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The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe => Podcast Episodes => Topic started by: Steven Novella on February 17, 2018, 11:46:47 AM

Title: Episode #658
Post by: Steven Novella on February 17, 2018, 11:46:47 AM
News Items: Win Against Homeopathy, Life Beneath the Ice, Illuminati, Cancer-Fighting Nanorobots; What’s the Word: Presbyopia; Who’s That Noisy; Science or Fiction
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Igor SMC on February 17, 2018, 03:38:51 PM
Very interesting episode! But there was just one thing that I thought could be kinda misleading... Steven said that Aspartame is perfectly healthy... But I've heard otherwise. Our bodies are constantly calibrating the levels of absorption of calories against their taste. If you drink something with no calories and with a very sweet taste, you are signaling to your systems that it can increase calories absorption for sweets. Next time you eat something sweet, your body will therefore absorb more calories from it, comparing to what it would if you just drank the normal sugary drink. Depending on your drink/sugary-food ratio, this might increase your overall calories, instead of decreasing it.

I heard that only diabetic people should care about something being Diet or not.... Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 17, 2018, 05:07:04 PM
I have bionic eyes. Specifically I had cataract surgery: they remove the natural lens, clouded by the cataract, and replace it with an artificial lens. I went from having 20-400 vision, or 5% visual acuity, and both myopia and presbyopia as well as a lot of astigmatism, to having nearly 20-20 vision and almost no astigmatism. But I am severely presbyopic because the artificial lenses do not deform in response to the eye muscles the way young natural eye lenses do. It was a good trade-off and I can now see distant stuff better than I ever have.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 17, 2018, 05:09:54 PM
I think they talked about some deep-sea creatures. My next travel will be to Roatan, Honduras, to go down 2,000 feet in a home-made deep-sea submersible.

http://www.stanleysubmarines.com/

Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: brilligtove on February 17, 2018, 05:14:22 PM
Presbiopia: Steve is not entirely correct on the vision changes. My prescription for myopia got a little better in both eyes (from 3.50 to 3.25 on the right and 4.25 to 3.75 on the left). The dramatic difference has been the dramatic shift of the range I can actually see without correction. Before this I could see the hell out of something about 2-3cm from my uncorrected eyes. Now I can read my iPad at 15-45cm most days. Since I turned about 40 I have been able to read without glasses as a result.

Of course that means I need bifocal contacts, which I HIGHLY recommend.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: bachfiend on February 17, 2018, 05:35:27 PM
Very interesting episode! But there was just one thing that I thought could be kinda misleading... Steven said that Aspartame is perfectly healthy... But I've heard otherwise. Our bodies are constantly calibrating the levels of absorption of calories against their taste. If you drink something with no calories and with a very sweet taste, you are signaling to your systems that it can increase calories absorption for sweets. Next time you eat something sweet, your body will therefore absorb more calories from it, comparing to what it would if you just drank the normal sugary drink. Depending on your drink/sugary-food ratio, this might increase your overall calories, instead of decreasing it.

I heard that only diabetic people should care about something being Diet or not.... Does that make sense?

I think that that makes no sense.  Being able to digest and absorb a simple disaccharide such as sucrose should not be affected by whether you previously had something sweet.  To digest sucrose, you need sucrase.  To induce production of sucrase, previous sucrose will do it.  Aspartame won’t.

I think Aspartame might increase your calorie intake if it increases your taste for sweet foods. 
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 17, 2018, 06:12:11 PM
The big problem with artificial sweeteners is psychological: "I'm drinking diet pop so I can have an extra helping of french fries."
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: arthwollipot on February 17, 2018, 09:30:47 PM
I was a little surprised that none of the rogues had heard of Discordianism. I had kind of assumed that it was a staple of conspiracy theory, just like homeopathy is a staple of alt-med.

This is entirely a bias on my own part - because I know a lot about it, I tend to assume that others do too. However, that is rarely the case.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Igor SMC on February 17, 2018, 10:39:10 PM
From proper scientific peer-review articles from reputable sources.... Yes, artificial sweeteners DO alter the response of our bodies to other sugars. From I'm reading, it seems that if you do not have diabetes, it makes no sense to chose the Diet version of things.

Artificial sweeteners produce the counterintuitive effect of inducing metabolic derangements

Quote
This paper discusses these findings and considers the hypothesis that consuming sweet-tasting but noncaloric or reduced-calorie food and beverages interferes with learned responses that normally contribute to glucose and energy homeostasis. Because of this interference, frequent consumption of high-intensity sweeteners may have the counterintuitive effect of inducing metabolic derangements.
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772345/

Small study suggests consuming large amounts of artificial sweeteners may increase risk of developing type 2 diabetes
Quote
Artificial sweeteners can change the body's response to glucose when consumed in large amounts, and could add to the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, says new research.
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170913193141.htm

Artificial Sweeteners Alter Gut Response to Glucose

Quote
Habitual consumption of artificial sweeteners commonly found in diet drinks alters the gut's response to glucose — affecting absorption, glycemic response, and response of gut glucagonlike peptide 1 (GLP-1)
Source: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/885945


Of course, if you consume Diet things rarely, its perfectly ok. The problem starts if you combine lots of Diet foods with sugary stuff.... In this case, you are having a worse combination than the just going for the standard version of the sodas. Our brains evolved to associate sugar with high calories.... drinking a lot of sweet stuff with absolutely zero calories is bound to have an effect.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: thefirstorthodoxcaveman on February 17, 2018, 10:52:28 PM
For a long, twisted and interesting fictional take on the Illuminati - I recommend The Illuminati Trilogy - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy. Some people compare it to the Da Vinci Code - only more postmodern and awesome. For the slow readers ( such as me ) go for the abridged Audio book - the oration is amazing.
It introduced me to the following things: The Illuminati
Discordianism
Eschatology
The Nights Templar
The Freemasons
The Eye of Providence
In a satirical hyperbolic way. Too bad is is fiction because I would kill to have the golden submarine!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: bachfiend on February 17, 2018, 11:24:39 PM
From proper scientific peer-review articles from reputable sources.... Yes, artificial sweeteners DO alter the response of our bodies to other sugars. From I'm reading, it seems that if you do not have diabetes, it makes no sense to chose the Diet version of things.

Artificial sweeteners produce the counterintuitive effect of inducing metabolic derangements

Quote
This paper discusses these findings and considers the hypothesis that consuming sweet-tasting but noncaloric or reduced-calorie food and beverages interferes with learned responses that normally contribute to glucose and energy homeostasis. Because of this interference, frequent consumption of high-intensity sweeteners may have the counterintuitive effect of inducing metabolic derangements.
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772345/

Small study suggests consuming large amounts of artificial sweeteners may increase risk of developing type 2 diabetes
Quote
Artificial sweeteners can change the body's response to glucose when consumed in large amounts, and could add to the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, says new research.
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170913193141.htm

Artificial Sweeteners Alter Gut Response to Glucose

Quote
Habitual consumption of artificial sweeteners commonly found in diet drinks alters the gut's response to glucose — affecting absorption, glycemic response, and response of gut glucagonlike peptide 1 (GLP-1)
Source: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/885945


Of course, if you consume Diet things rarely, its perfectly ok. The problem starts if you combine lots of Diet foods with sugary stuff.... In this case, you are having a worse combination than the just going for the standard version of the sodas. Our brains evolved to assoc”iate sugar with high calories.... drinking a lot of sweet stuff with absolutely zero calories is bound to have an effect.

The first paper doesn’t exclude the possibility that the differences aren’t just behavioural - people who make a habit of consuming artificially sweet foods and beverages develop a preference for sweet stuff containing sugar.

The other two links are referring to the same study, which on face value is interesting albeit small (30 test subjects and 30 controls) and short term (2 weeks).  The artificial sweeteners (and placebo) were given in capsules before meals, so the subjects wouldn’t have been able to taste the added sweetness.  The controls seem to have had a 20% alteration in glucose after infusion of a glucose solution into the small bowel (why they didn’t do a standard glucose tolerance test is beyond me).

Another point is that glucose isn’t a major part of people’s diet.  I’d be more interested if the study demonstrated that giving artificial sweeteners affected the response to challenge with disaccharides such as sucrose, not a simple sugar such as glucose.

Both are based on press releases.  I would like to see the published article.  And it needs to be replicated.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 17, 2018, 11:46:24 PM
It sounds like poor house design to have the laundry upstairs, with 2 levels below.  ???


Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: bachfiend on February 18, 2018, 05:19:20 AM
It sounds like poor house design to have the laundry upstairs, with 2 levels below.  ???

I was thinking the same thing.  Although, I wonder if it’s an American thing, putting the laundry near the bedrooms (where most of the washing would be generated), if the washing is going to be dried in a dryer instead of an outside clothes line.

It’s certainly warned me that whenever I travel I should remember to turn off the water mains before I leave.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 18, 2018, 06:51:16 AM
It sounds like poor house design to have the laundry upstairs, with 2 levels below.  ???

I was thinking the same thing.  Although, I wonder if it’s an American thing, putting the laundry near the bedrooms (where most of the washing would be generated), if the washing is going to be dried in a dryer instead of an outside clothes line.

It’s certainly warned me that whenever I travel I should remember to turn off the water mains before I leave.
There are automatic water valves for just such a scenario.

https://www.plumbingsupply.com/washingmachineshutoffvalve.html

Which the American consumer would have learned about on a home improvement TV show, the same show that told you to put your washing machine in a foolish yet convenient location. Americans must be pampered, it is written, so the laundry chute that would have conveniently sent dirty clothing to the basement from the third floor for washing no longer serves that purpose if the home still has one.

Electric or gas clothes dryers are an abomination. You can line dry year round, outdoors or indoors, depending on the weather. Not every life situation permits this, but most homeowners could line dry. Makes your bathroom toweling as nice and crispy as a luffa. Would guess most people use dryers in the USA even on Earth day.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: lucek on February 18, 2018, 07:09:03 AM
Hey Steve if you are going to have a washer on the 2nd floor of your house you should look into automatic shutoffs.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013TMFQVS/ref=asc_df_B013TMFQVS5375334/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B013TMFQVS&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167164501807&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13970852820094733524&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002051&hvtargid=pla-275690502638

That is a cheap model for like 40 bucks that detects big leaks and cuts off the water. However there are more fancy one that rang into the hundreds of dollars with increasing lists of features.
Also consider a drained pan for under the washer for small leaks. Grand total like $60 and you can for the most part not worry about leaks.

Not sponsored btw. Just good advice for home owners.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: drproximo on February 18, 2018, 12:09:25 PM
I'm a Discordian, have been for over a decade. I won't go into any rant about how they barely touched the surface, and mildly misrepresented Discordianism. I would only ask that the rogues look into it at least enough to learn proper pronunciation. Principia Discordia. That first part has 3 i's, but the last one was omitted. Considering the title is an intentional and unambiguous reference to the Principia Mathematica, I would have assumed that there would be a passing familiarity with the term. And speaking of omitted i's, I'm pretty sure that someone said "Discordanism" at least once. It's Discordianism. Maybe someone had the word "discordant" stuck in the brain.

Oh well. Fnord.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 18, 2018, 12:23:37 PM
My washing machine is on the main floor, in the pantry room next to the kitchen. I had a leak once and got some water in the basement. But the leak was small and no damage was done other than some slight discoloration on a basement wall.

Shutting off the water before leaving on vacation is good practice, but in Steve's case, he was not on vacation. He was merely at work. Sorry to hear about the event and the damage.

I cannot use a clothes line. HOA rules. But I'm happy to have that excuse. I've used clothes lines in the past and it's a bother, and towels and underpants come out stiff, and then it rains and all the clothes are even wetter than when they come out of the machine.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 18, 2018, 01:17:22 PM
We shut off the water after each usage of the washing machine. Good exercise for the manually operated valves. No worries about leaking ever as we don't wash clothing when not at home. A flooded home isn't worth the repair cost or effort when prevention is a simple habit.

If outdoor clotheslines are not an option, you can line dry clothing indoors year round on portable folding racks but you will need good ventilation during warm or humid weather or your walls may get moldy from excessive humidity. We have an enclosed breezy porch where growing mold is not a factor. Using non-renewable energy to get fluffy towels seems a terrible bargain but it appears to be what many people choose.

In the US, some states have overruled homeowner association covenants, limiting them to specifying type of clotheslines -- retractable, temporary, therefore out of sight when not in use as one example. Putting away clotheslines when not in use is a courtesy that I can agree with. Our outdoor clothesline is similar to the Aussie rotary type, excepting it is a triangle and can handle lengthy bedding despite a relatively small size. It should last forever as it is kept indoors when not in use. The neighbors are presented the least opportunity to gawk at it.

There are situations where line drying may not be practical. As one example there are people with allergies who won't want pollen on their bedding, although indoor line drying may still be possible for them. And so forth. We do not own a dryer but I wouldn't scold those that have no other option.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: arthwollipot on February 18, 2018, 02:03:16 PM
For a long, twisted and interesting fictional take on the Illuminati - I recommend The Illuminati Trilogy - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illuminatus!_Trilogy. Some people compare it to the Da Vinci Code - only more postmodern and awesome. For the slow readers ( such as me ) go for the abridged Audio book - the oration is amazing.
It introduced me to the following things: The Illuminati
Discordianism
Eschatology
The Nights Templar
The Freemasons
The Eye of Providence
In a satirical hyperbolic way. Too bad is is fiction because I would kill to have the golden submarine!
That's where I got most of my initial knowledge too. It's about the weirdest trilogy ever, and kind of hard to read, for a lot of reasons. Fnord.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Martin Werr on February 18, 2018, 02:06:24 PM
Regarding Evan's question about hearing discordia on the radio: I wonder if he happened upon a broadcast(s) of Firesign Theatre. The comedy group produced many surreal albums in the 60s and 70s which featured sections that could easily fit Evan's description, particularly their literal excerpting of James Joyce's Ulysses. Joyce's works were pretty inaccessible and seemingly random. Regardless, Firesign Theatre had a habit of jumping about aimlessly, and I could see how someone who wasn't sure what they were listening to could be mystified.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: 2397 on February 18, 2018, 04:29:43 PM
Leaks, dryers, haven't listened to the podcast yet, but on those topics;

I discovered a water leak because of a light that was out (in a house I wasn't living in, incidentally, but a neighbor house with no one else in it at the time). Water was spraying from a pipe running along the ceiling in the basement, and into a light switch so the circuit breaker went. Same circuit as a ground floor hallway light. Lucky that the pipes were "open", or that could've built up a lot more before I noticed. Not so lucky that the main valve was falling apart and wasn't functioning. Ended up having to to turn off the pressure tank and run a tap until it stopped.

And I mainly use the dryer for towels. They become coarse otherwise. Not sure what the alternative is. At least it's hydropowered.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Keovar on February 18, 2018, 09:16:49 PM
I'm a Discordian, have been for over a decade.
Me too, a couple decades now. 

Rogues: It’s not a conspiracy or religion so much as it’s a send-up or parody of those things.  If you like Monty Python (and Douglas Adams, since he did a lot of writing for them) or the Absurdism of Albert Camus, you’ll probably like the Principia Discordia. 
https://principiadiscordia.com/book/1.php

My favorite is the primer for Erisian Evangelists. (Eris = Greek, Discordia = Roman)
———————
A PRIMER FOR ERISIAN EVANGELISTS by Lord Omar

        The SOCRATIC APPROACH is most successful when confronting the ignorant. The "socratic approach" is what you call starting an argument by asking questions. You approach the innocent and simply ask "Did you know that God's name is ERIS, and that He is a girl?" If he should answer "Yes." then he probably is a fellow Erisian and so you can forget it. If he says "No." then quickly proceed to:
        THE BLIND ASSERTION and say "Well, He Is a girl, and His name is ERIS!" Shrewedly observe if the subject is convinced. If he is, swear him into the Legion of Dynamic Discord before he changes his mind. If he does not appear convinced, then proceed to:
        THE FAITH BIT: "But you must have Faith! All is lost without Faith! I sure feel sorry for you if you don't have Faith." And then add:
        THE ARGUMENT BY FEAR and in an ominous voice ask "Do you know what happens to those who deny Goddess?" If he hesitates, don't tell him that he will surely be reincarnated as a precious Mao Button and distributed to the poor in the Region of Thud (which would be a mean thing to say), just shake your head sadly and, while wiping a tear from your eye, go to:
        THE FIRST CLAUSE PLOY wherein you point to all of the discord and confusion in the world and exclaim "Well who the hell do you think did all of this, wise guy?" If he says, "Nobody, just impersonal forces." then quickly respond with:
        THE ARGUMENT BY SEMANTICAL GYMNASTICS and say that he is absolutely right, and that those impersonal forces are female and that Her name is ERIS. If he, wonder of wonders, still remains obstinate, then finally resort to:
        THE FIGURATIVE SYMBOLISM DODGE and confide that sophisticated people like himself recognize that Eris is a Figurative Symbol for an Ineffable Metaphysical Reality and that The Erisian Movement is really more like a poem than like a science and that he is liable to be turned into a Precious Mao Button and Distributed to The Poor in The Region of Thud if he does not get hip. Then put him on your mailing list.
———-
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Swagomatic on February 19, 2018, 10:37:19 AM
My washing machine is on the main floor, in the pantry room next to the kitchen. I had a leak once and got some water in the basement. But the leak was small and no damage was done other than some slight discoloration on a basement wall.

Shutting off the water before leaving on vacation is good practice, but in Steve's case, he was not on vacation. He was merely at work. Sorry to hear about the event and the damage.

I cannot use a clothes line. HOA rules. But I'm happy to have that excuse. I've used clothes lines in the past and it's a bother, and towels and underpants come out stiff, and then it rains and all the clothes are even wetter than when they come out of the machine.

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 19, 2018, 03:30:14 PM
My washing machine is on the main floor, in the pantry room next to the kitchen. I had a leak once and got some water in the basement. But the leak was small and no damage was done other than some slight discoloration on a basement wall.

Shutting off the water before leaving on vacation is good practice, but in Steve's case, he was not on vacation. He was merely at work. Sorry to hear about the event and the damage.

I cannot use a clothes line. HOA rules. But I'm happy to have that excuse. I've used clothes lines in the past and it's a bother, and towels and underpants come out stiff, and then it rains and all the clothes are even wetter than when they come out of the machine.

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.

Thanks.

Yep, braided steel except the washing machine, which has rubber hoses, but also shut-off valves so I can shut them off before the hoses.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Alex Simmons on February 19, 2018, 04:17:46 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.
Braided steel hoses fail as well. Insurance companies warn about them as being one of the bigger causes of home flooding.
https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe-can-cause-thousands-of-dollars-of-water-damage-to-your-home.html
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Swagomatic on February 19, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.
Braided steel hoses fail as well. Insurance companies warn about them as being one of the bigger causes of home flooding.
https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe-can-cause-thousands-of-dollars-of-water-damage-to-your-home.html

I think the bottom line is that having a pressurized water connection in your home is a risk, and all plumbing connections need to be maintained. Nothing lasts forever.

I maintain, though, that the braided steel supplies are much less prone to leakage and blowout than the old compression style connections.  Also the braided steel washing machine connectors are far superior to the old style rubber hoses. Remember, entropy is out there, it never sleeps, and it WILL bite you in the ass.
 
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: brilligtove on February 19, 2018, 05:44:29 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.
Braided steel hoses fail as well. Insurance companies warn about them as being one of the bigger causes of home flooding.
https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe-can-cause-thousands-of-dollars-of-water-damage-to-your-home.html

I think the bottom line is that having a pressurized water connection in your home is a risk, and all plumbing connections need to be maintained. Nothing lasts forever.

I maintain, though, that the braided steel supplies are much less prone to leakage and blowout than the old compression style connections.  Also the braided steel washing machine connectors are far superior to the old style rubber hoses. Remember, entropy is out there, it never sleeps, and it WILL bite you in the ass.

Holy Mispelt Fish!

(https://morbotron.com/gif/S02E04/337776/339861.gif?b64lines=QklURSBNWSBTSElOWSBNRVRBTCBBU1Mu)

Either Bender is entropy or everyone else is entropy and bender is pure order??!?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 19, 2018, 06:12:52 PM
I think Steven should post photos of his ceiling damage. We once had a neighbor living above us who knocked over a keg of beer. Beer started dripping from our ceiling and then later (and quite suddenly) the plaster let go of the lath and a huge area of plaster crashed to the floor in our living room. What a mess. That neighbor was evicted.

An earlier commenter mentioned installing a drain pan for the washing machine -- that would seem to me to be mandatory in such an installation once Steven's home has been repaired. Don't chance getting soaked again.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Alex Simmons on February 19, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned, but take a minute and inspect your washing machine connectors.  If they aren't braided steel and in good shape, replace them.  It's well worth the time and expense.  The old style rubber hose connectors wear out.

Also, check your lavatory, sink and toilet connectors.  They should all be the braided steel type.  They aren't super expensive, and the average Joe/Jane can easily replace them.  Again, the old style compression type fittings can blow out fairly easily.
Braided steel hoses fail as well. Insurance companies warn about them as being one of the bigger causes of home flooding.
https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe-can-cause-thousands-of-dollars-of-water-damage-to-your-home.html

I think the bottom line is that having a pressurized water connection in your home is a risk, and all plumbing connections need to be maintained. Nothing lasts forever.

I maintain, though, that the braided steel supplies are much less prone to leakage and blowout than the old compression style connections.  Also the braided steel washing machine connectors are far superior to the old style rubber hoses. Remember, entropy is out there, it never sleeps, and it WILL bite you in the ass.
Oh I agree they will be better than the old style hoses for washing machines. I was more thinking more about sinks and toilets where the old style was fixed copper pipe, now days they install the hoses instead. Pipes would last way longer than those hoses ever would.

And yes, good idea to turn off the mains if away for some time.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: fuzzyMarmot on February 19, 2018, 08:02:15 PM
I hope that the SGU keeps us appraised of the financial repercussions of the water damage. I ceased contributing money to the SGU because of the association with Marc Randazza, but I'd be happy to chip in for a campaign where the funds are directed to helping rebuild.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 19, 2018, 08:11:55 PM
I hope that the SGU keeps us appraised of the financial repercussions of the water damage. I ceased contributing money to the SGU because of the association with Marc Randazza, but I'd be happy to chip in for a campaign where the funds are directed to helping rebuild.
That was his private home, pretty sure he can handle it. But I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 20, 2018, 12:58:32 AM
I still maintain it's poor home design  ;)

The 2 times I've had a major water issue in the laundry, I've been glad my laundry is in a separate building from the main house, on a concrete pad, on the lowest edge of my property with drainage directly into a storm water drain. Oh and I'm also glad there was no wiring in the lower half of the laundry.

Think of the worst that can go wrong with water, because eventually it will and mitigate for least damage.






Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: lucek on February 20, 2018, 06:55:35 AM
Not to be insensitive but this was a moderate leak and he has insurance. Out of pocked he's probably going to have to shell a few hundred to a grand. It sucks but not something that requires a gofundme.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 20, 2018, 09:05:30 AM
I still maintain it's poor home design  ;)

The 2 times I've had a major water issue in the laundry, I've been glad my laundry is in a separate building from the main house, on a concrete pad, on the lowest edge of my property with drainage directly into a storm water drain. Oh and I'm also glad there was no wiring in the lower half of the laundry.

Think of the worst that can go wrong with water, because eventually it will and mitigate for least damage.

His was a poor implementation certainly. We too wanted some convenience so our washing machine is located out on an insulated enclosed porch. Gets cold but does not freeze and if the water were to leak it's a step down from the main floor of our single story home. The plumber and carpenter guided us to this solution, knowing plenty of examples of Dr. Novella's small disaster. A Connecticut Plumber Gave Steven a Bum Steer reads the headline.

Do you have a Hills Hoist? Whereas in the USA people try to discourage line drying, in Australia it appears celebrated.

(https://i.colnect.net/b/666/247/Hills-Hoist.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 20, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
... I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?

What privately-held company provides such information? SGU is a company that provides a product (the podcast and occasional other content). It's available for free with ads, or you can pay for an ad-free version and occasional additional "premium" content. Beyond that you can donate if you feel so inclined. There's no particular reason they should disclose their finances.

I donate because I really like what they do. I hope they make buckets of money from it, considering how much work they put into it (especially Steve, with the editing). But I doubt they make all that much.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 20, 2018, 10:13:54 AM
... I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?

What privately-held company provides such information? SGU is a company that provides a product (the podcast and occasional other content). It's available for free with ads, or you can pay for an ad-free version and occasional additional "premium" content. Beyond that you can donate if you feel so inclined. There's no particular reason they should disclose their finances.

I donate because I really like what they do. I hope they make buckets of money from it, considering how much work they put into it (especially Steve, with the editing). But I doubt they make all that much.
The claim has been made that they would drop the ads if they received enough donations. For that I want transparency. Why donate to an LLC? What privately held companies ask for that?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Swagomatic on February 20, 2018, 10:23:28 AM
I still maintain it's poor home design  ;)

The 2 times I've had a major water issue in the laundry, I've been glad my laundry is in a separate building from the main house, on a concrete pad, on the lowest edge of my property with drainage directly into a storm water drain. Oh and I'm also glad there was no wiring in the lower half of the laundry.

Think of the worst that can go wrong with water, because eventually it will and mitigate for least damage.

Having a washer on the second floor is definitely not a common design.  Most homes have the washer and water heater in or near the garage, or in a utility room on the ground floor.  That being said, there are plenty of multi story apartments with washing machines, so it's not unheard of.  It's a good reminder for everyone to check the connections on all of your fixtures with a water supply.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Ah.hell on February 20, 2018, 12:11:14 PM
Reminds me of a place i rented in college.  The sewer backed up and flooded the basement, there was a water fall down the entertainment center.

In retrospect it was probably just stormwater, it didn't stink nearly enough to be sewage, I still tell the story that way, its funnier. 
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: gebobs on February 20, 2018, 01:03:32 PM
I would only ask that the rogues look into it at least enough to learn proper pronunciation. Principia Discordia. That first part has 3 i's, but the last one was omitted. Considering the title is an intentional and unambiguous reference to the Principia Mathematica, I would have assumed that there would be a passing familiarity with the term.

LOL...I've never heard of it but the reference seemed obvious to me. While they never pass up a chance to correct Jay's frequent mispronunciations, I was surprised no one called Evan on this. Surely they all have some text in front of them and they all surely know the pronunciation is Principia.

On another note, I liked the quote from Rosalind Franklin. I'm sure it occurred to her every time she made a sammich for Watson and Crick. ;-)
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 20, 2018, 01:10:15 PM
... I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?

What privately-held company provides such information? SGU is a company that provides a product (the podcast and occasional other content). It's available for free with ads, or you can pay for an ad-free version and occasional additional "premium" content. Beyond that you can donate if you feel so inclined. There's no particular reason they should disclose their finances.

I donate because I really like what they do. I hope they make buckets of money from it, considering how much work they put into it (especially Steve, with the editing). But I doubt they make all that much.
The claim has been made that they would drop the ads if they received enough donations. For that I want transparency. Why donate to an LLC? What privately held companies ask for that?

There is no reason to donate, unless you like the show enough that you want to give them money for it. I give them money because I feel like it. You should not give them money unless you, too, feel like it. Otherwise, listen to the free version if you enjoy the show.

It's a lot like a street busker. He plays an instrument on the street corner. Should you give him money? There is no "should" or "should not." You give him money if his music is so enjoyable to you that you feel like giving him money.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Alex Simmons on February 20, 2018, 05:22:02 PM
Do you have a Hills Hoist?

Most homes with decent sized yards have a version of one. We have one and it's currently full of clothes very wet from the rain that happened before I was able to bring them in.

We also have a dryer as it's not always practical to dry everything on a line or rack and at times we can have extended rain periods and high humidity making drying everything in a reasonable time all but impossible. Our dryer carked it recently and so we'll be upgrading to a new one soon. It'll likely be a heat pump condenser dryer and will be used when we can't line dry.

Our home is all on one level. The laundry floor has a floor drain like in the bathroom/shower, and the floor tiles have a fall line to the drain to the main wastewater. Standard set up for wet rooms here. Any upstairs wet room must have a floor drain to the main wastewater and the floor and walls must have underfloor (usually under tiles) waterproofing.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Tassie Dave on February 21, 2018, 02:29:15 AM
Do you have a Hills Hoist? Whereas in the USA people try to discourage line drying, in Australia it appears celebrated.

(https://i.colnect.net/b/666/247/Hills-Hoist.jpg)

I've never lived in a house that didn't have one.

Even though I live in an area where it rains 5 days a week on average, you don't waste the chance to dry clothes for free  ;)
The only thing I use a dryer for is towels.

I love that stamp. You are not a real Aussie kid if you've never swung around on a Hill's Hoist.  8) Never when mum's around though  ;D
Though that girl is using it wrong.  ;) It's obviously locked in position. It has to be wound up to release those teeth at the top
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: God Bomb on February 21, 2018, 09:08:18 PM
Discordianism?  What's that?  Sounds fun... people on a skeptic site are following this?   Can someone sum it up for me in 1 sentence, or provide a video so I can passively learn about it while making zero effort?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: lucek on February 22, 2018, 06:45:54 AM
... I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?

What privately-held company provides such information? SGU is a company that provides a product (the podcast and occasional other content). It's available for free with ads, or you can pay for an ad-free version and occasional additional "premium" content. Beyond that you can donate if you feel so inclined. There's no particular reason they should disclose their finances.

I donate because I really like what they do. I hope they make buckets of money from it, considering how much work they put into it (especially Steve, with the editing). But I doubt they make all that much.
The claim has been made that they would drop the ads if they received enough donations. For that I want transparency. Why donate to an LLC? What privately held companies ask for that?
For note the NESS is a non-profit educational organization and is run at a loss from my understanding. Or at least it was for like 20 years. So yeah these are actual donations unlike 90% of "donations" on kickstarter indygogo or patrion. You don't have to donate that's the point after all.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 22, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
... I do wish there was transparency regarding operations of the SGU/NESS and related entities. What are the costs, what is the income? You are hawking products, what are they paying you?

What privately-held company provides such information? SGU is a company that provides a product (the podcast and occasional other content). It's available for free with ads, or you can pay for an ad-free version and occasional additional "premium" content. Beyond that you can donate if you feel so inclined. There's no particular reason they should disclose their finances.

I donate because I really like what they do. I hope they make buckets of money from it, considering how much work they put into it (especially Steve, with the editing). But I doubt they make all that much.
The claim has been made that they would drop the ads if they received enough donations. For that I want transparency. Why donate to an LLC? What privately held companies ask for that?
For note the NESS is a non-profit educational organization and is run at a loss from my understanding. Or at least it was for like 20 years. So yeah these are actual donations unlike 90% of "donations" on kickstarter indygogo or patrion. You don't have to donate that's the point after all.
NESS is not SGU Productions LLC. I said I want transparency. If they don't want to provide it, that's their prerogative.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: CarbShark on February 22, 2018, 10:36:11 AM
Nothing wrong with a laundry room on the second floor, but there should be precautions taken like an automatic shut off valve or a floor drain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: drproximo on February 22, 2018, 03:16:10 PM
Discordianism?  What's that?  Sounds fun... people on a skeptic site are following this?   Can someone sum it up for me in 1 sentence, or provide a video so I can passively learn about it while making zero effort?

It's a pretend religion that people participate in to make fun of religion, while also poking fun at themselves and humanity in general.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: 2397 on February 22, 2018, 04:12:49 PM
Nothing wrong with a laundry room on the second floor, but there should be precautions taken like an automatic shut off valve or a floor drain.

There are laundry rooms without floor drains?
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: DevoutCatalyst on February 22, 2018, 04:17:14 PM
Nothing wrong with a laundry room on the second floor, but there should be precautions taken like an automatic shut off valve or a floor drain.

There are laundry rooms without floor drains?
Yes, but only until a bad leak creates one through the ceiling below.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: CarbShark on February 22, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
Nothing wrong with a laundry room on the second floor, but there should be precautions taken like an automatic shut off valve or a floor drain.

There are laundry rooms without floor drains?

Yes, on second floors with no extraneous leak detection or shut-off systems.

Just ask  :steve:
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: God Bomb on February 22, 2018, 07:51:33 PM
the problem I often find with water is it's tendency to flow downhill.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: daniel1948 on February 22, 2018, 08:19:25 PM
According to a leaflet from the Jubilee Sailing Trust, water is usually cold and often wet; and if you blow on it hard enough, it becomes very lumpy.

The cold part is not always true, which is why I like Maui and Belize. But when it gets lumpy it can be unpleasant. In the mountains, it's quite nice that it flows downhill. Flowing downhill mostly seems to be a problem when we bring it into our houses.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Alex Simmons on February 22, 2018, 10:33:55 PM
the problem I often find with water is it's tendency to flow downhill.
It does tends to find its way to the bottom of a gravity well, or at least to the local minima.
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: Swagomatic on February 22, 2018, 10:59:21 PM
the problem I often find with water is it's tendency to flow downhill.
It does tends to find its way to the bottom of a gravity well, or at least to the local minima.

Reminds me of the two things all plumbers need to know:  Shit flows downhill & payday is Friday.

(I'm allowed to make that joke, I come from a long line of plumbers)
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: gebobs on February 26, 2018, 11:51:10 AM

Reminds me of the two things all plumbers need to know:  Shit flows downhill & payday is Friday.

(I'm allowed to make that joke, I come from a long line of plumbers)

Thanks. I was on the verge of accusing you of antiplumbitism. ;-)
Title: Re: Episode #658
Post by: RMoore on February 28, 2018, 12:06:03 PM

Reminds me of the two things all plumbers need to know:  Shit flows downhill & payday is Friday.

(I'm allowed to make that joke, I come from a long line of plumbers)

Thanks. I was on the verge of accusing you of antiplumbitism. ;-)

Next he'll be saying they should have their own schools.