for asylum, you don't have much of a moral high ground.

Trip was wrong in sneaking around, he should've expected trouble. But it's odd how little the rest of them cared to speak up about the slave.

If you're actively interacting with an alien civilization, and happily showing off technology and socializing with each other, there's no reason why you have to be silent about the more problematic aspects.

S02E23 – Regeneration

Snow, during the Arctic summer? Increasingly unlikely.

Polar bears in the wild? Increasingly unlikely.

A random group of aliens setting off from some hundred light years away, aiming for a location tens of thousands of light years away, ending up within half a dozen light years of the main characters? Every time.

And again they're very polite when they find violent assaulters sabotaging the ship, asking them to stop before they shoot.

It turns out their weapons were useless. Except they work perfectly fine as clubs.

S02E25 – Bounty

Doesn't Starfleet have any way of containing delirious patients in the 22nd century? Besides locking them up with the only doctor on the ship.

S02E26 – The Expanse

ARCHER: You've been wanting to test those new torpedoes.
REED: What yield?
ARCHER: Start low. We just want to get them off our backs.

Why give someone who's ambushing you any leeway?

Giant, volatile clouds in space, and a self-inflicted continued threat. That's Star Trek, but not the kind I like.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: 2397 on February 10, 2020, 03:20:41 PM
Star Trek: Enterprise S03

Spoiler
S03E1 – The Xindi

Why attack a planetary civilization with a giant laser weapon that doesn't actually do much to destroy the civilization, if you're worried that they might discover you? Why not hold off your attack, until you've developed the weapon that can destroy them outright?

Ultimately, all you have to do to destroy Earth society is to throw a big rock at it really fast.

S03E02 – Anomaly

Having the "heroes" torture prisoners ruins the show to some degree. Especially when no one confronts them about it.

The xenophobia doesn't help.

S03E05 – Impulse

At this point, I'm bored with the show.

I see people commending this for being the big story arc season. But it feels as episodic as ever.  There's an anomaly that changes the laws of physics but then they're all fine. They mutate into another species and then back again. There's a slave double agent who escapes. Now T'Pol's freaking, but it's not related to what happened to her in the recent episodes. Is what's happening to her now going to last past this episode?

The only consistent themes are Xindi equals bad, and T'Pol doing her intimate-and-half-naked-but-definitely-not-sexual touching sessions with Trip. Neither is that strong of a theme.

And then they bring back the "asteroids that are ridiculously close together" theme. At least the asteroids are moving this time, but that normality is what they take issue with.

S03E07 – The Shipment

This and the previous episode were noticeably better.

S03E08 – Twilight

An alright episode. But they didn't really sell the no long term memory aspect, when it seems to work fine in the "present time" of the episode. I guess he was actually forming long term memories, that then somehow deteriorated.

S03E09 – North Star

This is a very US-centric Star Trek show. Fair enough, there's no United Federation of Planets yet. But there is a United Earth. Yet even the extraterrestrial humans are from the USA, and the history they talk about is all USA.

When T'Pol told that story about Vulcans, despite Sputnik being the catalyst, it was set in the USA.

S03E10 – Similitude

Human DNA does not store a person's memories, and that's like 80% of the plot.

But since they went with it, it invalidates the rest of the plot. Archer claims that it's all about Trip's skills, which Sim has. And you could create more sims from Trip's DNA. So you can try to save Sim first, and then either you have Trip's skills long term and don't need to save Trip. Or you can prepare the enzyme ahead of time for the next one, so that you can try again. Then if it doesn't work, you'd still be able to harvest the neural tissue to save Trip. Or you could create multiple sims, to take a little neural tissue from each, rather than a fatal amount from one.

What Archer wanted to do to Sim, and basically did by denying Sim any other options, was worse than what Janeway did to Tuvix. Tuvix was an accident, and the embodiment of a Trolley problem. With Sim, Archer is entirely responsible for his existence, and wanted to trade one for one. He claims it's about all of Earth vs. one, but that's ridiculous. If that's true, why has Trip been allowed to leave the ship at all? Why is he handling anything that could potentially harm him, instead of instructing others remotely?

Why isn't there a team assigned to studying and working full time with Trip, to learn as much from him as possible?

S03E11 – Carpenter Street

If the Xindi can travel to past Earth, why don't they go back to the ice age and kill everyone?

The Federation time department seems almost entirely useless. All they provide is time travel itself, with no backup or advanced technology to use in the past. Why aren't they setting them up to stop the Xindi the exact moment they appear in the past?

S03E12 – Chosen Realm

Just like that, you're going to hand your ship over to terrorists? They prove their point by murdering one of you, and you think that you'll be better off by giving them a warship, instead of fighting them? Or specifically fighting the guy who's right in front of you, within throat-punching range, where all you have to do is to stop him from using his walkie-talkie.

Of course, all that the hostiles had to do to avoid scans, was to put up their faith shields.

S03E13 – Proving Ground

You don't need to literally destroy an entire planet to end all civilization on it. Blowing out the crust is already overkill.

Is there an unstated reason for why they want to make the weapon a billion times more powerful, than what it would take to permanently end a planetary civilization?

S03E15 – Harbinger

Possibly the most boring episode of the series. The T'Pol-Trip relationship goes to platonic factor 10. While Reed behaves like a child with zero emotional control. As Archer says, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they played it out on screen. And something else happened, but it wasn't given much screen time.

S03E16 – Doctor's Orders

Never don't fly into the storms.

S03E17 – Hatchery

It's a weird way of dealing with the xenophobia issue. Having the others go full xenophobe, in contrast to Archer who wants to spend critical resources on Xindi hatchlings, which leads to a mutiny.

As if there's no middle ground, where you could separate military and civilian targets, and rationally evaluate what kind of resources you're able to spend.

It takes a disease for Archer to distinguish himself from those who want to treat all Xindi as scum. What kind of moral of the story is that?

S03E19 – Damage

The door to diplomacy has been opened, but regardless, this is the time that Archer is going to consciously cross the line.

And it's T'Pol's turn to be the only one who is diseased enough to care about others.

It's as if the writers think that no one of sound mind would take issue with the Enterprise crew's actions.

Enterprise has been severely damaged, and the Xindi know this. If this is all about making the rendezvous, why assume the Xindi would assume you skipped out on it, rather than send someone to investigate? Why didn't they check if the ship could still fly when they handed Archer over? And why did they hand Archer over, rather than take him to where they wanted him to be?

Everything that Enterprise does is being justified with saving Earth. As if whatever way they go about doing things is the only way to achieve it, and there's never going to be a limit to what they can do, if they can convince themselves that it's going to save billions of lives.

Quote
SEVEN: No choice. You say that frequently. You destroy lifeforms to attain your goals, then claim that they left you no choice. Does that logic comfort you?

S03E20 – The Forgotten

Archer's using their own dead crewmembers in a speech to motivate the crew, right after having sentenced a ship full of innocent aliens to a likely catastrophic death in the Expanse. Emphasizing that they only care about their own.

Which makes it difficult to care about any of the characters. They're willing to sacrifice random people who happen to pass by them, so what does it matter if any of the Enterprise crew die? It's all part of the mission, right?

S03E21 – E2

Why didn't these guys show up 2 episodes ago to help them fix their ship, and stop them from sacrificing the innocent aliens?

It could've been interesting to see the alternates successfully strand Enterprise without warp capabilities, for the sake of the "mission". Instead, we get a scene where Archer has put Lorian in the brig for trying to do the exact same thing that Archer himself did.

And both Archer and Archer talk about how it's wrong to do this to family and ancestors. Again emphasizing that it's not really about saving lives. It's about which lives they value over others.

S03E24 – Zero Hour

They can immediately tell that the stars are wrong in another part of the galaxy, but not around Earth? Can't even tell that the buildings are different?
[close]

Star Trek: Enterprise S04

Spoiler
S04E01E02 – Storm Front

After a season's worth of an enemy civilization that's been engineered to make it seem like it's okay for everyone to uniformly hate them (with a slight attempt at reconciliation towards the end), the next plot is Nazis occupying the USA.

And they're making it out like the Germans are the only racists around. 20 years before the Civil Rights Act.

S04E03 – Home

I guess at least they're sort of acknowledging some of the issues. But going off on a hike and feeling bad for yourself until you get laid isn't exactly a war crimes tribunal.

And then everyone tells Archer that he's in the clear. As if the only point of this episode was to double down and say there's nothing wrong with torture and deliberately targeting civilians, including civilians of countries whose governments were never involved in the war.

While Phlox is unable to leave the ship because of xenophobes on Earth. They play it off as something the aliens just have to put up with. It's happening on Earth, on your home turf. So why isn't dealing with that a mission on its own?

At least tell us that other Earth officials are dealing with it.

S04E05 – Cold Station 12

I like that they don't outright dismiss the idea of genetic engineering this time around, and I like Dr. Arik Soong's role to a point. But I don't like that they have him stoop down to Archer's level. It wasn't necessary for him to take such actions himself, since he was going to try to save the Augments regardless.

S04E06 – The Augments

They didn't really make the case that the Augments are inherently bad, when Soong was working on other changes and was never allowed to go ahead with it.

There's no reason you have to treat genetically engineered people as something that replaces humanity, anymore than regular children replace humanity.

S04E07 – The Forge

That was a silly death for this great (if only by proxy) Vulcan leader. Sticking his head out of the window during a storm.

S04E10 – Daedalus

Another "no choice" justification for endangering (if not outright claiming) lives. And another experiment performed in a non-experimental setting.

S04E11 – Observer Effect

Basically "Dear Doctor" with the Enterprise crew on the other side of the decision. I guess it's lucky that the Organians weren't around to observe them then.

S04E14 – The Aenar

T'POL: A pilot can operate the Drone from a great distance, over many light years.
REED: So, there really was no one on that ship.
TUCKER: And the people running it are back on their homeworld, safe and sound.
T'POL: Essentially.
TUCKER: Doesn't seem fair.

S04E15 – Affliction

Telepathic link across how many light years?

So this is where TOS costume limitations become Star Trek lore.

S04E16 – Divergence

I liked some of this. But they kept ramping things up until they were curing a plague in the middle of a multifaceted starship battle.

Maybe the added silliness is to distract from the silliness of the core plot.

S04E17 – Bound

Took them long enough to figure out what was going on. And then they still didn't learn. Why were there guards in the brig at all, rather than watching it remotely? And why isn't there an automatic warning when someone's released from the brig?

Someone tries to take your ship and turn you all into slaves, and then you just let them go?

S04E18E19 – In a Mirror, Darkly

It's a promising start. But their history is 88 years different before the launch of Enterprise, and they still have the exact same key crewmembers around? How did Phlox get involved?

When they have this much in common with the Enterprise that we've known up to this point, where are the Augments? What happened to the research, Dr. Arik Soong, and the Klingons? Is there a Section 31?

At least these guys have reasonable encryption protocols.

This was significantly better than DS9's alternate reality episodes, but that's a low bar.

S04E20 – Demons

There's a warp speed energy weapon on Mars? Earth has access to weapons that can travel 60 million km in 6 seconds, in 2155? Why have we never seen anything like this in the other series? The closest thing I can think of are the soliton waves.

Why wasn't this array used to help protect Earth from the Xindi attacks?

Why isn't it the most well-guarded facility in the Sol system?

Why did they send the first and second officers from the world famous Enterprise ship on an undercover mission to the Moon? Weren't they also very recently on a live broadcast?

S04E21 – Terra Prime

Shouldn't Archer be shouting "NO CHOICE!" and blast that facility to save everyone else, even if it destroys the Utopia colony?

ARCHER: Paxton's holding two of my officers hostage at the array. We can't attack it.

Oh, apparently that's what makes the difference.

SAMUELS: This wasn't an easy decision for the Council. The potential for disaster's even greater than you think. Over the next thirty months, the terraforming project has fourteen comets set to collide with Mars. Without the array to divert them toward the polar caps, the comets could hit anywhere, even the domed cities.

If that's all they're using the array for, they really overdid it, by making it capable of vaporizing one of their own most advanced vessels in an instant. Any old warp cargo ship should be able to direct comets to where you want them to be. They don't need the array at all, if it wasn't meant to be treated as an extraordinarily dangerous military facility.

Archer's team successfully infiltrates the facility. But they don't stun everyone on sight, because there's still more screen time to fill.

I'm glad that they did more to deal with the xenophobia issue. I quite liked the two-parter, up until the interplanetary death ray revelation. After that, it became far too tropey.

S04E22 – These Are the Voyages...

Here's the "bonus" finale, as a lot of people consider "Terra Prime" to be the true series finale, and don't care much for this one. I'm not sure what to expect, other than Riker and holograms.

RIKER: Computer, freeze programme.

Ah, so it's like Babylon 5's premature, rushed finale (which incidentally was fairly decent).

Riker should've stayed out of shot when he's not interacting with the program.

And he shouldn't have interacted with the program that much, because then the story becomes more about Riker and the holodeck, than about what happened to Enterprise.

So the scene where Trip and T'Pol talk about what the chef said never happened.

And then there are more chef scenes.

I guess we're also meant to assume that these holocharacters are entirely accurate representations. If you ask them random questions, they're supposed to respond like the real characters would. But the scenes depicted predate Federation holodeck technology by more than a century. How were their personalities and memories of the time recorded and stored, until they could be applied? Which might be another several decades into holodeck development, before holodecks were advanced enough to represent real people accurately.

It's not an outright bad episode, but it's not good enough for a finale. Maybe it could've been a reasonable midseason crossover episode with a contemporary contemporary show.
[close]

So in summary, the theme was indeed different. Aside of the melody, the lyrics include phrases like "they're not gonna change my mind. 'Cause I've got faith". The theme doesn't really convey the spirit of exploration or science.

Enterprise was better than I expected, in the first season. It's not great, but the characters and the setting were consistent and relatable. There's one episode in season 1 that's quite messed up. Fortunately, it's not the start of them making a number of outrageous and self-centered decisions. That comes later.

Season two was mostly alright.

The season three arc starts out as naked, uncritical patriotism. Some bad guys attacked us, so let's throw out all the rules and do whatever we want in our hunt for the bad guys, because we're the good guys regardless of what we do. Then it doesn't really go anywhere for a while. While the characters become less likable.

When it gets back onto the main plot, it still comes off as pro-war patriotism. The story is quite literally "find the WMD, or everybody dies". To the point where the survival of one their crewmembers is equated to the survival of everyone on Earth, but no rights or sympathies are afforded to anyone who happens to be in their way.

Season four started with the disappointing conclusion to season 3, but it gets better. And then it turns into something closer to what Enterprise should've been (to a much larger degree), as a true prequel series.

In parts, Enterprise is significantly better than Voyager. It's better to start with, it's more internally consistent. In other parts, it's awful, and not very self-reflective for a sci-fi show. It has far too much in common with "24", with its hyperpatriotic brutality porn. Although that was mainly the third season.

If the show had three more seasons, maybe they would've pulled up the average. Though I can't say the show really deserved more seasons, given what they did with the opportunities they had.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 10, 2020, 04:46:46 PM
I don't remember much about Enterprise other than I remember it being better than it got credit for. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Jeremy's Sea on February 10, 2020, 06:32:24 PM
I'm not sure if I think The Outsider belongs here yet. The book meandered like King is wont to do, but it was somehow satisfying. They've done a good job expanding the mythos (because King just makes shit up as he goes along, let's be real), but now they're also going so far afield it's becoming like the American Gods adaptation which is just pointlessly bogged down in order to get a higher episode count. It doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 10, 2020, 07:27:47 PM
I really enjoyed Locke&Key

A bit of a missed opportunity as a real horror show but very enjoyable despite some niggling questions.
Spoiler
Dodge can look like anyone. Why does he keep going back to the same female form? In the comic he is only locked in that form while in the well.
[close]
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 10, 2020, 08:15:55 PM
Locke and Key was fairly faithful to the source material, up until the last few minutes of Episode 10 and those changes are ok as they are needed to ensure future seasons.

I liked the Joe Hill cameo in the last episode. Something his dad used to do a few decades ago. Until the credits rolled, I didn't realise that Gabriel Rodriguez (artist on Locke and Key) also had a cameo in the same episode (doing the same job as Joe)
very minor spoiler
Both were paramedics
[close]

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: mindme on February 11, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
I'm still trying to figure out if I really like October Faction on Netflix.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 21, 2020, 04:57:26 AM
Really loving Van Helsing on netflix.
A proper ruthless vampire apocalypse movie with great twists and action.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on February 21, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Really loving Van Helsing on netflix.
A proper ruthless vampire apocalypse movie with great twists and action.
I dig it but it's a bit of a guilty pleasure.  Its actually kind of a dumb show, but it really scratches my apocalypse itch without being the slog that TWD became. 

There's also a show with a weirdly similar plot and set up, Wynona Earp.  For some reason the descendants of Wyatt Earp are the folks that have to kill all the evil monsters.  Strong female lead descended from the monster killing family, you find out eventually that she has an equally bad ass sister for reasons, monsterous love interests etc.  Not exactly the same but close enough for me to wonder at the similarities.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 21, 2020, 11:04:44 AM
Really loving Van Helsing on netflix.
A proper ruthless vampire apocalypse movie with great twists and action.
I dig it but it's a bit of a guilty pleasure.  Its actually kind of a dumb show, but it really scratches my apocalypse itch without being the slog that TWD became. 

There's also a show with a weirdly similar plot and set up, Wynona Earp.  For some reason the descendants of Wyatt Earp are the folks that have to kill all the evil monsters.  Strong female lead descended from the monster killing family, you find out eventually that she has an equally bad ass sister for reasons, monsterous love interests etc.  Not exactly the same but close enough for me to wonder at the similarities.
Definitely agree.
As I say "not the best" but damn solid and fun.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 23, 2020, 07:38:29 AM
Hunters, Al Pacinos new amazon show is something I had been really looking forward to. Im 2 episodes in and not sure what to think...
Its set in the late 70s and is about a young jewish man who finds out his grandmother was a secret nazi hunter murdered by one of her targets. So he joins her group and they hunt nazis.
First off, the nazis in the show REEK of scumbaggery and every moment of them on screen is uncomfortable and rage inducing.
So thats good.
The setting and direction and story is mostly really top notch, as is the acting.
A few things make me uncomfortable with the show but I dont think its discomfort in the way the subject matter should be uncomfortable.
I know the show is written and created by jewish people so Im hoping the things I wince at might be somewhat empowering or enjoyable for them but here they are:
Theres a lot of cuts to comedic fourth wall meta narration devices. Not quite the main character addressing the audience, but weird faux trailers for hypothetical movies and comedic intros for characters. Maybe the tone will make more sense later but I find it very jarring when the show is so up and down emotionally.

Second are the camp flashbacks. Of course we need to have these scenes so that the audience does not forget what the heroes are fighting for, but the acts of cruelty seem far too thought through by the writers in terms of being visually striking and out of left field in an imaginative sense. My own feeling is that it makes the events less horrific and more comic bookish (which granted, is a theme of the show).
I dont know if thats the point, I dont know how it plays to someone with more of a connection to the subject matter but it makes me feel what it makes me feel.

Overall though- Really invested in the characters. Really enjoying the story. Cant wait to see where the show goes. Fucking love seeing nazis get justice, even if it is fictional.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on February 23, 2020, 11:30:41 AM
Hunters, Al Pacinos new amazon show is something I had been really looking forward to. Im 2 episodes in and not sure what to think...
Its set in the late 70s and is about a young jewish man who finds out his grandmother was a secret nazi hunter murdered by one of her targets. So he joins her group and they hunt nazis.
First off, the nazis in the show REEK of scumbaggery and every moment of them on screen is uncomfortable and rage inducing.
So thats good.
The setting and direction and story is mostly really top notch, as is the acting.
A few things make me uncomfortable with the show but I dont think its discomfort in the way the subject matter should be uncomfortable.
I know the show is written and created by jewish people so Im hoping the things I wince at might be somewhat empowering or enjoyable for them but here they are:
Theres a lot of cuts to comedic fourth wall meta narration devices. Not quite the main character addressing the audience, but weird faux trailers for hypothetical movies and comedic intros for characters. Maybe the tone will make more sense later but I find it very jarring when the show is so up and down emotionally.

Second are the camp flashbacks. Of course we need to have these scenes so that the audience does not forget what the heroes are fighting for, but the acts of cruelty seem far too thought through by the writers in terms of being visually striking and out of left field in an imaginative sense. My own feeling is that it makes the events less horrific and more comic bookish (which granted, is a theme of the show).
I dont know if thats the point, I dont know how it plays to someone with more of a connection to the subject matter but it makes me feel what it makes me feel.

Overall though- Really invested in the characters. Really enjoying the story. Cant wait to see where the show goes. Fucking love seeing nazis get justice, even if it is fictional.

On Thursday we were invited to a screening of the premiere episode at a theater in Highland Park (a Gentrified area in LA). The block around the theater was dressed up to look like 1970s New York, with NYPD cars and officers and yellow cabs, and cast members and other actors in costume and in character mingling with the crowd.

It was a lot of fun, I just wish the show had been stronger.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on February 24, 2020, 10:16:21 PM
Finished Hunters.  It's alright.  Dragged pretty hard but was finishable. 

The S2 hook is hilarious/amazing.  If they combined S1 and S2 into one season, I think this would be a very popular show.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on February 28, 2020, 07:41:33 PM
Finished Hunters.  It's alright.  Dragged pretty hard but was finishable. 

The S2 hook is hilarious/amazing.  If they combined S1 and S2 into one season, I think this would be a very popular show.
Just finished it myself and agree.
Bit too on the nose at times.
I wish they had shown how Lonnie fit into the group because he was so conspicuously out of place that every scene was jarring despite a good performance.
Likewise I had hoped to see how the group were recruited but was left with narrative blueballs.

What a twist though. I did enjoy watching it.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on February 28, 2020, 09:00:07 PM
Been watching Raised By Wolves. Reminds me of a rough-around-the-edges family from Rotterdam I used to know.

Mom: "We've hit the jackpot kids, we've got asbestos!"
All: "YAAAAY!"
Germaine: "Good old asbestos, you're a real pal!"
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on March 05, 2020, 08:58:09 PM
Mythic Quest: Raven's Banquet is not terrible for a show I'd never heard of before I watched the Pilot. I only found it while looking through Apple TV+'s menu while contemplating dropping my subscription.

My quick synopsis would be a comedy set inside a game studio like Blizzard during a major expansion to their mega-hit MMPORG
F.Murray Abraham is the biggest name actor. The rest are mainly unknowns or minor actors from other shows.

Based on the Pilot only I'd give it a 6.5/10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMaPCYRPhY0
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Ah.hell on March 09, 2020, 02:09:21 PM
Altered Carbon Season 2.  Meh/10.  A pretty significant decline from the first season.   Lots of WTF? moments.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Morvis13 on March 09, 2020, 02:21:38 PM
Altered Carbon Season 2.  Meh/10.  A pretty significant decline from the first season.   Lots of WTF? moments.

I agree with this. I watched season 1 three times it was so awesome. Don't think I'll rewatch season 2.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on March 09, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Yeah, S2 dragged and it lacked the pulpy transhumanism vibe of S1.  Unless it's well reviewed, I wouldn't even bother with an S3. 
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: amysrevenge on March 09, 2020, 02:49:10 PM
More or less the same.  I did think it ended strong - I'd call E1-E6 maybe 5/10, and put just E7-E8 at 7.5/10.

Just took too long to get interesting.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Harry Black on March 09, 2020, 05:38:27 PM
Agreed.
I think Anthony Mackie lacks the amoral charisma needed to carry the character and the story is just kind of all over the place.
These things never seem to address the criticisms of previous seasons/movies and just go on to gain more criticisms.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: werecow on March 09, 2020, 06:01:05 PM
I agree re: Altered Carbon s2. It wasn't abysmal, but s1 was far superior. The whole feel of the series is different, too. At first I actually thought I had mixed s1 up with a different series.
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Neutral Milk on March 09, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
Awesome I just finished Counterpart season 2 and was about to start altered carbon season 2. Good to know I shouldn't bother!
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on March 12, 2020, 11:24:10 PM
Stephen Spielberg's reboot of "Amazing Stories" started on AppleTV+ this week.

More like "Mediocre Stories" if the first episode is anything to go by  :-\ It was like a Hallmark channel movie with a slight sci-fi time travel twist.

Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: CarbShark on March 13, 2020, 10:48:00 AM
Stephen Spielberg's reboot of "Amazing Stories" started on AppleTV+ this week.

More like "Mediocre Stories" if the first episode is anything to go by  :-\ It was like a Hallmark channel movie with a slight sci-fi time travel twist.
The second one is a ghost story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: List of the Not the Very Best TV Shows
Post by: Tassie Dave on March 13, 2020, 06:23:16 PM
Stephen Spielberg's reboot of "Amazing Stories" started on AppleTV+ this week.

More like "Mediocre Stories" if the first episode is anything to go by  :-\ It was like a Hallmark channel movie with a slight sci-fi time travel twist.
The second one is a ghost story.

It was an improvement. Still not "Amazing"  ;) I would recommend this 2nd story to a teenage girl in my life.

Ep.1 was more Hallmark/Mills & Boon, this was more "Touched by an Angel", except not bad  ;)

I was happy that whenever it looked like slipping over into schmaltzy predictability, it managed to make a change and bring it back around.

I was hoping for more, something with an edge like "Black Mirror", but this has been aimed more for a family friendly audience, which is ok, but not what I wanted.