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General Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: Groomporter on May 03, 2019, 11:39:33 AM

Title: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Groomporter on May 03, 2019, 11:39:33 AM
Looking for good links to use to explain without jargon to a non-science based family member that 5G cell phones or 5G smart devices are not capable of being weaponized in the way she's afraid.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 03, 2019, 11:59:16 AM
Looking for good links to use to explain without jargon to a non-science based family member that 5G cell phones or 5G smart devices are not capable of being weaponized in the way she's afraid.

It all depends on what specific kind of device you're talking about, and what you mean by "weaponized."
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Ah.hell on May 03, 2019, 12:48:51 PM
I think what you need first is a description or link to a description of how she thinks they can be weaponized.  As far as I know the only way to weaponize them is to throw them at people.  I don't think that can be prevented.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Shibboleth on May 03, 2019, 12:54:51 PM
The easiest way to deal with it is to use your 5G phone to send powerful radio waves to destroy the websites and cell phone towers that are feeding them this disinformation. I think all you have to do is hold the pound key and the volume button at the same time. Just be careful that you don't hold the pound key and the fingerprint sensor at the same time. That sends 5G zeta waves into your body through your finger causing instant lymphoma.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 03, 2019, 12:59:54 PM
Smartphones, for example, are general purpose computers. As such, they can be programmed to do all sorts of things undesired and unbeknownst to the user.

I'm assuming that's what Groomporter's relative meant by the devices being "weaponized," which is why I would never try to convince somebody that Internet-linked data devices are incapable of being misused in such a way.

But malware attacks are not germane to 5e devices alone. Practically any data collection, storage, or transmission device that's connected to the Internet is capable of being compromised and misused in some way. 
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Morvis13 on May 03, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
They do realize the G stands for Generation? 5th gen is better than 4th which is better than 3rd and so on.
5G will give you the bandwidth to get video on how to build a better bomb but you could do that with 3rd if you were patient enough.

This is like saying Millenials are weaponized more over the GenX or Baby boomers. Which might be true but we should just blame the Lost Generation for not raising their kids right.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Morvis13 on May 03, 2019, 01:04:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEx_d0SjvS0
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Soldier of FORTRAN on May 03, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
Looking for good links to use to explain without jargon to a non-science based family member that 5G cell phones or 5G smart devices are not capable of being weaponized in the way she's afraid.

I'm afraid this issue is new to me. However, you have piqued my curiosity.  If you have time for a write-up, would you mind giving an overview of what she's into?
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: random poet on May 03, 2019, 01:23:23 PM
I am betting on fear of radiation. Using a 5G is like sticking your head into a microwave oven five microwave ovens!
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 03, 2019, 01:40:27 PM
I am betting on fear of radiation. Using a 5G is like sticking your head into a microwave oven five microwave ovens!

Either that, or fear of being spied upon.

The current 5g hardware is being manufactured by Chinese company Huawei, which is known to have put espionage backdoors into its products (1 (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/03/how-microsoft-found-a-huawei-driver-that-opened-systems-up-to-attack/), 2 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/30/huawei-backdoors-found-by-vodafone-risking-unauthorized-access-to-network/#7c62410c717c), 3 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2019/02/26/huawei-security-scandal-everything-you-need-to-know/#4fe7c94173a5)). This has the EU worried about security breaches (https://www.zdnet.com/article/5g-security-europe-worries-about-backdoors-into-its-networks/). Earlier this year the US government banned Huawei gear (https://techcrunch.com/2018/08/13/new-defense-bill-bans-the-u-s-government-from-using-huawei-and-zte-tech/), prompting a lawsuit from Huawei (https://www.npr.org/2019/03/07/700989603/huawei-sues-u-s-after-congress-bans-government-purchase-of-its-equipment). Following the most recent revelations of apparent backdoors, The US is warning its allies (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/04/30/vodafone-admits-finding-hidden-back-doors-huawei-equipment/) not to use Huawei stuff, though it appears that the UK is not listening (https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/23/18513295/huawei-5g-great-britian-uk-theresa-may-china-hacking-fears-infrastructure).

I think it all seems a bit hypocritical, considering that the US, UK, Canada, and the "Land Down Under" (https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/09/five-eyes_intel.html), have proposed building their own backdoor into our industry standard encryption protocols.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on May 03, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Weaponized is like "militarized", much ado about nothing.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Ah.hell on May 03, 2019, 05:52:06 PM
So there have been two possibilities suggested.

It means, they'll be used to spy on us.  Totally plausible but not any different from 4g, 3g, or any other cell phone technology.

It means, "radiation", um...ok, if so, what?  Same scare as previous cell phone tech and likely as little basis.  I doubt this is it as it implies they aren't all dangerous its just those that have been weaponized.

I really think we need more info from groomporter to have any chance of providing a resource for him.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: daniel1948 on May 04, 2019, 10:43:56 AM
Another possible way they could be "weaponized" is to hack them for use in a bot net. Because they're faster (that's the only real difference, isn't it?) they would be more effective than 4G in bot nets.

@Groomporter really needs to tell us what type of "weaponization" is being alluded to. Spying or use in bot nets are realistic concerns. Beaming mind-control waves or em waves into our brains are just silliness.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 04, 2019, 04:15:15 PM
Any kind of malware is also a threat. If you're worried about malware on a mobile device, get an iPhone or iPad and don't jailbreak it.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 04, 2019, 04:16:44 PM
By the way, doesn't this thread really belong in the Tech forum?
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: daniel1948 on May 04, 2019, 07:40:46 PM
By the way, doesn't this thread really belong in the Tech forum?

The OP has never posted on the SGU forums before, and so far, has not posted a second time. Probably wasn't familiar with the structure. Or was thinking that the subject is not the tech, but rather how to deal with a tech-phobic family member.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 05, 2019, 04:36:45 AM
By the way, doesn't this thread really belong in the Tech forum?

The OP has never posted on the SGU forums before, and so far, has not posted a second time. Probably wasn't familiar with the structure. Or was thinking that the subject is not the tech, but rather how to deal with a tech-phobic family member.

Yeah, I noticed that.

I was thinking maybe this thread ought to be moved, but on second thought I don't want to be the guy always burdening the mods with trivial requests.
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: PANTS! on May 05, 2019, 09:46:07 AM
Looking for good links to use to explain without jargon to a non-science based family member that 5G cell phones or 5G smart devices are not capable of being weaponized in the way she's afraid.

Unfortunately, it might be a problem.  Not that they can be set to explode or somesuch, but that they are rife for exploitation by foreign powers who are (potentially) setting up the network, and building the hardware.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/11/702355542/the-race-is-on-for-control-of-5g-wireless-communications-and-china-is-in-the-lea

Quote
Well, Huawei really is China. You can think of it that way. And China, through its Belt Road Initiative and its other industrial policies, is planning to connect most homes to fiber and advanced wireless. And also, more than 80 countries and 65 percent of the world's population is touched by the Belt Road Initiative, which will include fiber and advanced wireless. Huawei is a big part of that story.

And the risk from the American point of view is that if China can control or influence all of that, it means all the elements of the information services supply chain from data transport to what apps can be used, as Secretary Pompeo mentions, to the analytics and artificial intelligence apply to those apps for advertising and very targeted locational services, that will all be in China's hands.

Mainly because we have forgotten the value of government intervention.

Beyond cyber-weaponization, there is also the problem with no net neutrality and customer exploitation that 5g tech enables:

https://www.wired.com/story/china-will-likely-corner-5g-market-us-no-plan/

Quote
A crucial element of 5G is to give wireless companies the ability to monetize their services more effectively, to ensure they’ll never again be treated like "dumb pipes" by online businesses they don't control. For carriers or network providers, the great advance of 5G is “network slicing,” which will allow carriers to create, on the fly, multiple customized virtual private networks for particular customers or applications. This will create a high-priced, services-based, perfectly-billed-for ecosystem that’s very different from the 4G world.

In effect, each 5G carrier will be able to define its network from moment to moment, charge whatever it wants for heavily marketed levels of service differentiation, and act as a gatekeeper for applications seeking entry. This allows for unlimited pricing power and deeply undermines the internet protocol’s basic premise—that any computer could speak to another using the same basic language. Instead, transport of bits will be completely software-defined and virtualized: Think proprietary cable network instead of internet access.

So 5g will likely be "weaponized" against consumers.


Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Shibboleth on May 06, 2019, 12:53:54 PM
It does look like adding 5g changes the design quite a bit.

(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/56cbeec8287997813f287995de67747ba5e101d5/c=9-0-1280-718/local/-/media/2016/03/30/Phoenix/Phoenix/635949466344266217-IdealConceal1.jpg?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop)
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Beef Wellington on May 07, 2019, 08:46:38 PM
Kindly ask her to disregard anything found on Natural News or Infowars-

"...5G deploying as a weapon system... Finally today, see the first video below which explains how 5G wireless technology can be used as a directional weapon system to target and even execute certain individuals living within the range of 5G."

-Mike Adams, 33rd Degree Wingnut
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 07, 2019, 10:05:25 PM
Kindly ask her to disregard anything found on Natural News or Infowars-

"...5G deploying as a weapon system... Finally today, see the first video below which explains how 5G wireless technology can be used as a directional weapon system to target and even execute certain individuals living within the range of 5G."

-Mike Adams, 33rd Degree Wingnut

So that's where the "weapons" idea came from?!?
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Beef Wellington on May 08, 2019, 02:55:16 AM
Kindly ask her to disregard anything found on Natural News or Infowars-

"...5G deploying as a weapon system... Finally today, see the first video below which explains how 5G wireless technology can be used as a directional weapon system to target and even execute certain individuals living within the range of 5G."

-Mike Adams, 33rd Degree Wingnut

So that's where the "weapons" idea came from?!?

I’m sure there are others, anyone in the “alternative” or truther-spheres mainly, who couldn't wait to call 5G dangerous. The weaponization of everyday/benign occurrences are mainly pushed by the Alex Jones types. Unfortunately there are millions of people who hang on his/their every word so explaining how things like radiation works can be an uphill battle. It’s hard enough talking about the effectiveness of a flu shot without someone parroting how it’s actually a race-based, binary bioweapon that kills you when your late-50s hormones kick in and trigger the dormant toxins living in your bloodstream. Alex Jones has said this more than once. And people listen...
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: John Albert on May 08, 2019, 06:24:07 AM
It’s hard enough talking about the effectiveness of a flu shot without someone parroting how it’s actually a race-based, binary bioweapon that kills you when your late-50s hormones kick in and trigger the dormant toxins living in your bloodstream. Alex Jones has said this more than once. And people listen...

The flip-side of that is the assertion that the statistical rise in previously dormant pathogens is the old canard that immigrants are bringing it in. That particular bit of nationalist rhetoric actually predates the Nazis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690128/).
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Ah.hell on May 15, 2019, 09:40:37 AM
Found this article posted by the SGU on facebook.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

I have not read it yet but the headline is:
Quote
Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise.

The short version, Russian Today(RT) has been running a bunch of stories about the dangers of 5g.  There doesn't appear to be anything particularly new.   Same scares associated with Cell Phones and other new technology just that its really bad this time for some reason.   It just seems to be Putin's general desire to fuck with the West and the US in particular. 
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Beef Wellington on May 28, 2019, 05:33:53 PM
Found this article posted by the SGU on facebook.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

I have not read it yet but the headline is:
Quote
Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise.

The short version, Russian Today(RT) has been running a bunch of stories about the dangers of 5g.  There doesn't appear to be anything particularly new.   Same scares associated with Cell Phones and other new technology just that its really bad this time for some reason.   It just seems to be Putin's general desire to fuck with the West and the US in particular.

Today's Skeptoid mentions the RT bit along with there being no known mechanism for any harm.

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4677
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: stands2reason on May 28, 2019, 05:43:29 PM
Microwaves are readily absorbed by water. As far as we know, the only thing they do to biology tissue at the broadcasts power we use is heat it up slightly.

The cell radio chipset typically has its own embedded firmware that strictly controls the broadcast power of the device. Technically, this could be hacked to give a cell radio slightly more broadcast power than it should, but not by a large amount, the amplifier in the radio can't generate enough microwaves for you to notice the heat, since we are typically talking about a fraction of a watt, or a couple of watts dispersing in all directions (inverse square law).
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Noisy Rhysling on June 09, 2019, 01:54:36 PM
Captain Picard: "Engage full panic mode, Mr. Data."
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: PANTS! on September 03, 2019, 06:09:38 PM
5G telecommunications networks are beginning to be rolled out in the United States and around the world. We've heard a lot about the national security concerns posed by Chinese companies like Huawei getting a foothold in 5G networks. We're told it is important to win the race to 5G, that China is aggressively deploying 5G technology, and that the United States and the West are lagging behind. But is this the right way to think about the security challenges posed by 5G? What would it really take

* duration: 32:27, Played: 20:50

* Published: 9/3/19 12:00:00 PM

* Episode Download link (45 MB): http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/lawfare/Episode_449.mp3?dest-id=88859

* Show Notes: http://lawfare.libsyn.com/tom-wheeler-on-the-need-for-real-cybersecurity-for-5g

* Episode feed: The Lawfare Podcast - http://lawfare.libsyn.com/rss
Title: Re: 5G cell phones weapons
Post by: Beef Wellington on September 03, 2019, 06:30:41 PM
Saw this breakdown the other day, it's pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEwOAs2Kto