Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 90269 times)

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Online Rai

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1695 on: October 24, 2018, 01:41:19 PM »
How do we reach l the conclusion that someone who is wearing a hairstyle from another culture is doing it for malicious reasons? So far, that has only been done by invoking the racial stereotype that white people are bigoted. Obviously, this is circular reasoning, since it starts with the premise that white people are bigoted, in order to conclude that CA [by white people] qualifies as bigotry.

It is not malice, but privileged ignorance.

And, at least in the US, the majority of white people are in fact bigoted. They were, after all, the only demographic whose majority supported Trump in 2016. That is a very clear indicator of bigotry.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1696 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:47 PM »
Or people could simply be left alone to manage their own business. A white person having a "black hairstyle" doesn't prevent a black person for having that hairstyle.

This sort of discussion is beyond ridiculous.

You're thinking about it backwards. The intended consequence of cultural appropriation sensitivity is to prevent cultural exchange, thus creating more xenophobia.

The Conservatives pretending to be Liberals try to make it sound like adopting anything from another culture is somehow an attack on that culture. So Liberals learn to behave and stick to their culture; in other words, they are making/keeping themselves white in the name of multiculturalism.

Offline RGU

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1697 on: October 24, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »
Or people could simply be left alone to manage their own business. A white person having a "black hairstyle" doesn't prevent a black person for having that hairstyle.

This sort of discussion is beyond ridiculous.

You're thinking about it backwards. The intended consequence of cultural appropriation sensitivity is to prevent cultural exchange, thus creating more xenophobia.

The Conservatives pretending to be Liberals try to make it sound like adopting anything from another culture is somehow an attack on that culture. So Liberals learn to behave and stick to their culture; in other words, they are making/keeping themselves white in the name of multiculturalism.

I agree - pushing CA as a "thing" seems like a backhanded way to create Nationalism and get rid of anyone different - like back in the good ol days when them people stuck to their kind.

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1698 on: October 24, 2018, 01:57:20 PM »


And, at least in the US, the majority of white people are in fact bigoted. They were, after all, the only demographic whose majority supported Trump in 2016. That is a very clear indicator of bigotry.

I wonder what the electoral crosstabs looked like for white folks with dreadlocks.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1699 on: October 24, 2018, 02:04:36 PM »
I agree - pushing CA as a "thing" seems like a backhanded way to create Nationalism and get rid of anyone different - like back in the good ol days when them people stuck to their kind.

I can't tell if the whole "dreadlocks on white people" counts as a thread derailment, or a parody-deconstruction of the idea of CA. But it underscores the point that this has the subtext of Black & White American Race Politics.

If you carried it to its logical conclusion:

South African culture shouldn't be allowed in Britian
Indian culture shouldn't be allowed in Britian or France
When the Congo starts having cultural exports, the Belgians should not be allowed to appropriate.
...and so on.

Offline RGU

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1700 on: October 24, 2018, 02:05:05 PM »


And, at least in the US, the majority of white people are in fact bigoted. They were, after all, the only demographic whose majority supported Trump in 2016. That is a very clear indicator of bigotry.

I wonder what the electoral crosstabs looked like for white folks with dreadlocks.

LOL - I will put money down on... "If they voted, it wasn't for Trump"

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1701 on: October 24, 2018, 02:05:28 PM »
I agree - pushing CA as a "thing" seems like a backhanded way to create Nationalism and get rid of anyone different - like back in the good ol days when them people stuck to their kind.

When people start talking about dreadlocks and tacos, it starts looking like an 'identity politics' reskin of anti-miscegenation.
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Offline RGU

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1702 on: October 24, 2018, 02:14:41 PM »
Real Question - is CA even a "thing" outside of the USA?
Are Nigerian immigrants in Italy complaining about Italians appropriating "something"?
Are there Scots in China complaining about the Chinese using their tartan pattern on something?
I did a quick look for CA outside of the US and the first thing I saw was an opinion from a girl from Iran basically saying "No, they have important things to worry about"
https://www.quora.com/Is-cultural-appropriation-a-problem-outside-of-the-US

Proponents of CA claim it is white privilege that is the cause - maybe it is just US privilege that is making CA a thing at all.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1703 on: October 24, 2018, 02:23:45 PM »
Real Question - is CA even a "thing" outside of the USA?
Are Nigerian immigrants in Italy complaining about Italians appropriating "something"?
Are there Scots in China complaining about the Chinese using their tartan pattern on something?
I did a quick look for CA outside of the US and the first thing I saw was an opinion from a girl from Iran basically saying "No, they have important things to worry about"
https://www.quora.com/Is-cultural-appropriation-a-problem-outside-of-the-US

Proponents of CA claim it is white privilege that is the cause - maybe it is just US privilege that is making CA a thing at all.

Now it's not so much White Guilt as American Guilt. I'm sorry that my culture invented these toxic BS politics. Do yourself a favor and don't culturally appropriate them.  ;)

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1704 on: October 24, 2018, 02:25:10 PM »
Real Question - is CA even a "thing" outside of the USA?

Hardly at all I think. The few times the concept has surfaced here, it has been mostly mocked and ridiculed.

One of the answers in the Quora link sums it up:

Quote
Cultural appropriation isn’t a problem in the U.S. or anywhere on Earth because it’s a stupid concept all together.

:)

I think most non-nationalistic people see value in cultural exchange.

Am I supposed to be outraged over that pretty much every grocery store here has sections for Mexican and Asian (inspired) foods?

Today I ate lunch at a restaurant with both sushi and Thai food. Are the Japanese appropriating Thai culture? Are the Thai appropriating Japanese culture? Is the entire concept of CA stupid?
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Offline random poet

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1705 on: October 24, 2018, 02:38:29 PM »
Real Question - is CA even a "thing" outside of the USA?
Are Nigerian immigrants in Italy complaining about Italians appropriating "something"?
Are there Scots in China complaining about the Chinese using their tartan pattern on something?
I did a quick look for CA outside of the US and the first thing I saw was an opinion from a girl from Iran basically saying "No, they have important things to worry about"
https://www.quora.com/Is-cultural-appropriation-a-problem-outside-of-the-US

Proponents of CA claim it is white privilege that is the cause - maybe it is just US privilege that is making CA a thing at all.
Of course it is not limited to the USA. It is merely less visible in more homogeneous cultures.
The USA is a unique place in terms of cultural integration (and history of oppression), and such sociological issues will become apparent there before they do in other places, and will then be thought about more seriously by the culture at large and by people who study such things. There is of course more pushback from the minority cultures who are victims of that oppression, which also brings attention to the issue.

Actually, nevermind, this is useless.
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Offline stands2reason

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1706 on: October 24, 2018, 02:54:24 PM »

Of course it is not limited to the USA. It is merely less visible in more homogeneous cultures.
The USA is a unique place in terms of cultural integration (and history of oppression), and such sociological issues will become apparent there before they do in other places, and will then be thought about more seriously by the culture at large and by people who study such things. There is of course more pushback from the minority cultures who are victims of that oppression, which also brings attention to the issue.

Actually, nevermind, this is useless.

Aside from CA/CAS — Sociological/socioeconomic or just plain social justice equitability/egalitarianism definitely matters.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 02:58:17 PM by stands2reason »

Offline John Albert

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1707 on: October 24, 2018, 05:29:56 PM »
Sounds like you want to punish the white folks who love black culture for the actions taken by other white folks who hate it.

White people: simultaneously repressing black culture and also consuming it.

I think a more reasonable assessment would be that some white people are responsible for repressing black culture, while other white people are trying to celebrate it.

"White people" are not a homogeneous entity, any more than any other demographic group. Reducing a population down to a stereotype is always problematic.

Offline stands2reason

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1708 on: October 24, 2018, 05:50:21 PM »
Reducing a population down to a stereotype is always problematic.


Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1709 on: October 24, 2018, 06:30:00 PM »
There really ought be a requirement of harm.
In order to count as the bad kind of appropriation? Yes.