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General Discussions => Religion / Philosophy Talk => Topic started by: Quetzalcoatl on August 30, 2019, 12:48:55 PM

Title: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Quetzalcoatl on August 30, 2019, 12:48:55 PM
Quote
Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public (https://www.albawaba.com/editors-choice/iranian-woman-activist-sentenced-15-years-taking-her-hijab-public-1305541)

(https://www.albawaba.com/sites/default/files/styles/de2e_standard/public/2019-08/17781498-7402503-image-a-83_1566988602337.jpg)
Saba Kord Afshari, 20, has been sentenced to 24 years in jail for participating in protests in Iran, including 15 years for removing her hijab. (Twitter)

An Iranian women's rights activist has been jailed for a total of 24 years - including a 15-year term for 'spreading prostitution by taking off her hijab'.

Saba Kord Afshari, 20, was handed the sentence Tuesday by Tehran's Revolutionary Court after being found guilty of removing her headscarf as well as 'spreading propaganda against the state' and 'assembly and collusion'.

Afshari and her mother, Raheleh Ahmadi, had been prominent members of the White Wednesdays protest group, which spoke out against the compulsory hijab.

The pair routinely posted videos of themselves walking around the streets of Tehran without their headscarves to encourage other women to flout the law.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Harry Black on August 30, 2019, 12:58:16 PM
Brave woman.
 We have a long way to go to be done with inhuman regimes like Iran and its ilk.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: random poet on August 30, 2019, 01:23:37 PM
Barely a generation ago, Iran was a free country. This is a brand new thing. I am confident this oppression could go away just as quickly.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: gebobs on September 10, 2019, 10:33:31 AM
Barely a generation ago, Iran was a free country. This is a brand new thing. I am confident this oppression could go away just as quickly.

A free country? Iran? A generation ago? What?
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Before the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists overthrew the Shaw and oppressed everyone the Shaw oppressed the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists.


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Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Rai on September 10, 2019, 12:18:27 PM
Before the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists overthrew the Shaw and oppressed everyone the Shaw oppressed the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists.


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More like before the CIA and MI6 deposed the well-liked democratically elected secular government for daring to decolonise their oil production and replaced it with a hated right-wing authoritarian regime.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 12:37:40 PM
Before the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists overthrew the Shaw and oppressed everyone the Shaw oppressed the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists.


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More like before the CIA and MI6 deposed the well-liked democratically elected secular government for daring to decolonise their oil production and replaced it with a hated right-wing authoritarian regime.

That was one generation ago? How long is a generation?

I have no idea if Iran was a "free country" back then or not.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Rai on September 10, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Before the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists overthrew the Shaw and oppressed everyone the Shaw oppressed the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists.


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More like before the CIA and MI6 deposed the well-liked democratically elected secular government for daring to decolonise their oil production and replaced it with a hated right-wing authoritarian regime.

That was one generation ago? How long is a generation?

I have no idea if Iran was a "free country" back then or not.

1953 is not that long ago
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
Before the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists overthrew the Shaw and oppressed everyone the Shaw oppressed the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists.


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More like before the CIA and MI6 deposed the well-liked democratically elected secular government for daring to decolonise their oil production and replaced it with a hated right-wing authoritarian regime.

That was one generation ago? How long is a generation?

I have no idea if Iran was a "free country" back then or not.

1953 is not that long ago

Some people born in 1953 are grandparents and some are great-grandparents. I think that counts as more than a generation.

Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Harry Black on September 10, 2019, 03:09:55 PM
I dont think disagreeing on how long a generation is invalidates the point?
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 03:56:23 PM
I dont think disagreeing on how long a generation is invalidates the point?

It's more of a question.

Is the point that Iran was free when the Shah was in power, or was Iran free pre-Shah?

There was oppression under the Shah, and that oppression led to his overthrow.


Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Harry Black on September 10, 2019, 06:28:45 PM
Would you disagree that it has been free at some point in the last 70 years?
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 06:39:08 PM
Would you disagree that it has been free at some point in the last 70 years?

I don't know how to answer that.

Was it free before 1953? I don't know.

There was more freedom under the Shah than now, but there was also political and religious oppression. I would not call that free.

When the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists took over there may have been a brief moment when people thought they were free, but that evaporated pretty quickly.

It's been a politically, religiously, culturally and socially oppressive regime from the start.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: arthwollipot on September 10, 2019, 08:35:30 PM
Define "free".
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 10, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Define "free".
Free country: no religious, political or cultural suppression by  government, religion  or other institutions


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Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: arthwollipot on September 10, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
Define "free".
Free country: no religious, political or cultural suppression by  government, religion  or other institutions

Glib, and not very useful. My country suppresses the religious practice of sacrificing children. Does that mean it's not a free country?
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Harry Black on September 11, 2019, 02:50:49 AM
Would you disagree that it has been free at some point in the last 70 years?

I don't know how to answer that.

Was it free before 1953? I don't know.

There was more freedom under the Shah than now, but there was also political and religious oppression. I would not call that free.

When the Ayatollah and the fundamentalists took over there may have been a brief moment when people thought they were free, but that evaporated pretty quickly.

It's been a politically, religiously, culturally and socially oppressive regime from the start.
Cool.
So thats a much more productive route for the discussion.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: CarbShark on September 11, 2019, 03:53:28 AM
Define "free".
Free country: no religious, political or cultural suppression by  government, religion  or other institutions

Glib, and not very useful. My country suppresses the religious practice of sacrificing children. Does that mean it's not a free country?
Is that really necessary ? 

I mean are there actually religions in your country that would sacrifice children if it weren’t illegal? 


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Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Rai on September 11, 2019, 03:56:45 AM
I would add economic suppression to that list as well, but that would put the number of free countries to 0  :P
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: arthwollipot on September 11, 2019, 04:12:52 AM
Define "free".
Free country: no religious, political or cultural suppression by  government, religion  or other institutions

Glib, and not very useful. My country suppresses the religious practice of sacrificing children. Does that mean it's not a free country?
Is that really necessary ? 

I mean are there actually religions in your country that would sacrifice children if it weren’t illegal?

No, but I want you to realise that the American ideal of "Freedom!" is an illusion at best. The biggest con ever perpetrated on a nation. Your "freedoms" (as though it's a countable noun) are, have always been, and will always be, suppressed by government, religion and other institutions. The suppression of "freedoms" is a fundamental building block of society, and a society with no suppression of "freedoms" is pure anarchy.

Some societies - nations, cultures, whatever - do it better than others. That's all.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: Shibboleth on September 11, 2019, 12:33:34 PM
Define "free".
Free country: no religious, political or cultural suppression by  government, religion  or other institutions

Glib, and not very useful. My country suppresses the religious practice of sacrificing children. Does that mean it's not a free country?
Is that really necessary ? 

I mean are there actually religions in your country that would sacrifice children if it weren’t illegal?

No, but I want you to realise that the American ideal of "Freedom!" is an illusion at best. The biggest con ever perpetrated on a nation. Your "freedoms" (as though it's a countable noun) are, have always been, and will always be, suppressed by government, religion and other institutions. The suppression of "freedoms" is a fundamental building block of society, and a society with no suppression of "freedoms" is pure anarchy.

Some societies - nations, cultures, whatever - do it better than others. That's all.

I wouldn't say it was a con. Comparatively in its day it was a free society. Following the American revolution you saw a flurry of other revolutions in Europe working to catch up. Today America is not the most free nation in the world and one just has to look at the incarceration rate to see that fact.
Title: Re: "Iranian Activist Gets 15 Years for Removing Her Hijab in Public"
Post by: random poet on September 11, 2019, 12:40:04 PM
Turns out "barely a generation" is exactly 66 years.

Glad we got that settled.