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Media => TV & Movies => Topic started by: brilligtove on April 25, 2019, 04:58:26 PM

Title: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on April 25, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
I'm leaving for the theatre in about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on April 25, 2019, 09:59:40 PM
Not a wasted frame. Deliberate pacing. Character driven hilarity on occasion. Dark intensity and struggle. Tragedies, expected and very surprising.

Wow. Wow wow wow.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Calinthalus on April 29, 2019, 09:22:03 AM
Really dug it.  There is a lot packed into the one movie so I really want to watch it again.


My theater was packed, but was really into it.  There were a few breakouts of applause (Cap with Mjolnir, Thanos getting the powder treatment etc) and everyone laughed in all the right places.  After the Iron Man snap, there was a quick applause followed by complete silence interrupted by occasional sniffles.  It played really well.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Rai on May 02, 2019, 04:41:24 AM
Despite my rotten mood these days, I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, with a few caveats. The pacing was really solid for something this long, the payoffs and closures were masterful and in general, it was a fantastic closure of this MCU segment or whatever it can be called. I loved the twist in the end, even if I found out about it very early on (it was clearly telegraphed). I honestly never imagined anyone could pull off such a feat.

What I did not like was making a joke out of Thor's depression and weight gain. It was surprisingly offensive and not funny in any way, especially if you've been there yourself.

Alos, this film has a woman problem (nothing new to the MCU). I like Nebula's arc, but the others are a different matter. Nat gets killed because she is not the one with a family and then she doesn't even get properly mourned (unlike Tony) on screen, nor any proper closure for her characer arc. Everyone else is just sidelined: Captain Marvel does basically two things and disappears in between them for most of the running time. Gamora, Valkyre, Okoye and Wasp barely have any lines. And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Paul Blevins Jr. on May 02, 2019, 02:36:45 PM
Over all I enjoyed this. As a hardcore FOOMer* from the seventies, I could write pages about it. But I'll just mention a few things.

I wish to Odin we could get a Thor closer to the regal. majestic, mature, intelligent character in the comics rather than the buffoon this movie and Ragnarok have made him into, and which seems to be the direction for his character forward if he continues in the films. Why can't Millennial audiences accept a Thor played straight??!??  Why do they have to mock and tear him down?

I really could have done without Captain America admiring his own ass. But Steve Rogers, a man who came of age in the 1930/40s, is totally comfortable consoling an openly gay man! Another subtle example of Cap's sterling moral core and why he's worthy to wield Mjolnir.

Finally Cap gets to call out "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!" on film and with half the Marvel Universe behind him. Loved it.

 More later. Maybe.

*FOOM--Friend of O'l Marvel--the company's fan cub in the seventies.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: drwfishesman on May 02, 2019, 05:07:02 PM
Just saw it and still processing....but did Capt. America make out with his own granddaughter? He did, right?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: drwfishesman on May 02, 2019, 05:10:18 PM
If he went back and married Peggy, who is Sharon/Agent 13's grandmother and Steve made out with Sharon in Winter Soldier...............I'm just sayin'......whaaaaat?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on May 02, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
Thor played straight (even in the comics) was always a problem for me (not a millenial depending on which definition you use).
I guess that character is just hokey in the context of the world he finds himself in? The more loose and fun version suits me but they do push it to the extent that I wonder why the fuck he is still worthy? (Meritocracy my ass :P)

I dont really want to see Hercules in the MCU but I would LOVE if they paired Thor up with Amadeus Cho!
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Guillermo on May 03, 2019, 09:59:20 AM
If he went back and married Peggy, who is Sharon/Agent 13's grandmother and Steve made out with Sharon in Winter Soldier...............I'm just sayin'......whaaaaat?
From what I can tell he created a parallel universe where Sharon would have likely not existed, maybe.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: drwfishesman on May 03, 2019, 01:16:10 PM
If he went back and married Peggy, who is Sharon/Agent 13's grandmother and Steve made out with Sharon in Winter Soldier...............I'm just sayin'......whaaaaat?
From what I can tell he created a parallel universe where Sharon would have likely not existed, maybe.

Well, that seems to make sense. Still Steve must have been hoping for a f'n boy when his grandkids were born. Otherwise....yayow!

Some other questions:

Loki?
Gamora....will GotG Vol. 3 sort this out? With Thor in tow?
Was the gal-only scene a wee-bit pandering?

Statements:

Black-widow didn't get her due. Though I did appreciate her clinical, professional approach to what had to be done. She was a pro..RIP.
Nebula is a bad-ass period, straight-up killed her younger self because it had to be done, no f'n around. Probably will be overlooked how much bad assery it took to do that.
Took a straight, fully-powered Infinity-gauntlet punch from Thanos to take Capt. Marvel out of the fight. Awesome.
Thought I was actually going to lose it at Stark's Funeral. The hits kept coming. Even the kid from the second film was there.

Overall well done. Interested to see what the future holds.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Calinthalus on May 03, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Yeah, that girl power moment felt really pandery.  "look how woke we is!"  It's hard to forgive them for sidelining Nat for as long as they have, and now we have a prequel movie coming of her...which should have been made YEARS ago.  Tell me how Ant-Man gets a movie before the second Avenger to appear in the franchise?  Always the brides maid, never the bride...
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: drwfishesman on May 03, 2019, 03:16:49 PM
Yeah, that girl power moment felt really pandery.  "look how woke we is!"  It's hard to forgive them for sidelining Nat for as long as they have, and now we have a prequel movie coming of her...which should have been made YEARS ago.  Tell me how Ant-Man gets a movie before the second Avenger to appear in the franchise?  Always the brides maid, never the bride...

If we're talking seniority, Widow and Hawkeye were members of the Avengers Initiative before everyone including Iron Man...It could be argued that Capt. America was the original Avenger because of the program that made him I suppose.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Paul Blevins Jr. on May 03, 2019, 03:17:10 PM
Thoughts about Black Widow and the Soul Stone:

It's established that the Soul Stone can't be taken from it's resting place on...wherever, I forget the name of the planet now....unless another soul is exchanged as "payment".

But Cap is going back in time to return the Stone.....does the exchange still work? Could he get Nat back? (who the hell established all this rigmarole anyway??? The Celestials? Why???) Maybe the Black Widow isn't a prequel after all....

And would the Red Skull still be there when Steve shows up to return the Stone? Skull was there to guard the Stone...but with no Stone present is he still bound to the planet? In the comics, they would use this as a plot hook to return the Skull to Earth and resume being a menace.

Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Paul Blevins Jr. on May 03, 2019, 03:22:25 PM
Any thoughts on why Carol Danvers appears not to have aged in twenty-odd years??
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Rai on May 03, 2019, 04:33:56 PM
And would the Red Skull still be there when Steve shows up to return the Stone? Skull was there to guard the Stone...but with no Stone present is he still bound to the planet? In the comics, they would use this as a plot hook to return the Skull to Earth and resume being a menace.

Also, think about the awkward moment of the Cap - Red Skull reunion.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on May 03, 2019, 05:47:44 PM
If he went back and married Peggy, who is Sharon/Agent 13's grandmother and Steve made out with Sharon in Winter Soldier...............I'm just sayin'......whaaaaat?
From what I can tell he created a parallel universe where Sharon would have likely not existed, maybe.

Well, that seems to make sense. Still Steve must have been hoping for a f'n boy when his grandkids were born. Otherwise....yayow!

Some other questions:

Loki?
Gamora....will GotG Vol. 3 sort this out? With Thor in tow?
Was the gal-only scene a wee-bit pandering?

Statements:

Black-widow didn't get her due. Though I did appreciate her clinical, professional approach to what had to be done. She was a pro..RIP.
Nebula is a bad-ass period, straight-up killed her younger self because it had to be done, no f'n around. Probably will be overlooked how much bad assery it took to do that.
Took a straight, fully-powered Infinity-gauntlet punch from Thanos to take Capt. Marvel out of the fight. Awesome.
Thought I was actually going to lose it at Stark's Funeral. The hits kept coming. Even the kid from the second film was there.

Overall well done. Interested to see what the future holds.
Loki is getting his own dimension hopping mischief show.

I think Hemsworth doesnt want to do more Thor movies but is open to cameos so this sets that up I guess? He can be in the next movie or not.

Black Widow is getting a prequel but yeah...I felt cheated there too. Tony gets a funeral, she gets a bench in a lake.

I think Gamora will be addressed in GOTG 3? Maybe?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: The Latinist on May 05, 2019, 08:17:58 PM
What I did not like was making a joke out of Thor's depression and weight gain. It was surprisingly offensive and not funny in any way, especially if you've been there yourself.

As someone who has struggled both with depression and weight all of my adult life, I did not find it offensive at all.  I thought it humanized the character, and I very much enjoyed it.

Quote
Captain Marvel does basically two things and disappears in between them for most of the running time.

Captain Marvel is such a powerful character that she would have overshadowed all of the other Avengers in a film that was meant to be their swan song. And remember that her duties span galaxies. I thought it was perfectly reasonable for her to leave Earth to the Avengers and to return only when she knew that she might be needed.

I wish to Odin we could get a Thor closer to the regal. majestic, mature, intelligent character in the comics rather than the buffoon this movie and Ragnarok have made him into, and which seems to be the direction for his character forward if he continues in the films. Why can't Millennial audiences accept a Thor played straight??!??  Why do they have to mock and tear him down?

I don't think he was mocked or torn down. I thought he was delightfully human and endearing, and that he served as the audience's emotional grounding in the film. I'm not a millennial, but he was one of my favorite parts of this film.  Forgive me, but I think that perhaps you boomers ought to get the sticks out of your asses.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: CookieMustard on May 05, 2019, 09:45:14 PM


Captain Marvel is such a powerful character that she would have overshadowed all of the other Avengers in a film that was meant to be her swan song...

I don't follow. How was this supposed to be her swan song?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: The Latinist on May 06, 2019, 12:00:47 AM


Captain Marvel is such a powerful character that she would have overshadowed all of the other Avengers in a film that was meant to be her swan song...

I don't follow. How was this supposed to be her swan song?

That was a typo. It should have read 'their.' I've fixed it.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 07, 2019, 11:54:55 PM
Over all I enjoyed this. As a hardcore FOOMer* from the seventies, I could write pages about it. But I'll just mention a few things.

I wish to Odin we could get a Thor closer to the regal. majestic, mature, intelligent character in the comics rather than the buffoon this movie and Ragnarok have made him into, and which seems to be the direction for his character forward if he continues in the films. Why can't Millennial audiences accept a Thor played straight??!??  Why do they have to mock and tear him down?

I really could have done without Captain America admiring his own ass. But Steve Rogers, a man who came of age in the 1930/40s, is totally comfortable consoling an openly gay man! Another subtle example of Cap's sterling moral core and why he's worthy to wield Mjolnir.

Finally Cap gets to call out "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!" on film and with half the Marvel Universe behind him. Loved it.

 More later. Maybe.

*FOOM--Friend of O'l Marvel--the company's fan cub in the seventies.

Despite my rotten mood these days, I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, with a few caveats. The pacing was really solid for something this long, the payoffs and closures were masterful and in general, it was a fantastic closure of this MCU segment or whatever it can be called. I loved the twist in the end, even if I found out about it very early on (it was clearly telegraphed). I honestly never imagined anyone could pull off such a feat.

What I did not like was making a joke out of Thor's depression and weight gain. It was surprisingly offensive and not funny in any way, especially if you've been there yourself.

Alos, this film has a woman problem (nothing new to the MCU). I like Nebula's arc, but the others are a different matter. Nat gets killed because she is not the one with a family and then she doesn't even get properly mourned (unlike Tony) on screen, nor any proper closure for her characer arc. Everyone else is just sidelined: Captain Marvel does basically two things and disappears in between them for most of the running time. Gamora, Valkyre, Okoye and Wasp barely have any lines. And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

Thor
Thor played straight was done in The Dark World - almost universally viewed as the worst movie in the MCU. Whether it's Hemsworth as an actor or the character or both, this MCU Thor is a ton more better as a bit of a goof.

I saw it for the second time on Saturday and was even more impressed with the portrayal of Thor. He did funny things - as he did in most of the movies - but his condition was something that was treated as serious, real, and worthy of sympathy (except by Rocket). His friends tried to give him advice, support, and chances to build confidence. The fact that he is fundamentally a buffoon complicates this, but it was there before he fell into despair.

Black Widow
The mission she died for was not over. My guts dropped when I realized who was going for the Soul Stone, and what that meant. Nat's scene on the dock was deeply moving for me. I don't think they cheated her memory or the pain of her loss. They were still in the middle of it all when they gathered to mourn her. After two viewings I agree with what the creators have said about her sacrifice being something her character earned (in a narrative sense). "Let's make it worth it."

Bucky and Cap
Bucky knew Cap was going to tap out. He also knew Steve would choose Falcon. The timeline shenanigans should be cleared up in the next Because Science, but I'm pretty sure the continuity is consistent, Steve didn't bang his granddaughter, and Bucky's past is not the same as it was.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on May 08, 2019, 05:24:05 AM
I still think Caps happy life happened in another timeline. Nothing changed in the MCU timeline at all.
Sharon Carter is Peggys niece in the MCU btw which would probably still have been awkward but it was in Caps past and there is zero chance even if Im wrong about timelines that they could be related (unless he cheated on Peggy!).
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 08, 2019, 07:21:04 AM
I've seen speculation that Gamora and Black Widow are in the microverse inside the Soul Stone, so they'll be back.

If Disney sees a profit in them doing so.

Which there is.

So they will.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: mindme on May 08, 2019, 08:18:35 AM
I love how this film probably triggers MRA and white nationalists. Notably, the new Captain America seems to now be a black man. Captain Marvel and an army of women save the day.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: The Latinist on May 08, 2019, 08:22:44 AM
I've seen speculation that Gamora and Black Widow are in the microverse inside the Soul Stone, so they'll be back.

If Disney sees a profit in them doing so.

Which there is.

So they will.

They don't need to bring back Gomorrah because they have past!Gomorrah and the interesting question of whether she'll be led inevitably back to the Guardians/Quinn.  I highly doubt they'll bring back Black Widow in future Avengers films; instead, they'll use her in stand-alone prequel films.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 08, 2019, 08:25:55 AM
I love how this film probably triggers MRA and white nationalists. Notably, the new Captain America seems to now be a black man. Captain Marvel and an army of women save the day.
Wait until Morgan takes up the Ironman duties.  :D
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Rai on May 08, 2019, 08:37:53 AM
I've seen speculation that Gamora and Black Widow are in the microverse inside the Soul Stone, so they'll be back.

If Disney sees a profit in them doing so.

Which there is.

So they will.

They don't need to bring back Gomorrah because they have past!Gomorrah and the interesting question of whether she'll be led inevitably back to the Guardians/Quinn.  I highly doubt they'll bring back Black Widow in future Avengers films; instead, they'll use her in stand-alone prequel films.

Also prime timeline Gamora is gone, because Thanos destroyed that soul stone.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 08, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
The Guardians threequel will pop her back into existence.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: wastrel on May 08, 2019, 06:24:47 PM
The Guardians threequel will pop her back into existence.

Why?  It doesn't need to.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 09, 2019, 04:27:32 AM
The Guardians threequel will pop her back into existence.

Why?  It doesn't need to.
Well, they're already filming #3 and she's onset in makeup, so they will need to do that in some fashion.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on May 09, 2019, 04:52:32 AM
That seems likely to be the version of Gamora from the alternate timeline though is the point. I think.
She was who Quill was searching for at the end of the last movie and she has no idea who any of them are.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 09, 2019, 05:40:18 AM
"Wheels within wheels, mysteries within mysteries." I just hope they don't make it too unbelievable.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Ah.hell on May 09, 2019, 09:20:01 AM
"Wheels within wheels, mysteries within mysteries." I just hope they don't make it too unbelievable.
I chuckled, thank you.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 09, 2019, 10:55:23 AM
"Wheels within wheels, mysteries within mysteries." I just hope they don't make it too unbelievable.
I chuckled, thank you.
Hey! I took my comics seriously. Well, at least until I turned 13.

But the garbage compactor between my ears surprised me when I saw the new Spiderman trailer. I saw a guy flying around with a goldfish bowl on his head.

"Hey! Is that Mysterio?"

Mind you, I haven't seen a comic with Mysterio in it since before JFK died. (Google that if you need to.) Can't remember where I left my glasses, but 55 year old memories are readily available.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 09, 2019, 12:53:04 PM
"Wheels within wheels, mysteries within mysteries." I just hope they don't make it too unbelievable.
I chuckled, thank you.
Hey! I took my comics seriously. Well, at least until I turned 13.

But the garbage compactor between my ears surprised me when I saw the new Spiderman trailer. I saw a guy flying around with a goldfish bowl on his head.

"Hey! Is that Mysterio?"

Mind you, I haven't seen a comic with Mysterio in it since before JFK died. (Google that if you need to.) Can't remember where I left my glasses, but 55 year old memories are readily available.

It is Mysterio, so there's a lot of speculation about what's actually going on in that movie.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 09, 2019, 01:34:27 PM
https://youtu.be/R47UM8ShioY
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 09, 2019, 06:27:35 PM
"Wheels within wheels, mysteries within mysteries." I just hope they don't make it too unbelievable.
I chuckled, thank you.
Hey! I took my comics seriously. Well, at least until I turned 13.

But the garbage compactor between my ears surprised me when I saw the new Spiderman trailer. I saw a guy flying around with a goldfish bowl on his head.

"Hey! Is that Mysterio?"

Mind you, I haven't seen a comic with Mysterio in it since before JFK died. (Google that if you need to.) Can't remember where I left my glasses, but 55 year old memories are readily available.

It is Mysterio, so there's a lot of speculation about what's actually going on in that movie.
Yeah, he's a real snake. Or maybe just misunderstood...
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 14, 2019, 08:51:43 PM
They should release "Infinity Wars" and "Endgame" as one continuous movie, to be called "To Infinity Wars, and Beyond!"
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 14, 2019, 09:50:05 PM
I expect to find a fan edit that puts together all the relevant clips in in-universe order once Endgame is out on disc. The one I have seen is from 5 or 6 years ago - long before the time-travel skullduggery. It's actually a really interesting viewing. The scenes from the beginning of Thor and T:TDW open the thing - and then we're in CA:TFA. The scene where they dig him out of the ice is shifted to the end of the movie.

In the new edit the whole of Captain Marvel has to be slotted in after Cap falls, but before the main sequence of Thor starts.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 15, 2019, 06:20:59 AM
Avengers: Endgame - 10 huge MCU Problems It's Created. (Made my brain hurt.)

https://youtu.be/m6DeNpY-T2s
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 15, 2019, 07:30:30 AM
Avengers: Endgame - 10 huge MCU Problems It's Created. (Made my brain hurt.)

youtu.be/m6DeNpY-T2s

He made my brain hurt too. 8½ of his points are flat-out whinging. One is solid, but not hard to write around, and he misses one completely. The ½ is for a spot-on point about Marvel Studios, not the MCU.

My responses in spoilers because I feel grumpy this morning and maybe you don't need that in your life.

10. Thanos is dead and they don't have any other great bad guys.
(click to show/hide)

2. Earth is fucked.
3. New Gamora’s relationship with Quill is hokey.
9. S:FFH is convoluted because all Peter's classmates were dusted.
(click to show/hide)

6. Alternative realities keep stakes low and confusing.
(click to show/hide)

5. Captain Marvel is grossly overpowered.
(click to show/hide)

4. Endgame’s raised the stakes too high for future movies to top.
(click to show/hide)

1. “Don’t ask questions precedent.”
(click to show/hide)

He did make two points that were not just whinging.

8. Black Widow's death undermines her solo movie.
While going on about this he says Marvel Studios waited FAR FAR FAR too long to pull the trigger on a Black Widow movie. On that point I heartily agree. We were ready for that at least five years ago. That's a Hollywood / real world problem though, not something internal to the MCU.
(click to show/hide)

7. Time travel can solve every problem.
This is a real issue for future stories, along with immortality, but I'm pretty sure they can write around it.
(click to show/hide)

Yeesh. I really am grumpy this morning.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Calinthalus on May 15, 2019, 07:50:27 AM
I don't think it's fair to say Marvel has a cardboard villain problem.  The MCU does, but the Netflix/Marvel series have had some great villain writing/performances.  Kingpin, Killgrave, Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, Jigsaw...all with potentially better stories/performances than the heroes they are fighting against.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 15, 2019, 10:59:57 AM
Fair.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 15, 2019, 11:08:17 AM
Will Stormbreaker sprout a new Groot?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Ah.hell on May 15, 2019, 11:35:51 AM
(click to show/hide)
6. Alternative realities keep stakes low and confusing.
(click to show/hide)

5. Captain Marvel is grossly overpowered.
(click to show/hide)

4. Endgame’s raised the stakes too high for future movies to top.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

He did make two points that were not just whinging.

8. Black Widow's death undermines her solo movie.
While going on about this he says Marvel Studios waited FAR FAR FAR too long to pull the trigger on a Black Widow movie. On that point I heartily agree. We were ready for that at least five years ago. That's a Hollywood / real world problem though, not something internal to the MCU.
(click to show/hide)

7. Time travel can solve every problem.
This is a real issue for future stories, along with immortality, but I'm pretty sure they can write around it.
(click to show/hide)

Yeesh. I really am grumpy this morning.
6.  All you've really done there is point out that its a problem for both the MCU and comics.  I'd argue its a bigger problem for the movies on account of being produced over a shorter period of time and the fact that the MCU's big achievement was being such an expansive yet cohesive whole.  The multi-verse does kind of mean that doesn't matter that much anymore.
5. She kind of is but so was Thanos, has he complained that Thanos's powers seem to rise or fall depending on who he's fighting?
4.  This has been a problem for most of the superhero franchises though.  The basic plot for all of them:
  A.  Superhero gets powers
  B.  Faces regular bad guys
  C.  Beaten by more powerful badguy
  D.  Finds the inner(or outer) strength to beat new badguy.
  E.  Sequel start over but this time Hero is already at D so what now? The loose there powers?  They have an even bigger bad?  By the second sequel where is there left to go?

Marvel has done a good job of dealing with it for the most part though. 

8.  This is a problem with all prequels, you kind of know were the story ends up so how do you make the journey interesting.  I think Blackwidow's back story likely has much more potential than most of these characters so finger's crossed on that one.

Easyish time travel always has this problem.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on May 15, 2019, 12:33:05 PM
(click to show/hide)
6. Alternative realities keep stakes low and confusing.
(click to show/hide)

5. Captain Marvel is grossly overpowered.
(click to show/hide)

4. Endgame’s raised the stakes too high for future movies to top.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

He did make two points that were not just whinging.

8. Black Widow's death undermines her solo movie.
While going on about this he says Marvel Studios waited FAR FAR FAR too long to pull the trigger on a Black Widow movie. On that point I heartily agree. We were ready for that at least five years ago. That's a Hollywood / real world problem though, not something internal to the MCU.
(click to show/hide)

7. Time travel can solve every problem.
This is a real issue for future stories, along with immortality, but I'm pretty sure they can write around it.
(click to show/hide)

Yeesh. I really am grumpy this morning.
6.  All you've really done there is point out that its a problem for both the MCU and comics.  I'd argue its a bigger problem for the movies on account of being produced over a shorter period of time and the fact that the MCU's big achievement was being such an expansive yet cohesive whole.  The multi-verse does kind of mean that doesn't matter that much anymore.
5. She kind of is but so was Thanos, has he complained that Thanos's powers seem to rise or fall depending on who he's fighting?
4.  This has been a problem for most of the superhero franchises though.  The basic plot for all of them:
  A.  Superhero gets powers
  B.  Faces regular bad guys
  C.  Beaten by more powerful badguy
  D.  Finds the inner(or outer) strength to beat new badguy.
  E.  Sequel start over but this time Hero is already at D so what now? The loose there powers?  They have an even bigger bad?  By the second sequel where is there left to go?

Marvel has done a good job of dealing with it for the most part though. 

8.  This is a problem with all prequels, you kind of know were the story ends up so how do you make the journey interesting.  I think Blackwidow's back story likely has much more potential than most of these characters so finger's crossed on that one.

Easyish time travel always has this problem.

#6. The idea of a multiverse where there are real consequences was explored in Into the Spiderverse. I think the MCU will be able to navigate this issue reasonably easily by imposing their own significant limits on dimension hopping and time travel. (The Avengers got away with it because of Dr. Strange's foretelling, not because it's easy.)

Will Stormbreaker sprout a new Groot?

Well, what do we know about how Groots reproduce? I mean, we know they can produce flowers. (That scene is kinda disturbing when you consider what Groot was doing there. I mean, I guess we know why Groot looked so happy after spewing out reproductive bodies?) Can they clone via runner vines too?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on May 15, 2019, 12:39:15 PM
Captain Marvel/Superman power levels are only a problem if every movie is about their personal stake in "beating" a bad guy.
Can they win AND save all of the innocents? What toll does inevitable failure take on them? How do they avoid losing themselves in the responsibility.
Its the same problem Liam Neeson has in all of his films to be honest. The way around it is just better storytelling and that has been pulled off many times in the comics.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 16, 2019, 06:55:44 AM
Alternate ending:

Thanos: "Where's the infinity stone?"

Doctor Strange: "It's in this dog."

Thanos after killing the dog: "Did you think that would stop me?"

Doctor Strange: "Wait for it..."

John Wick: "Has anyone seen my new dog?"

Thanos: "Fuck!" 
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Morvis13 on May 21, 2019, 08:23:20 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Morvis13 on May 21, 2019, 10:16:24 AM
Oh, Sharon Crater was Peggy's Great Niece so Steve is ok.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Tassie Dave on August 04, 2019, 05:02:29 AM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on August 04, 2019, 06:54:59 AM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
I felt the same but someone pointed to it being a direct fuck you to the antifeminist fanboys and so in that sense, it makes me smile!
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on August 04, 2019, 08:11:40 AM
I saw the Lady Power thing as a subunit of the response to Thanos' attack.  But seriously, that whole scene was one big easter egg.

(More after I get my Blu-ray, Aug. 15th.)
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Tassie Dave on August 04, 2019, 03:52:04 PM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
I felt the same but someone pointed to it being a direct fuck you to the antifeminist fanboys and so in that sense, it makes me smile!

Which I'm all for. The same could have been achieved in a more believable, and less forced, manner. But it wasn't enough to stop me loving the movie.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on August 04, 2019, 05:50:22 PM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
I felt the same but someone pointed to it being a direct fuck you to the antifeminist fanboys and so in that sense, it makes me smile!

Which I'm all for. The same could have been achieved in a more believable, and less forced, manner. But it wasn't enough to stop me loving the movie.

I enjoyed that scene quite a lot. I didn't notice that it was all women until I read about it in an article after the fact.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: drwfishesman on August 08, 2019, 08:11:05 AM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
I felt the same but someone pointed to it being a direct fuck you to the antifeminist fanboys and so in that sense, it makes me smile!

Which I'm all for. The same could have been achieved in a more believable, and less forced, manner. But it wasn't enough to stop me loving the movie.

My wife did NOT feel the same. She said it took her out of the movie and was kind of disingenuous. It irked her. Dropped the movie from a solid 10 to a 7 for her.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on August 08, 2019, 09:04:28 AM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: wastrel on August 08, 2019, 11:47:02 AM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Rai on August 08, 2019, 12:41:56 PM
And then there is a big, bombastic, on the nose girl power moment that is not earned in any way.

I finally got to watch End Game today and that scene did stand out as being a decision made by committee.

I'm all for girl power, but in a battle containing thousands of people, to have every single known female character fighting together in the one spot, just seemed forced.

The same effect could have been achieved by having them shown individually, or in small groups, kicking a lot of alien butt.

A great end to the Infinity Stones story line. 10/10
I felt the same but someone pointed to it being a direct fuck you to the antifeminist fanboys and so in that sense, it makes me smile!

Which I'm all for. The same could have been achieved in a more believable, and less forced, manner. But it wasn't enough to stop me loving the movie.

My wife did NOT feel the same. She said it took her out of the movie and was kind of disingenuous. It irked her. Dropped the movie from a solid 10 to a 7 for her.

I had the same feeling. Marvel hasn't been all that great to its female characters, especially in the early MCU and I just don't think they have the right to play the Girl Power card.

How many of those characters in that scene even talked to each other beforehand?
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: superdave on August 08, 2019, 12:47:30 PM
finally saw it and I had a lot of problems with it
1)  (same problem as infinity war)  When the stakes are half the life in the whole universe the trolly problem is really not a thing any more, you would be an idiot to put personal motivations over such high stakes.  Looking at you Captain Marvel.

2)  wait so half the planet is now 5 years older than the other half?  WTF?

2a)  I'd have spent more of the movie developing the time travel plot, then use it to get the stones and have infinity gauntlet powered iron man fight Thanos to the death, but not five years into the future, have that scene just before the snap.

3)  I figured the snap was just a metaphor for channeling the stones power, it seemed silly to me that they needed to reproduce the snap again.

4) Despite having had no spoilers I saw every beat of this movie coming from miles away. 

5) Why was infinity stone free thanos so tough to beat?

6)  It was not satisfying for them to kill what was effectively a different thanos than they one we had in the last movie.

7)  I was confused by how apocalyptic the earth was supposed to be and if so, I am not sure how well the just popping everyone back 5 years later helps.

8)  Captain Marvel really shouldn't have been in this movie unless they came up with something more interesting for her to do.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Harry Black on August 08, 2019, 05:45:24 PM
Superdave-
2) Yes. Thats consequences. Im ok with that
2A) We establish that it would be fatal for him.
3) Yeah. I guess. But there needed to be an instigation of some sort. Why not that?
5) He is a titan. And the most powerful exponent of his planet.
6) They killed that thanos very early. This wasnt about revenge, it was about preserving what they had saved.
7) It seems it would be pretty rough. But 5yrs later is not supposed to fix or not fix that. Its supposed to save those who were taken.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Tassie Dave on August 08, 2019, 06:19:51 PM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.

Forced was my feeling. In a chaotic war to have all the women heroes in one spot just wouldn't happen. (Ok statistically any combination is possible  ;) )

You could have had a montage of all the women fighting separate battles (even in small groups) and achieved the same girl power feeling.

It was a great scene and I wouldn't want it cut. But it could have been handled better and not stood out as a forced decision.

On another point it was odd that Natasha didn't get a funeral. Did they leave her body where they got the Soul Stone? Was that part of the deal?

I am looking forward to the Black Widow movie. I have wanted that since Avengers.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: The Latinist on August 08, 2019, 06:32:27 PM
What you all seem to be forgetting is that if any 14,000,605 details of this movie you are complaining about had been changed, Thanos would have won.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: brilligtove on August 08, 2019, 06:52:08 PM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.

Forced was my feeling. In a chaotic war to have all the women heroes in one spot just wouldn't happen. (Ok statistically any combination is possible  ;) )

You could have had a montage of all the women fighting separate battles (even in small groups) and achieved the same girl power feeling.

It was a great scene and I wouldn't want it cut. But it could have been handled better and not stood out as a forced decision.

On another point it was odd that Natasha didn't get a funeral. Did they leave her body where they got the Soul Stone? Was that part of the deal?

I am looking forward to the Black Widow movie. I have wanted that since Avengers.

They weren't really in one spot. He called for help and they answered. It didn't feel forced to me.

Natasha did get a funeral - it just wasn't formal. Hulk tossed a bench during it. If there was a body to collect it's possible Hawkeye could not get to it to bring home after.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on August 08, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.
The whole freaking 7th Cavalry charge was forced. It came of out thin air. Picking one clot of troopers out of that mob to be stressed about is just a little weird.

Or, as Wong said, "You want more?!?!?!"
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: wastrel on August 08, 2019, 07:30:06 PM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.
The whole freaking 7th Cavalry charge was forced. It came of out thin air. Picking one clot of troopers out of that mob to be stressed about is just a little weird.

Or, as Wong said, "You want more?!?!?!"

I think you are overstating what anyone has said.  Not saying it ruined the movie, or it wasn't a cool scene, just that that particular item felt forced.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on August 10, 2019, 12:40:12 PM
Why is it bad that the women had a sub-team of their own?

I don't think it is bad, but the way it came about, in the middle of the battle with zero lead up to it, felt very forced.  If it could have been something of a subplot throughout, culminating in that moment, the payoff would have been great.
The whole freaking 7th Cavalry charge was forced. It came of out thin air. Picking one clot of troopers out of that mob to be stressed about is just a little weird.

Or, as Wong said, "You want more?!?!?!"

I think you are overstating what anyone has said.  Not saying it ruined the movie, or it wasn't a cool scene, just that that particular item felt forced.
I was just saying that it didn't stand out that much.
Title: Re: Avengers:Endgame [SPOILERS]
Post by: superdave on August 12, 2019, 04:21:19 PM
I think that cavalry scene was a bold statement but we have to see if they live up to it.  Out of the 20 something marvel movies, the first 2/3rds were not particularly woke, but they did get better with time.