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General Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: bachfiend on September 04, 2019, 10:31:16 PM

Title: Barbecue issues.
Post by: bachfiend on September 04, 2019, 10:31:16 PM
For your amusement:

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/vegan-cilla-cardens-court-action-against-neighbour-sparks-huge-barbecue-meat-protest-ng-b881313661z?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PerthNow+AM+update+5.9.19

I’m a vegetarian.  Occasionally, when I’m walking home with my dog (who isn’t a vegetarian) from the local dog park I pass a neighbour who is having a barbecue.  I don’t find the smell pleasant, actually a little nauseating, but I don’t think it’s worth complaining about, let alone taking the neighbour to court.

Protesting and counter-protesting seem to me to be pointless and a waste of time.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Captain Video on September 04, 2019, 11:03:26 PM
I was hoping this would be a thread about making BBQ rather than what it is but I agree its funny.

I know what you call "BBQ" I call grilling but I both smoke and grill vegetables and don't think it smells that much different from meat. To me it just smells like smoke from farther away unless you are using gas. oh and I do LOVE that smell!

Out of curiosity I found another article with video, I guess its fish they are cooking that has her pissed off which could easily smell before they even start cooking but she is also complaining about cigarette smoke, wall banging and kids playing basketball. I'm thinking that there is nothing her neighbors could do that would not upset her.

https://youtu.be/fd6feA9Hi_0

Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: CarbShark on September 04, 2019, 11:39:10 PM
Is it worth getting a rotisserie attachment for my grill?


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Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: bachfiend on September 04, 2019, 11:45:48 PM
I was hoping this would be a thread about making BBQ rather than what it is but I agree its funny.

I know what you call "BBQ" I call grilling but I both smoke and grill vegetables and don't think it smells that much different from meat. To me it just smells like smoke from farther away unless you are using gas. oh and I do LOVE that smell!

Out of curiosity I found another article with video, I guess its fish they are cooking that has her pissed off which could easily smell before they even start cooking but she is also complaining about cigarette smoke, wall banging and kids playing basketball. I'm thinking that there is nothing her neighbors could do that would not upset her.

https://youtu.be/fd6feA9Hi_0

I had a neighbour complain about my playing Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony (and she complained to the local government council too).  And she also complained when the local council used Roundup to treat the weeds growing along the access way between our two properties (she thought the odour was being caused by tradesmen doing renovations in my house at the same time).

Some people just like to complain.  They find it offensive that somewhere somewhen someone is having a good (or at least, not as bad) time.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: bachfiend on September 04, 2019, 11:49:16 PM
Is it worth getting a rotisserie attachment for my grill?


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Only if it’s a silent one.  Otherwise, your neighbours might complain.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Calinthalus on September 05, 2019, 06:49:58 AM
Makes me happy to live where I do.  If Ray or Myrna Joe can smell my cooking, something really fucked up is going on.  Their house is at least 250 yards from mine.  Tim, on the other side is at least 400.  Hell, during summers my mom has a tiny house here on my property and it's 50 yards from my house.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: 2397 on September 05, 2019, 07:10:42 AM
Makes me happy to live where I do.  If Ray or Myrna Joe can smell my cooking, something really fucked up is going on.  Their house is at least 250 yards from mine.  Tim, on the other side is at least 400.  Hell, during summers my mom has a tiny house here on my property and it's 50 yards from my house.

I take the OP story as another example of the world being overpopulated, and I'm not joking, although it's not the most serious example of it.

Noisy kids, unwanted smells, maybe physically and not just mentally irritating smoke. It's still a fire releasing pollutants into the environment, even if there's food on it. I could imagine a chain of events that leads to this type of escalation where no one was necessarily at fault.

Life would be easier to live if there weren't as many people to share it with.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Ah.hell on September 05, 2019, 10:06:30 AM
Makes me happy to live where I do.  If Ray or Myrna Joe can smell my cooking, something really fucked up is going on.  Their house is at least 250 yards from mine.  Tim, on the other side is at least 400.  Hell, during summers my mom has a tiny house here on my property and it's 50 yards from my house.

I take the OP story as another example of the world being overpopulated, and I'm not joking, although it's not the most serious example of it.

Noisy kids, unwanted smells, maybe physically and not just mentally irritating smoke. It's still a fire releasing pollutants into the environment, even if there's food on it. I could imagine a chain of events that leads to this type of escalation where no one was necessarily at fault.

Life would be easier to live if there weren't as many people to share it with.
This is fairly silly really.  Most folks will still tend to live near others even if we had a tenth the population.  I suspect the complaining neighbor almost certainly would. 
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: moj on September 05, 2019, 10:33:47 AM
I'm going to go rogue and say my biggest beef with BBQ is the sauce. Sweet sauce mainly but not a huge like the vinegar or mustard much either. I can tolerate them, but would never be my first choice.   Dry rub baby, I like it savory and salty, with a a little heat, save the sweet's for desert. I want to see bark on my meat! My wife on the other hand is from KC so she is all about being covered in sweet sauce. yack, what a waste of meat. I have family in NC but they are wrong about BBQ to.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: 2397 on September 05, 2019, 10:42:09 AM
This is fairly silly really.  Most folks will still tend to live near others even if we had a tenth the population.  I suspect the complaining neighbor almost certainly would. 

The tendency is for population density to increase, faster on a local scale than the population is growing vs. the overall landmass, as a larger and larger share of humanity live in cities.

It's easier to keep building where we're already building, but not easy to spread back out again, especially since we're basically already using as much land as we can, and then quite a lot more than that, without destroying our own habitat.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: daniel1948 on September 05, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
I don't bother complaining because I think it's futile, and because I am just as bad in my own transgressions as they are in theirs, but I honestly don't believe there's a shred of hope for a peaceful world (either for international affairs or interpersonal) when the majority of humans are so callous towards the suffering they are willing to cause, that they regard animals as nothing but a source of food. They are willing to slaughter living, feeling creatures, just for the pleasure of a source of food that is disastrous to the environment and damaging to their own health. And to breed and raise those animals in the most inhumane conditions imaginable. They claim to be "morally" superior to animals, yet they are infinitely more cruel than any other animal.

I find the smell of cooking meat to be nauseating, just as I find the barking of my neighbor's dog to be obnoxious, but I regard both as the cost of living in society. I am sympathetic with the Australian woman, but she should have realized that judges who themselves eat meat (in all probability) were not going to rule in her favor and that it was a waste of time bringing a court case against a practice that is nearly universal in her society.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: CarbShark on September 05, 2019, 10:53:10 AM
I'm going to go rogue and say my biggest beef with BBQ is the sauce. Sweet sauce mainly but not a huge like the vinegar or mustard much either. I can tolerate them, but would never be my first choice.   Dry rub baby, I like it savory and salty, with a a little heat, save the sweet's for desert. I want to see bark on my meat! My wife on the other hand is from KC so she is all about being covered in sweet sauce. yack, what a waste of meat. I have family in NC but they are wrong about BBQ to.
Tell me about it. Sugar, honey, molasses, brown sugar, none of those belong anywhere near meat.


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Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Calinthalus on September 05, 2019, 10:59:59 AM
The only time my neighbors bother me or I bother them is generally if some of Myrna Joe's cows get out.  I went to the kitchen the other day and one heifer was about 15 feet from my window just chomping away.  One of my cats was on the freezer staring at it, eyes as wide as saucers.  "What kind of fucking dog is that???  Tell me we're not keeping it!"


She wandered on back home later.  She left a giant turd in my yard.  Maybe I should sue?
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: John Albert on September 05, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Is it worth getting a rotisserie attachment for my grill?

YES, absolutely.

For stuff like whole chickens, pork shoulder and beef tenderloin especially.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Calinthalus on September 05, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: bachfiend on September 05, 2019, 06:14:07 PM
Perhaps one of the reasons why I find the smell of burning meat nauseating is that I once worked in an anatomical pathology department that was around the corner from the central kitchens.  So I arrived each morning to the smell of burning fat.  And the mortuary was directly opposite (shades of Sweeney Todd).

BTW - the only time i lost it during a necropsy was when the technician announced that the best thing about post mortems  is that no one notices if you fart, and then (deliberately) loudly broke wind.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Captain Video on September 06, 2019, 12:21:40 AM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.

I don't know about suing but your neighbor needs to clean up the shit in your yard, I do that if my dog shits in the neighbors yard.

I'm also thinking you ask for a few free steaks or dairy products for the inconvenience of having them feed on your grass, you helped produce that food (unless its saving you money on lawn mowing, I would do anything not to have to mow the lawn)

It cant hurt to ask, you mite not need a lawyer.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Captain Video on September 06, 2019, 01:25:43 AM
Is it worth getting a rotisserie attachment for my grill?


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I think it depends on the grill and cooking style.  What kind do you have?


I'm going to go rogue and say my biggest beef with BBQ is the sauce. Sweet sauce mainly but not a huge like the vinegar or mustard much either. I can tolerate them, but would never be my first choice.   Dry rub baby, I like it savory and salty, with a a little heat, save the sweet's for desert. I want to see bark on my meat! My wife on the other hand is from KC so she is all about being covered in sweet sauce. yack, what a waste of meat. I have family in NC but they are wrong about BBQ to.
Tell me about it. Sugar, honey, molasses, brown sugar, none of those belong anywhere near meat.

I really have to disagree with you here especially when dealing with smoked pork, my rub is HALF brown sugar, followed by granulated onion, granulated garlic, kosher salt, black pepper, smoked paprika, and a small amount of jalapeno powder (I think it adds a better flavor than cayenne) I start with a thin layer of yellow mustard so the rub sticks to the meat. The butt gets an injection of apple juice before the rub, the ribs get a mop sauce while smoking made with apple juice and a few other things. Applewood smoke, "slow and low"

Smoked Beef (and grilled steaks) I stick to salt and pepper but will use sugar in many other beef dishes.

All that said, I also do not like the super thick KC "sweet sauce" moj is talking about unless its used for chicken nuggets.  I will make it for those who do like it.

I have a tomato based sauce that is similar to a Carolina red sauce. Its ketchup based but not as thick as ketchup. It has some sugar but its not super sweet, lots of flavor but its not meant to soak into meat and cook, this is for after its done. It complements the rub.

I also have a Carolina gold mustard base sauce that is actually sweeter than the red because I use honey.

Right now i'm pushing farther away from American flavors and getting deep into Korean.  One of the best BBQ places in the state is a place owned by a Korean woman and her southern raised husband.  The Korean flavors combined with southern smoking techniques is nothing short of amazing.  I have started to emulate them with my ribs and pork butt.  I use almost the exact same rub as the southern version but half white sugar instead of all brown, course Korean pepper flakes (Gochugaru) instead of jalapeno. Instead of first coating the meat in yellow mustard you use gochujang (be careful you don't get one thats too hot, they vary from brand to brand.) Then I finish with a gochujang based sauce (which is also mostly sugar).

Koreans use a lot of sugar  >:D


Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: arthwollipot on September 06, 2019, 02:40:49 AM
First Dog On The Moon on the Perth barbeque thing (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/06/vegans-why-wont-they-leave-us-alone-to-consume-the-flesh-of-tortured-animals-in-peace).
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: The Latinist on September 06, 2019, 08:29:38 AM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.

I don't know about suing but your neighbor needs to clean up the shit in your yard, I do that if my dog shits in the neighbors yard.

I'm also thinking you ask for a few free steaks or dairy products for the inconvenience of having them feed on your grass, you helped produce that food (unless its saving you money on lawn mowing, I would do anything not to have to mow the lawn)

It cant hurt to ask, you mite not need a lawyer.

I take it you’ve never lived in the country.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Captain Video on September 06, 2019, 10:11:09 AM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.

I don't know about suing but your neighbor needs to clean up the shit in your yard, I do that if my dog shits in the neighbors yard.

I'm also thinking you ask for a few free steaks or dairy products for the inconvenience of having them feed on your grass, you helped produce that food (unless its saving you money on lawn mowing, I would do anything not to have to mow the lawn)

It cant hurt to ask, you mite not need a lawyer.

I take it you’ve never lived in the country.

I wasnt being all that serious but to answer your question  yes, I have, every summer in central PA. Around cows, pigs, chickens and other animals, I have slaughtered them too. Not to mention we were surrounded by corn everywhere I lived in Allentown. Its east PA, Amish, feed Corn, cows and small dirty cities with big city influence.

At my grandparents house If someone inconvenienced you with their cows getting loose they would most likely offer you a gift, usually something they produced on their farm, thats where I got the idea but again I was not being too serious.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: The Latinist on September 06, 2019, 10:36:37 AM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.

I don't know about suing but your neighbor needs to clean up the shit in your yard, I do that if my dog shits in the neighbors yard.

I'm also thinking you ask for a few free steaks or dairy products for the inconvenience of having them feed on your grass, you helped produce that food (unless its saving you money on lawn mowing, I would do anything not to have to mow the lawn)

It cant hurt to ask, you mite not need a lawyer.

I take it you’ve never lived in the country.

I wasnt being all that serious but to answer your question  yes, I have, every summer in central PA. Around cows, pigs, chickens and other animals, I have slaughtered them too. Not to mention we were surrounded by corn everywhere I lived in Allentown. Its east PA, Amish, feed Corn, cows and small dirty cities with big city influence.

At my grandparents house If someone inconvenienced you with their cows getting loose they would most likely offer you a gift, usually something they produced on their farm, thats where I got the idea but again I was not being too serious.

I grew up in rural Vermont. Animals got out. It's what they did. I'd help you round yours up, and you'd help me round up mine next time. If someone wanted to offer me a gift, that'd one thing.  But asking for compensation for someone's animals getting out? That'd be fucked up.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Captain Video on September 06, 2019, 12:06:57 PM
I tell that story last post.  Today, I get home from work, go inside unpack my lunch, talk to the wife. After an hour we head down to visit my mother.  Walk out the front door and a bull is just hanging out about 20 feet from my back door.  Across the street there are cows mooing at him and he gives zero fucks...just picking at the grass.

I don't know about suing but your neighbor needs to clean up the shit in your yard, I do that if my dog shits in the neighbors yard.

I'm also thinking you ask for a few free steaks or dairy products for the inconvenience of having them feed on your grass, you helped produce that food (unless its saving you money on lawn mowing, I would do anything not to have to mow the lawn)

It cant hurt to ask, you mite not need a lawyer.

I take it you’ve never lived in the country.

I wasnt being all that serious but to answer your question  yes, I have, every summer in central PA. Around cows, pigs, chickens and other animals, I have slaughtered them too. Not to mention we were surrounded by corn everywhere I lived in Allentown. Its east PA, Amish, feed Corn, cows and small dirty cities with big city influence.

At my grandparents house If someone inconvenienced you with their cows getting loose they would most likely offer you a gift, usually something they produced on their farm, thats where I got the idea but again I was not being too serious.

I grew up in rural Vermont. Animals got out. It's what they did. I'd help you round yours up, and you'd help me round up mine next time. If someone wanted to offer me a gift, that'd one thing.  But asking for compensation for someone's animals getting out? That'd be fucked up.

Well again, what I said deserves a little leave way because it was meant as mostly comedic sarcasm, especially the "you helped produce that food" part

I cant speak for Calinthalus but he sounds slightly inconvenienced but also enjoying the irony, no big deal, thats why he was joking about suing them and I was joking about asking for free stuff to cover his inconvenience.

In the situation you described with animals simply running away and you share the work, sure that's pretty normal.

What if you don't have animals but the neighboring farms animals keep breaking down your fence, eating your garden and generally damaging your property. Do you expect compensation?

I guess this is full circle on the thread. At what point do you think your daily living habits, family and animals "invade" your neighbors space?





Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: Calinthalus on September 06, 2019, 12:20:21 PM
I mean yeah, I was being facetious.


If the cow was getting out all the time and eating a garden or actually destroying property I would probably get upset and expect recompense.  As it is, they eat some grass that I hope never grows back, and I occasionally get cow turds in the yard.  The only times I've really cared is if a fence was all the way down and there were several clustered together in the road.  That only bothers me because I'm worried about someone hitting the cows.  Otherwise I don't even bother calling Ray to tell him.  For all I care they could roam the countryside quietly trimming peoples yards.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: 2397 on September 07, 2019, 06:15:31 AM
I grew up in rural Vermont. Animals got out. It's what they did. I'd help you round yours up, and you'd help me round up mine next time. If someone wanted to offer me a gift, that'd one thing.  But asking for compensation for someone's animals getting out? That'd be fucked up.

That makes sense if it's a mutual arrangement, and if you're prepared to handle the animals. But if you're not part of such an arrangement, and something you keep on your property gets destroyed by someone who shouldn't be there, I'd say that compensation is fair.

With cows in particular, they're as deadly as dogs are, so property damage isn't the only concern if they get loose. Your dog, your cow, your responsibility.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: daniel1948 on September 07, 2019, 11:04:29 AM
In rural North Dakota, where I lived for many years, if someone's dog got into someone else's pasture and started chasing the cows, the farmer who owned the cows would shoot the dog. And the dog's owner would not complain. Those lost calories are lost money for the farmer, and that was more important to everyone involved than a dog. I don't know if compensation would be requested or given if someone's cows got into someone else's pasture or farmyard. I very rarely saw cows out of their pasture or home yard, and then only on the road, never on someone else's property. I don't know, maybe farmers were especially careful about that because the other farmer would keep the cow? The nearest cows to me were about six miles away, on the dairy farm where I worked. Mostly it was just small grains, a few sunflowers, and some sugar beets in my area. Not a lot of cows.
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: bachfiend on September 07, 2019, 04:26:09 PM
I grew up in rural Vermont. Animals got out. It's what they did. I'd help you round yours up, and you'd help me round up mine next time. If someone wanted to offer me a gift, that'd one thing.  But asking for compensation for someone's animals getting out? That'd be fucked up.

That makes sense if it's a mutual arrangement, and if you're prepared to handle the animals. But if you're not part of such an arrangement, and something you keep on your property gets destroyed by someone who shouldn't be there, I'd say that compensation is fair.

With cows in particular, they're as deadly as dogs are, so property damage isn't the only concern if they get loose. Your dog, your cow, your responsibility.

Too true.  Bill Bryson in ‘the Road to Little Dribbling’ notes that more people are killed by cows in Britain than bulls (which have the worse reputation).  Deaths of hikers from being trampled by cows is big news, making all the newspapers.  On page 42, he notes that he loves living in a country where this happens.  In America, there could be a mass shooting, and if it’s small enough, less than 4 or so, doesn’t reach the national papers, and isn’t really a big story in the regional ones apparently.  So a cow trampling wouldn’t be reported, unless it was bizarre (such as involving Dick Cheney or the current klutz in the White House).
Title: Re: Barbecue issues.
Post by: gebobs on September 10, 2019, 10:26:35 AM
I take the OP story as another example of the world being overpopulated, and I'm not joking, although it's not the most serious example of it.

Noisy kids, unwanted smells, maybe physically and not just mentally irritating smoke. It's still a fire releasing pollutants into the environment, even if there's food on it. I could imagine a chain of events that leads to this type of escalation where no one was necessarily at fault.

Life would be easier to live if there weren't as many people to share it with.

I would not advise that woman to travel to Marrakech. Oy!