Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 93661 times)

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Offline D4M10N

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some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #465 on: April 13, 2017, 02:44:16 PM »
The tribalism is what gets me the most. It is difficult to envision how sending the message that white people should stick to doing white people things (no locs, no braids, no hoops, no tribal ink unless it's Celtic) is going to somehow lead to racial reconciliation and equality in the long term. Or anything good, for that matter.

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« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 02:47:37 PM by D4M10N »

Offline D4M10N

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some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #466 on: April 13, 2017, 02:45:43 PM »
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Offline D4M10N

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some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #467 on: April 13, 2017, 02:46:45 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 02:49:48 PM by D4M10N »

Offline D4M10N

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some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #468 on: April 13, 2017, 02:49:23 PM »
But maybe there is an upside to rigorously policing other folks' self-expression.

I'm going to watch that MTV educational video again, just in case.

Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #469 on: April 13, 2017, 03:50:02 PM »
The tribalism is what gets me the most. It is difficult to envision how sending the message that white people should stick to doing white people things (no locs, no braids, no hoops, no tribal ink unless it's Celtic) is going to somehow lead to racial reconciliation and equality in the long term. Or anything good, for that matter.

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Because in order for white folks to think that racial reconciliation is important, people of color have to be nice to them?

Because it's SO important to make sure that white people get to do whatever they want, it doesn't matter if other people get hurt in the process?
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Offline RGU

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #470 on: April 13, 2017, 03:55:40 PM »
OK, so I read this whole thread... yes it took forever.
So, in short cultural appropriation is when the Dominate culture "steals" cultural ideas from the Marginalized culture and uses them.
Right?
However, everything I have read appears from a very American (as in USA) view.
Do the people who have an issue with this appropriation also feel the same when it occurs in other countries and what happens when people cross country lines?

For example (using the hoop earrings)
A white girl should not wear them because they belong to Latinas (or black girls, whichever) because the white girl is in the Dominate culture.
So if that white girl moves to Peru, then she is allowed to wear hoop earring as she is no longer Dominate, but now the Marginalized culture.
And the Peruvian girls should stop wearing, i don't know... leggings? You know because that is a white girl thing.
So now that the girl who moved is allowed to wear hoop earrings, if she moves back to the US 10 years later, is she required to give up the hoop earrings again?

What if this girl was born in Peru because her white parents from Detroit lived there and she lived there for 18 years before going to the US. Who's culture is she part of and what does she get to wear?

This whole thing appears needlessly confusing. Especially since those judging the "appropriator" do not know the background of the person.

Offline D4M10N

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some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #471 on: April 13, 2017, 03:56:09 PM »
The tribalism is what gets me the most. It is difficult to envision how sending the message that white people should stick to doing white people things (no locs, no braids, no hoops, no tribal ink unless it's Celtic) is going to somehow lead to racial reconciliation and equality in the long term. Or anything good, for that matter.

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Because in order for white folks to think that racial reconciliation is important, people of color have to be nice to them?

Because it's SO important to make sure that white people get to do whatever they want, it doesn't matter if other people get hurt in the process?

No, not because either of those things. Rather, because it reinforces the pernicious idea that people need to stick to their own race/culture instead of branching out and enjoying what others have to offer.

EDIT: Get hurt?

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« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 03:59:49 PM by D4M10N »

Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #472 on: April 13, 2017, 04:00:57 PM »
OK, so I read this whole thread... yes it took forever.
So, in short cultural appropriation is when the Dominate culture "steals" cultural ideas from the Marginalized culture and uses them.
Right?
However, everything I have read appears from a very American (as in USA) view.
Do the people who have an issue with this appropriation also feel the same when it occurs in other countries and what happens when people cross country lines?

For example (using the hoop earrings)
A white girl should not wear them because they belong to Latinas (or black girls, whichever) because the white girl is in the Dominate culture.
So if that white girl moves to Peru, then she is allowed to wear hoop earring as she is no longer Dominate, but now the Marginalized culture.
And the Peruvian girls should stop wearing, i don't know... leggings? You know because that is a white girl thing.
So now that the girl who moved is allowed to wear hoop earrings, if she moves back to the US 10 years later, is she required to give up the hoop earrings again?

What if this girl was born in Peru because her white parents from Detroit lived there and she lived there for 18 years before going to the US. Who's culture is she part of and what does she get to wear?

This whole thing appears needlessly confusing. Especially since those judging the "appropriator" do not know the background of the person.

As with all things, context and nuance matter. Also the onus is on the "appropriator," not to do it. If you are insensitively appropriating, as with all social faux pas, you are going to get judged.

Edit: additional thoughts. I am mixed-race. I look white but I am half Indian. I am very aware of the fact that if I wear traditional Indian clothing that I look like I'm appropriating it, even though it is, at some level, authentic to my heritage. That said, choices have to be made. I know how it would look and I don't do it. This is not how everyone *does* or *should* act who is "white-passing," which is an extremely complicated topic in and unto itself. You also have to realize to some extent how you are being seen, but you are also allowed to make authentic choices for yourself. It is, and it is allowed to be nuanced and complicated.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 05:11:40 PM by 6EQUJ5 »
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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #473 on: April 13, 2017, 04:08:34 PM »
The tribalism is what gets me the most. It is difficult to envision how sending the message that white people should stick to doing white people things (no locs, no braids, no hoops, no tribal ink unless it's Celtic) is going to somehow lead to racial reconciliation and equality in the long term. Or anything good, for that matter.

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Because in order for white folks to think that racial reconciliation is important, people of color have to be nice to them?

Because it's SO important to make sure that white people get to do whatever they want, it doesn't matter if other people get hurt in the process?

No, not because either of those things. Rather, because it reinforces the pernicious idea that people need to stick to their own race/culture instead of branching out and enjoying what others have to offer.

EDIT: Get hurt?

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It's pernicious to whom? Cultural appropriation is pernicious to people of color. How are you in a position to say that less harm is perpetuated by the continuation of misappropriated culture because white folks wearing hoops and braids is what... curing racism?
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #474 on: April 13, 2017, 04:22:41 PM »
It should be easy enough to see why it is pernicious to encourage white folks to stick to their own. If the folks at Stormfront are nodding along, you may well be heading down the wrong road. If the norms you are propagating play into the hands of ethno-nationalists, you need to seriously rethink those norms.


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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #475 on: April 13, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »
It should be easy enough to see why it is pernicious to encourage white folks to stick to their own. If the folks at Stormfront are nodding along, you may well be heading down the wrong road. If the norms you are propagating play into the hands of ethno-nationalists, you need to seriously rethink those norms.


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Nobody is saying this. People are just telling white folks to stop misappropriating culture.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #476 on: April 13, 2017, 04:32:18 PM »
How is that substantially different than telling them to stick to white folks' stuff?


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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #477 on: April 13, 2017, 04:50:03 PM »
How is that substantially different than telling them to stick to white folks' stuff?


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I don't know how many times we have to explain nuance and context here. By all means support restaurants of other cultures, make friends with people from other cultures, be respectful and go to museums and travel and read. Just don't take things that aren't your culture and parade them around without giving credit in contexts where people of that culture can't do those things because they are oppressed for it. Why is that such a problem? It's a bare minimum of decency and respect. Nobody HAS to be respectful, if you want to be crappy, be crappy.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #478 on: April 13, 2017, 04:59:58 PM »
Imagine a white woman named (hypothetically) Nikki, who is told by her (hypothetical) black friends where to go to get some braids done on her frizzy red hair. Must she refrain from doing so on pain of being disrespectful and crappy? Asking for a hypothetical friend.

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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #479 on: April 13, 2017, 05:07:52 PM »
Imagine a white woman named (hypothetically) Nikki, who is told by her (hypothetical) black friends where to go to get some braids done on her frizzy red hair. Must she refrain from doing so on pain of being disrespectful and crappy? Asking for a hypothetical friend.

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This scenario is suuuper unlikely, but yes, she should. Her black friends don't speak for the entire black community and she should be aware that going around with her hair in braids is going to be hurtful.

That said, why is the pain of being called disrespctful or crappy such a big deal? Isn't it worse to think that you might actually be hurting someone? Why can't a person err on the side of not being hurtful? Why are people in this thread working so hard to reserve the right for white folks to continue (mis)appropriating culture without being called out on it?
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